When Did Christ "forgive" Certain Old Testament Laws?

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by PeaceLikeaRiver, Aug 24, 2014.

  1. Thank you for thoughts. Because of looking into this, I have come across some great verses. I recommend going to <http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html> and search on the word covenant. This takes you to <blueletterbible.org> where you will be given every verse with covenant in it. I don't go directly to blueletterbible because I have found it difficult to get the advanced feature which shows every Strongs listing for each word. I navigated to the NT listings and was able to see the corresponding Strongs greek listing.
    Yes, in Hebrews 8:7, 8:13, and 9:1, the word covenant was added. But 8:6, 8:9 and 8:10 do have the greek word for covenant. Reading from 8:6 to the end of the chapter, in context, the subject these verses are dealing with are the old vs. the new covenants, IMO. To me inserting "priesthood" in verses 7 and 13 do not make sense.
  2. Sure. I will need to look into it again. It has been a long, long time....
  3. I believe we are aligned regarding eternal law and situational instruction, but after reading your post I think terminology may be our only separator regarding covenants.

    It is my view that the Davidic covenant was a covenant given to “David” and then God honored that covenant when Christ was born, yet the whole world benefits from it. Jesus “fulfilled” prophecy (brought it to completion) when He was born. Meaning that a miraculous birth took place, from a specific lineage, in a specific place which “fulfilled” scripture.

    Yet a virgin birth is a “specific detail” in that covenant,” which will not be repeated. Thus our “Lord and Savior” was born from a virgin, but because of His love which is “eternal and divine.” Yet we can embrace the things which are eternal from the Davidic contract, which is “His Love.” However we are not obligated or permitted to repeat all contract specifics, such as engineering another virgin birth in Bethlehem. For the birth is not our capability and is most significantly “prophetic fulfillment.”

    Davidic Covenant – A covenant to David prophesied
    2 Samuel 7:12–13
    12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

    Davidic Covenant – The virgin birth prophesied
    Isaiah 7:14
    14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

    Davidic Covenant – The seed is to be born in Bethlehem prophesied
    Micah 5:2
    2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

    Davidic Covenant – The seed is to be born City of David
    Luke 2:10-11
    10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. 11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

    Davidic Covenant – Confirmed the Authority of Christ
    Matthew 21:9
    9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.

    Thus contract specifics are not eternal such as “pregnant Mary” or the manger will only happen once. We may give credence to the specific events such as a nativity scene which was premised upon the “divine” but we are not obligated to repeat the contractual specifics themselves here in the natural.

    I believe that the Mosaic or Sinain covenant was also fulfilled or completed but this time at the cross when our Saviors blood flowed and He gave up the ghost being a “perfect life example.” For it was prophesied that Christ would fulfill, uphold, or remain faultless regarding all Mosaic law. Thus Christ was “perfect” and his perfect life is that fulfillment of the old covenant.

    I believe that the Mosaic covenant was offered to “the people of Israel” but was delivered to them by the obedience of Moses. The Law then in full effect provided Christ opportunity to walk “perfectly.”

    Isaiah 53:9 - But He (Messiah ... Christ) had done no wrong, and he had never spoken an evil word."

    Thus Christ fulfilled the old law by walking perfectly but then gave us a new and greater covenant in Him. For no other man nor woman on earth can uphold the law to perfection, yet Christ did so and by doing it became the only candidate that could die for the sins of the world.

    Mosaic Covenant was offered to "children of Israel” here by God
    Exodus 19:3-6

    3 Then Moses climbed the mountain to appear before God. The Lord called to him from the mountain and said, “Give these instructions to the family of Jacob; announce it to the descendants of Israel: 4 ‘You have seen what I did to the Egyptians. You know how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. 5 Now if you will obey me and keep my covenant, you will be my own special treasure from among all the peoples on earth; for all the earth belongs to me. 6 And you will be my kingdom of priests, my holy nation.’ This is the message you must give to the people of Israel.”

    Mosaic Covenant was accepted here by the "children Israel”
    Exodus 19:7, 8
    7 So Moses returned from the mountain and called together the elders of the people and told them everything the Lord had commanded him. 8 And all the people responded together, “We will do everything the Lord has commanded.” So Moses brought the people’s answer back to the Lord.

    Mosaic Covenant was ratified here with the children of “Israel”
    Exodus 24:4-8
    4 Then Moses carefully wrote down all the Lord’s instructions. Early the next morning Moses got up and built an altar at the foot of the mountain. He also set up twelve pillars, one for each of the twelve tribes of Israel. 5 Then he sent some of the young Israelite men to present burnt offerings and to sacrifice bulls as peace offerings to the Lord. 6 Moses drained half the blood from these animals into basins. The other half he splattered against the altar.
    7 Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it aloud to the people. Again they all responded, “We will do everything the Lord has commanded. We will obey.”
    8 Then Moses took the blood from the basins and splattered it over the people, declaring, “Look, this blood confirms the covenant the Lord has made with you in giving you these instructions.”

    Mosaic Covenant –Prophesied transition to a “new” covenant in Christ
    Jeremiah 31:31-34
    31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    Mosaic Covenant – We have been released from the old law and are dead to it
    Romans 7:6
    6 But now we have been released from the law, for we died to it and are no longer captive to its power. Now we can serve God, not in the old way of obeying the letter of the law, but in the new way of living in the Spirit.

    Mosaic Covenant – Fulfilled by severing the old connection of the Spirit
    Matthew 27:50-55
    50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

    Mosaic Covenant – becomes outdated and obsolete
    Hebrews 8:13
    By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

    The old covenant was given to the children of Israel before Christ died, and when Christ who was a Jew also lived with perfection, was then able to usher in a superior contract. A contract that is not made up of compulsion and violence, but one that was purchased by His blood that affords us His saving Grace for every person on planet earth that will accept the covenant of Christ.

    I would not suggest any imperfections, I would suggest delegation unto our freewill where a conscience decision can fall obedient or disobedient in the confines of Natural Law, using our free-will to rationalize good and evil. For if we have no freewill then we have no choice.

    Then also with contracts I suggest no imperfections, but only that contracts can be relevant to specific people at a specific time and for a specific purpose. The contract specifics then are not necessarily eternal but can be situational, especially if human law is institutionalized.. Thus I advocate no errors. I instead advocate for diverse application for contracts that will disseminate His eternal law.

    I agree
  4. Thank you so much again for your humble spirit.

    Is it possible that Christ "himself" is the One who will "fulfil?" Meaning that His perfect execution of the law moved him into position to do what no other person could do? That is to shed His blood as He perfectly remained innocent? For in the New Testament many scriptures will say, that Christ did this or He did that in order to "fulfil," the scripture. What was fulfilled that day on the cross?

    I contend that Jesus is central to the law being fulfilled which was consummated with his death. I also contend that "mosaic law" is a natural reflection of "eternal law." For that which was compulsory is obsolete and that which is eternal is an ever present constant. To great importance is the new covenant which was given to us by Christ, which is "wholly eternal," and void of political economic compulsion. For Christ issued forth His new covenant with power which accomplished what the old custodial covenant could not do.

    Please forgive me if I am too direct and in a spirit of meekness I can respect hermeneutical differences.
  5. I just wish I knew what you were saying.

    Sometimes.....simple and direct is better understood. At least to me.
  6. When I boil it down, what I get from GF is the old covenant is compulsory, meaning you have to do things, physically, to remain in the covenant. Things like circumcision, animal sacrifice, get your food ready on Friday so you don't have to "work" on the Sabbath, and the like.
    The new covenant requires nothing physical, but spiritual. Jesus did not have to give himself up as a sacrifice. He did it out of love. So both ends were not compulsory. Jesus fulfilled the old covenant and law eternally.
    Great Fiction likes this.
  7. My apologies Major

    Jesus fulfilled the law by perfectly obeying all that the law required by living His life in obedience unto total perfection, and also fulfilling the prophets by completing what was prophesied to come to pass. Thus His obedient life and His death upon the cross fulfilled scripture and brought the Old Covenant from Moses to fulfilment.

    He lived it out
    He fulfilled it
    He brought it to completion
    He satisfied the requirement of the law in order to "live"

    Jesus fulfilled or completed the "requirement" of the law by being perfect and now by salvation which is our "new covenant," that same requirement completed by Christ is now extended "in us."

    Thus if we try to live by the old covenant given to Israel through Moses then we must obey it to perfection in order to live which no person can do except Christ Himself. Yet the old covenant has been replaced by the new covenant which is superior and offered to the whole world. The new covenant in Christ is superior because the price of perfection has already been performed and by His death extends it to us, but most importantly "in us."
    Big Moose likes this.
  8. I am an old man my brother and simply said is easier understood by me. I was not condemning your articulation as much as I was condemning myself for not being able to grasp it.

    I agree completely with what you just posted. It was clear and easy and simple........just like me.(simple)
    Great Fiction likes this.
  9. Major your immeasurable wisdom permeates this forum in more ways that I can calculate. I am truly grateful for your contributions sir.

    It is my fault for over complexifying things.
  10. Thanks for the flowers. You are to good to me!

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