What's More Important, How You Live Or What You Know?

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Xian Pugilist, Aug 11, 2012.

  1. In another place, the Roman Catholics were being lambasted by daring to say a Xian should be doing good works. It was irrelevant how much they proved with scripture, they were RCC and they said works, so they were open targets. Even the moderators took part in it.

    So I'm curious, if works are not to be achieved, and it's more about your studies to be independant of the Church's teaching, which was the gist of the arguments there, how does that work? So, what do you believe?

    Is knowing the TULIP, sinners prayer, trinity doctrine, etc... important to salvation? If a person knew all of those things, would they be saved?

    Could someone be saved without knowing those things? Someone without even knowing there WAS a Jesus, could they be saved?

    Or, could they have lived a life, that would have enabled God to have a relationship with them anyway, even if they had no clue what "a doctrine" was?
  2. Doesn't what you know influence, change or determine how you live?

    I think they go hand in hand...Second Peter seems to say the same thing:

    2Pe 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
    2Pe 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
    2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
    2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
    2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
    2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
    2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
    2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
    2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
    2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
    2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
    2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
    2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
    2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
    2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
    2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
    2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
    2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

    2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

    2Pe 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
    2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
    2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
    2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
    2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
    2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
    2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    And Second Timothy confirms it...
    2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
    2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
    2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
    2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
    2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
    2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
    2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
    2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
    2Ti 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
    2Ti 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
    2Ti 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
    2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
    2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
    2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
    2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
    2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

    I think we need to have the knowledge of the Lord in order to do the work that he built us for....and apply that knowledge to our lives...That is my take . Not meant to start a debate, or try to prove to anyone else what they should believe here, just how I was led to respond to the thread.

  3. Absolutely. I'd say the Church today is disparate to how scripture says to get it. Scripture is pretty clear to me, I know probably not to any of the rest of you except for the occasional RCC brother/sister, that the church has people appointed in positions of leadership to lead us and teach us to prepare us for how we live/our works for God... It says through those works we learn knowledge. It's a hands on knowledge, effectual knowledge vs a books knowledge.

    Try to learn pitch left handed by reading a book if you are right handed. Then try to not read any books and just throw the ball a billion times. Which will have more success?

    We need a coach in the not studying angle, but that is Jesus through the Church and those He appointed. Eph 4. And 1 Clement (not canonical but history to see how the early church looked at the topic.)
    It's going to disappoint our fans, but I like your post, and IF you'll add the Ephesians 4:11-17 verses in addition to your verses I'd be 100% on your side. You didn't address that aspect so we don't' necessarily disagree.
  4. btw, thank you for a great post.
  5. A good read regarding this topic, or at least for definition of terms:

    1. Church Exclusivism
    2. Gospel Exclusivism
    3. Special Revelation Exclusivism
    4. Agnosticism (as to the fate of the unevangelized)
    · “pessimistic agnosticism”
    · “optimistic agnosticism.”
    5. General Revelation Inclusivism
    6. World Religions Inclusivism
    7. Postmortem Evangelism
    8. Universalism
    9. Pluralism

    What number I believe in? maybe next time, not now as I have some other works to do : )

    … because what I learned from many board/ office meetings: if there is an idea to solve a problem: the person who suggested the idea will be bombarded by many questions : )
  6. :) I thrive on being bombarded, it puts me in the mindset that I learn the most from. But, I'm quite sure I'm the exception.

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