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Where did the water come from??????

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Major, Sep 9, 2015.

  1. Genesis 1:1-2
    "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
    The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters."

    I do this in order to provoke and stimulate your thinking and your conversation and not in anyway to argue with anyone. First and foremost I am Creationist. IMO, evolution is the silliest explanation ever devised to explain why we are here..........again, IMO.

    However there is a quandary. Here it is..........
    When we take the chronological record of the Scriptures and go backwards to Adam and Eve we come to just about 6000 years of recorded time for humanity and life.

    Now then. When you speak with people and you are sharing the good news of Jesus Christ, how do you answer their question of............
    "Since recorded time is 6ooo years old, how do you explain the presence of animal and human bones and artifacts that are dated 1 million or a billion years ago??? "

    Now before you post your answer, look again at the verse posted to begin this thread in verse #2.
    "And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters."

    Before
    day one and before any creation activity, there was water on the earth.
    Shouldn't water be one of the thing God created?
    So then because it is not said to be that way.........Where did the water come from?????

    Many years ago, several Biblical scholars came up with a theology called the "Gap Theory" to answer this paradox. It says that there was a creation before Genesis 1:1 and the water seen in verse two is from the judgment on that life which was tainted by Satan. The animals and dinosaurs we are finding now was from that 1st creation.

    Then in Genesis 1:1, 6000 years ago is the 7 day 24 hour a day creation we now live in.

    What are your thoughts????

    Now remember........I am not supporting this "Gap Theory" just asking you for your thoughts.

    Where did the water come from????
     
  2. Lets examine these verses:

    This was God's initial act of creation. Notice He created the heavens and the earth. IMO what He created here was the framework.

    And in this verse, God describes the condition of the earth before He began His creative work in the following verses. Note the Spirit is hovering while awaiting orders to carry out God's commands.

    To answer your question, the water is part of the basic framework which God is about to use.

    BTW, I also do not believe in evolution.
     
    Cturtle likes this.
  3. First, I have thought a lot about the light of Genesis. Light by definition contains but a fraction of what we call visible light. In fact, the proper use of the word would be energy. I see that God created the parts atoms, like "legos" (for a lack of better easy-to-understand form), strewn on a table, or in this case something called "time". Darkness... no energy. Then the Holy Spirit brooded (the actual Hebrew meaning of the word moved). He moved upon the face of the waters - you can't breathe underwater and you can't breathe in space. Water is just "H2O" atoms... which are the first and third most abundant atoms in the universe (I know it's not exact, but this is just an attempt to understand the narrative given with what we know today). To brood is to flutter, to move, to make change, and the Holy Spirit cause the energy to exist getting the subatomic parts to come to be what they are and created atoms. And then God said "Let there be light" as energy. This energy created everything until the 4th day when the Sun, visible light was made. The biggest "thing" created was what scientists call "dark energy"! It really is all written in the word of God! It'sinteresting that the terms "Day" and "Night" were coined right then and there without the sun and moon and stars! Today, we see things in the heavens (day) and yet we see the effects of something unseen we call dark matter (night)! See how accurate the word of God is when it took almost 6000 years to even realized the "night" existed without being able to "see" it!

    So to my thinking water is just the term God used to describe helium, hydrogen, and oxygen atoms being strewn on the creation table and the Spirit brooded over them to get the electrons going...besides how could you explain that to ignorant man in terms we'd understand?

    God is so loving and so awesome to have spelled it all out for us, learning about it is just a blessing! To me, God spoke the truth and it's only in the last 75 years we've been able to understand it. :) Just my thoughts.
     
    KingJ, Big Moose, Major and 1 other person say Amen and like this.
  4. I like Abdicate's response.. Formless and void is probably not just describing the shape or dimensions of earth.. I don't know what they call it. The metaphysical condition of earth? That is the compounds are not formed in a fashion for it to become water or land. They are still formless, probably as particles - helium, oxygen, hydrogen and so on.. I strongly tend to agree with this because of the way second day creation activities are explained

    6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. 8 And God called the expanse Heaven.

    Here we see water under and waters above. The term heaven here is referring to celestial space and not the heaven where angels reside. I believe heaven and angels were created in verse 1. Here the sky and celestial space is also called water. Probably the term celestial space was too advanced :D So it is simply being termed as water. Probably the same thing is applicable in verse 1 also. May be water was created in second day?
     
    Abdicate likes this.
  5. Hello there, Major,

    I have heard a great deal of speculation surrounding Genesis 1:1,2. I have listened to the evidence provided, regarding the wording of verse two, and read the Scriptural comparisons that have been given to support the opinion that the earth 'became' without form and void, that it was not created that way, etc., That the words translated 'without form and void' are used elsewhere in Scripture only within the context of judgement (Jere.4:23), which would imply that a judgement of God took place which produced the conditions of verse two, and that the creative process described in the verses subsequently, were part of a redemptive purpose.

    All of that may be so, but I would not enter into debate about it, or speculate concerning it.

    @Abdicate and @Ravindran have spoken about the waters 'below' and 'above' the firmament called, 'heaven', which God created, my thoughts are there too, Praise God! I shall watch the progress of this thread with interest.

    Thank you.
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Major likes this.
  6. Science doesn't explain away the scriptures but the scriptures do enlighten science. Creation is just like man making a building in that you create a space, gather the materials and call in the helpers to being the construction and after a time the building is complete. This process is spelled out exactly this way in Genesis 1:2.

    *[[Gen 1:2]] KJV* And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

    Time and space were created (earth without form and void - no shape, just raw materials) and no activity, workers aka energy (darkness on the deep). Then the Helper came and stirred up the energy - workers showing up on a construction site. Again the waters are the elements within the void - the void of space. Then the Lord spoke that which didn't exist as though it did and it was so. The great Architect directed the building - aka creation.

    The first two verses of the word of God hold everything within those words, literally. The plan of salvation, the Son from the Father, even the formula of everything including the value of Pi (yes, 3.14!) If all we had were these two verses we could still glean Who God is and what His plan is for man. But you cannot obtain this except though the Hebrew and the Holy Spirit.
     
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  7. 'And the earth
    was without form, and void;
    and darkness
    was upon the face of the deep.
    And the Spirit of God
    moved upon the face of the waters.'

    (Gen 1:2)

    Hi @Abdicate,

    Regarding Genesis 1:2, please compare Isaiah 45:18, where the word translated, 'without form' comes again, but translated, ' in vain'. (Tohu)

    'For thus saith the LORD
    that created the heavens;
    God Himself
    that formed the earth and made it;
    He hath established it,
    He created it not in vain,
    He formed it to be inhabited:
    I am the LORD;
    and there is none else.'


    * Here it says that God did not create the earth
    'tohu', or, 'in vain', He did not create it so: so it must have become so, don't you think? Especially in the light of the fact that the word, 'was', in Gen. 1:2, is a translation of the verb, 'to be, or become'.

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Major likes this.
  8. This ruin-reconstruction view is what is being touted as the "Gap Theory. Again, I am not advocating it only putting it out there for discussion.

    There have been many attempts over the years to harmonize the Genesis account of creation with accepted geology (and its teaching of billions of years for the age of the earth).”

    The gap theory was another attempt by Christian theologians to reconcile the time scale of world history found in Genesis with the popular belief that geologists provide “undeniable” evidence that the world is exceedingly old - billions of years so that the existence of dinosaur bones can be explained.

    The basic reason for developing and promoting the gap theory can be seen from the following very telling quotes:

    Scofield Study Bible:
    Relegate fossils to the primitive creation, and no conflict of science with the Genesis cosmogony remains.

    Dake's Annotated Reference Bible:
    When men finally agree on the age of the earth, then place the many years (over the historical 6,000) between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2, there will be no conflict between the Book of Genesis and science.
     
  9. Just playing the advocate here..........
    Why does the Scripture have water on the earth before God began His creative work? I hear what you are saying but the Scriptures do not say that the water was part of the void. The actual words place the water on the earth in chapter #2 and then God creates and not actually part of a void or darkness.

    Then if what you state is true, then Noah would have had to place dinosaurs on the Ark wouldn't he???
     
    KingJ likes this.
  10. I agree brother, but do you see the problem?? What you are saying is speculation because that is not what the Scriptures actually say.
     
  11. Could the light also be the glory of the Lord Jesus??? He will light the universe as seen in Revelation 22 so why not the same thing in Genesis 1:1-2?
     
    Softly likes this.
  12. Absolutely.. I am not going to put my foot down and say everyone else is wrong.. Even though I am always correct! :D

    LOL! Jokes apart, there are certain elements in the Bible which remains mystery.. Probably it will always be a mystery.. Actually things that are not explained in detail are the stuff that scientists go crazy trying to figure out.. And come up with theories which does not make sense! To this day man has no idea how water came to earth.. And no idea how everything came into place.. How life itself came..

    We believe God spoke everything into existence. We don't try to explain how. The response of God to Job comes to my mind. Job 38
     
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  13. Hi Chris,

    I know you addressed this to Abdicate, but if its ok i would like to offer my 2 cents worth :). As i looked up the passage in Isaiah the word tôhû means to lie waste or desolate, or an empty place. So its not that He didn't create it, He didn't create it formless or empy. He created it with all it needed to become what He wanted it to be. Like @HisManySongs said it was part of the framework or foundation of what was to come.

    Blessings
     
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  14. Scripture tells us God Is Light for one thing.
    I believe the first light spoke of was God or the Power of God

    Now then I have often wondered about this. People tend to look at on day one and then to day two as 24 hours - However scritpture does tell us a day with the Lord is like a 1000 years to us. I dont know maybe it is me but there is a lot of 7's in the bible and 7 thousand years and so forth. God rested on the seventh day.....with this silly thinken of mine well God rested after 6,000 years of work... rofl..... hey it aint my fault......i blame it on the big chocolate frozen custard filled stick donut thinga ma bob I just inhailed.... :confused:
    Seriously though........God is Light and I believe the earth was lit up with His Glory and then the sun light.
    BlEsSiNgS jIm those are not caps......just the roller coaster sugar rush i be on.
    beddy night night
    mij
     
    Softly likes this.
  15. Good thought. The number 7 in Scripture represents "Completeness".
     
  16. Not trying to be a smart aleck but what word would you choose for atoms which were not discovered for almost 5000 years? The most abundant atoms in the universe, in order, are hydrogen, helium, and oxygen. And helium was first discovered in the sun's spectrum before here on earth. Since no suns existed at this time, remove helium and you have hydrogen and oxygen. Water is H2O which is about the ratio of atoms in the universe: four times as many hydrogen than oxygen. So when the word of God said the spirit moved upon the waters, that's exactly what He did. Water is not just liquid, but solid and vapor as well as single molecule. Besides all that, God spoke what which was not seen as though they were and they became visible, the very definition of faith in Heb 11:1. Take what you know as fact, the word of God, and the facts of what we've discovered and you'll see how very accurate the word of God is.
     
    Cturtle likes this.
  17. Rabbit trail to say the least... A scientist wanted to see what would happen to fish and plants with double the atmosphere...they quadrupled in size... Single words from the word of God through the study of His creation explains it all. You can believe the word of God and you can study it, but you'll be left with just believing it. Go out and study His creation and you'll find the exact words of the word of God are precise and perfect and after the discovery of atoms (things not seen) cross into the spiritual world. Scientists have even discovered faith! Tangible faith!
     
  18. Indeed He is!

    *[[Col 1:17]] KJV* And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

    Consist means:
    to place together, to set in the same place, to bring or band together​

    Jesus is that very Light in Genesis 1:3 and is the Thing that holds all the atoms together. The spoken Word became Flesh.
     
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  19. Exactly. What is any construction site before the finished product, without form and void.
     
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  20. Exactly... Nothing was there. Verse two is written as a parenthetical of verse one, which is God's thesis statement. :) I do not believe in the gap theory and the Hebrew grammar bears this out. Verses two to thirty-one explain what happened in verse one.
     

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