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When does the Antichrist power show itself?

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Hobie, May 30, 2010.

  1. When does the Antichrist power show itself?

    So what shows us who and when does the Antichrist power show itself? Lets look in scripture and let it unveil what it has:
    Lets take a look at 2 Thessalonians 2:7

    2 Thessalonians 2:7King James Version (KJV)
    For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

    2 Thessalonians 2:7 (New International Version)
    7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.

    2 Thessalonians 2:7 (New Living Translation)
    7 For this lawlessness is already at work secretly, and it will remain secret until the one who is holding it back steps out of the way

    So what is this mystery of iniquity, this lawlessness already at work secretly, and what is holding it back. Well lets start with the power holding it back:


    For more than 500 years, half a millennium, Rome was invincible. Its laws and legions stretched out from Rome and crushed those who would challenge it, but it too finally faded and it stopped holding back what prophecy had foretold.

    Geneva Study Bible


    (7) He foretells that when the empire of Rome is taken away, the seat that falls away from God will succeed and hold its place, as the old writers, Tertullian, Chrysostom, and Jerome explain and interpret it... He who is now in authority and rules all, that is, the Roman Empire



    2:7He will surely be revealed; for the mystery - The deep, secret power of iniquity, just opposite to the power of godliness, already worketh. It began with the love of honour, and the desire of power; and is completed in the entire subversion of the gospel of Christ. This mystery of iniquity is not wholly confined to the Romish church, but extends itself to others also. It seems to consist of,
    Human inventions added to the written word.
    Mere outside performances put in the room of faith and love.
    Other mediators besides the man Christ Jesus.
    The two last branches, together with idolatry and bloodshed, are the direct consequences of the former; namely, the adding to the word of God. Already worketh - In the church. Only he that restraineth - That is, the potentate who successively has Rome in his power. The emperors, heathen or Christian; the kings, Goths or Lombards; the Carolingian or German emperors.




    Wesley's Explanatory Notes

    2:7 He will surely be revealed; for the mystery - The deep, secret power of iniquity, just opposite to the power of godliness, already worketh. It began with the love of honour, and the desire of power; and is completed in the entire subversion of the gospel of Christ. This mystery of iniquity is not wholly confined to the Romish church, but extends itself to others also. It seems to consist of, Human inventions added to the written word. Mere outside performances put in the room of faith and love. Other mediators besides the man Christ Jesus. The two last branches, together with idolatry and bloodshed, are the direct consequences of the former; namely, the adding to the word of God. Already worketh - In the church. Only he that restraineth - That is, the potentate who successively has Rome in his power. The emperors, heathen or Christian; the kings, Goths or Lombards; the Carolingian or German emperors.


    Jerome (347–420): "Says the apostle [Paul in the second epistle to the Thessalonians], ‘Unless the Roman Empire should first be desolated, and antichrist proceed, Christ will not come.’"

    So what is this mystery:

    Revelation 17:5,9
    5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
    9And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

    In the day of the Apostle John, the city of Rome was famed for its situation of encompassing seven hills, i.e., Capitolinus, Palatinus, Aventinus, Esquilinus, Coelius, Viminalis, and Quirinalis, as noticed by Virgil, Horace, Ovid, Claudian, Starius, Martial, and others.

    The mystery of Babylon had been a power which brought corruption of man and lawlessness. It had been known more by what it did to deceive and substitute itself above God, but Paul now begins to point it out and tells others.

    2 Thessalonians 2:3
    Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


    So the man of sin, the son of perdition is being held back, but what is this exactly. In John 17:12 we see the name:
    John 17:12
    While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.



    But Paul is not talking about Judas as he is already gone from the scene, so it must be the evil which comes into men. That which seeks to be like God and fights against Christ, a antichrist power. The word Antichrist occurs only five times and only in the books of 1st and 2nd John.
    1 John 2:18-22 – He is antichrist that denies Jesus is Christ. In John’s time there were many antichrists and he says they went out from them (the Church) but were not of them or they would have continued with them. This tells us the Antichrist came from God’s true Church but they went out on their own.
    1 John 4:1-3 – Test the Spirits. Every spirit that denies Jesus came in the flesh is the spirit of antichrist.
    2 John 1-11 – Those that deny Jesus came in the flesh are a deceiver and antichrist.
    Antichrist = “against or in place of Christ”, attacking Christ’s character (Gnosticism), specifically with regard to love expressed in obedience to God’s Ten Commandments.
    Satan seduced Eve with the bait of becoming "like the most High" (Isaiah 14:14) in "knowing good and evil" (Genesis 3:5). "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil" (3:5). What Satan failed to tell Eve, was the result of eating of the fruit that God had forbidden. "But of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (Genesis 2:17)

    Satan keeps putting into mans minds that they shall be like gods if they follow what he says, and he tries everything to get them to see themselves as worthy to be worshipped and with power to change what God has given mankind. Thus the Antichrist becomes what gets power from evil to go against Christ and take worship that does not belong to it.

    The power that gives rise to the the Antichrist has always been at enmity with those that follow God.
    "Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God" (James 4:4).

    Why does the Antichrist power have such animosity to God?

    "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the Law of God, neither indeed can be" (Romans 8:7).

    For the carnal mind, Gods Law will be odious; and, the Antichrist will continue to persuade the masses of the indispensability of self-love, without the slightest hint of the necessity of seeking, trusting, loving, and obeying the Living God.

    "Thou art worthy, O LORD, to receive glory and honour and power: for Thou hast created all things, and for Thy pleasure they are and were created" (Revelation 4:11).

    The bible identifies and shows us what it is and what will happen, you just have to have a ear that hears..
    Revelation 13 (King James Version)


    1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
    2And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
    3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
    4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
    5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
    6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
    7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


    ...and eyes that see what the scriptures have which indentifies the AntiChrist power, and it comes right after the Roman Empire....
     
  2. I'd say the beast takes on many "faces"

    it has seven heads .. so who knows which one is leading it right now ;)
     
  3. Scripture tells us, the Antichrist power tries to take over Christ place as Lord of Lords, King of Kings, and tries to say it is infallible and all men must follow it, and they have the power to keep you from heaven, and put other another intermediatary in place of Christ and tell people to pray to it not Christ. THere is only one power who has done this...

    Lets see what we can find in scripture, as the word Antichrist occurs only five times and only in the books of 1st and 2nd John.

    1 John 2:18-22 – He is antichrist that denies Jesus is Christ. In John’s time there were many antichrists and he says they went out from them (the Church) but were not of them or they would have continued with them. This tells us the Antichrist came from God’s true Church but they went out on their own.
    1 John 4:1-3 – Test the Spirits. Every spirit that denies Jesus came in the flesh is the spirit of antichrist.
    2 John 1-11 – Those that deny Jesus came in the flesh are a deceiver and antichrist.
    Antichrist = “against or in place of Christ”, attacking Christ’s character (Gnosticism), specifically with regard to love expressed in obedience to God’s Ten Commandments.
    What is one method Satan uses to “deny” Christ?
    2 Corinthians 11:3-4, 13-15 – Appear as “apostles of Christ” but preach a “different Jesus”

    Now lets see if the Bible give us a another way to identify who is the Antichrist, Daniel also shows the line of prophecy?
    Look at Daniel 2 to get a prophetic blueprint of history: Babylon ??> Medo-Persia ??> Greece ??> Rome ??> 10 Divisions of Rome ??...

    The Antichrist comes after Imperial Rome and Daniel gives a better description, so who had power.........

    So now lets look at Daniel 7:1-8 – Daniel’s vision of four beasts:
    The Lion - Babylon. Wings represent conquering speed. King Nebuchadnezzar.
    The Bear - Medo-Persia. One shoulder raised above the other represents the dominance of the Medes over the Persians. The three ribs represent the three kingdoms overthrown by this kingdom - Egypt, Lydia, and Babylon. (Daniel 8:20)
    The Leopard - Greece. Four wings representing great conquering speed. The four heads represent Alexander the Great’s four generals who ruled Greece after his death – Seleucus, Ptolemy, Lysimachus and Cassander. (Daniel 8:21-22)
    The different beast - Rome.

    And then the ten horns - the divisions of Rome (Same as the toes of Daniel 2) The ten horns are the 10 divisions of the Roman Empire as it fell apart. These were the Anglo Saxons (England), Alemanni (Germany), Heruli (x493AD), Vandals (x534AD), Ostrogoths (x538AD), Visigoths (Spain), Suevi (Portugal), Lombard’s (Italy), Burgundians (Swiss) and the Franks (France).

    Daniel shows a little horn that has the same blasphemous characterics which the Antichrist has, they are the same power. So where does the Antichrist power which is represented by the little horn come out...

    Location: out of 4th beast and among the ten horns (verse 8 ) - The Papacy arose out of Rome among the ten tribal divisions of Rome

    Timing: after the ten were established (verse 8 ) - the Papacy became a political power by decree of the Roman emperor Justinian in AD 538 which was after the emergence of the ten tribal divisions that emerged as the Roman Empire fell apart in AD 476.

    Uprooted three of the ten horns (verse 8 ) - As the Papacy came to prominence, it influenced Pagan Roman armies to destroy three of the tribes which opposed its Christian doctrines. These three were the Vandals, Ostrogoths, and Heruli. The last of these was destroyed in AD 538 when Justinian’s decree went into effect.

    Eyes and mouth of a man (verse 8 ) - the Papacy has a man as its visible head.
    Persecutes the saints (verse 21, 25) - Everyone knows of the Papal persecution during the dark ages - Inquisition, etc.
    Different from the other ten horns (verse 24) - the Papacy was a religio-political entity different from the kingdoms before it.

    Speak out against God (verse 8, 11, 20, 25) - Verse 8 says it will utter boastful or blasphemous things. One quote of many like it from Prompta Bibliothea Canonica Juridicia Moralis Theologica appearing in the Catholic Encyclopedia Volume VI, pp. 25-29, “The Pope is of so great dignity, and so exalted, that he is not a mere man, but as it were, God and the Vicar of God. The Pope is, as it were, God on earth, chief king of kings, having plentitude of power.”

    Antichrist/Little Horn attempts to change God’s times and laws (verse 25) - The Papacy deleted the second commandment of the Decalogue on idolatry, changed the Sabbath to Sunday in favour of sun worship and divided the tenth commandment on coveting into two parts to get back to Ten Commandments.

    Claiming to be God on earth is not the only criterion for blasphemy. Luke 5:21 reads, “And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?” Today the Roman Catholic Church still alleges that every Priest can forgive sins.

    “Seek where you will, through heaven and earth, and you will find but one created being who can forgive the sinner...That extraordinary being is the priest the Catholic priest.” — Michael Muller, The Catholic Priest, page 78.

    “To pardon a single sin requires all the omnipotence of God...The Jews justly said: ‘Who can forgive sins but God alone?’ But what only GOD can do by His omnipotence, the PRIEST can ALSO do by saying ‘Ego te absolvo a peccatis tuis’ [I absolve you from your sin].” — Alphonsus de Liguori, Dignity and Duties of the Priest, pages 34-35.

    If we list the main characteristics of Antichrist, the following becomes readily apparent and who is the Antichrist power becomes unmistakable.

    It will rise to be a great power after the fall of the pagan Roman Empire (after 476 AD)
    It would uproot three of the ten kingdoms the Roman Empire collapsed into
    It will be a geographically small nation (a little horn)
    It will rule over many people, nations and tongues (it will be universal)
    It will be headquartered in the city of seven hills, Rome
    It will be a religio-political entity - a political city-state ruled by a priest-king
    Its priest-king will make great and blasphemous claims
    It will claim authority over all kings
    It will claim its power to change the holy times and laws of God as its mark of authority
    It will be an apostate Church that makes the nations drink her cup of apostate doctrine
    It will be a “mother” Church, with apostate daughters coming from her
    It will be a persecuting power, killing the faithful saints of Jesus Christ as heretics

    The scripture shows us that the Antichrist not merely a single individual, it was a power, a system of apostasy that is controlled by man, and does not represent Christ as its actions show...


    So for those who have ears and hear, the scripture lays it out....
     
  4. The scripture tells us he won't show up until the whole church falls away and the darkness by consequence leads to the rise of the man of sin . and then Jesus comes and destroys him by the sword of His mouth and the brightness of His coming .

    the same letter said to not be alarmed by sudden reports . and to not pay attention to alarmists .. like at all .

    if the antichrist rises . it is a bad thing for the world . but for us it is exceeding good news . Jesus is coming back . real soon after that .

    the reason for eschatology as with all mandates of God who is love .. is to cast out all fear .

    as Paul said .. we are to comfort one another with these words .

    and for those who have eyes to see . the scripture lays it out how scripture is to be used .
     
  5. what you're posting sounds very similar to something i read in the rules

    Members may not post:
    4. Messages which elevate one Christian belief system over another. This is demeaning and belittling the beliefs of other Christians while promoting another system so as to create an atmosphere of superiority.
     
  6. satan plays both sides,he slaps you with 1 hand and comforts you with the other,blameing God for the slap.he also can manipulate others to see devils and justify there actions as Godly,when infact they have become devils themselves.people will do most things if its justified,so he makes it look a just cause.the primary thing you need to look out for is this,at the end people are judged.not now and not falsly not knowing the spirit war.
     

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