What Is Your Opinion On "isaiah 45:7"

I think we should remember that evil preexisted man. Man himself is not evil. But of course, man himself isn't good either.

The very first act of sin did not take place in the garden. It was Lucifer's pride. This was his separation from God.

If God is in actuality Love, then a separation of this would have to be evil by default.
 
Genesis 6:5 says that the Lord saw the wickedness of man. IT does not say that He created evil.

You are absolutely wrong my dear to say....................
"Now when the scriptures says what he made was good you are taking that out of context. What he made was good for the purpose it was created".

Your information is very flawed and very wrong! So you commented on "context". Lets consider that.

The context of Isaiah 45:7 makes it clear that something other than “bringing moral evil into existence” is in mind. The context of Isaiah 45:7 is God rewarding Israel for obedience and punishing Israel for disobedience. God pours out salvation and blessings on those whom He favors. God brings judgment on those who continue to rebel against Him. “Woe to him who quarrels with his Master” (Isaiah 45:9). That is the person to whom God brings “evil” which is actually and literally translated as "sorrow, calamity and "disaster.” So, rather than saying that God created “moral evil,” Isaiah 45:7 is presenting a common theme of Scripture – that God brings disaster on those who continue in hard-hearted rebellion against Him.
Gen. 1:29 says exactly what I quoted it said. The Creation was not just good.....it was very good. God used the word GOOD seven times in His narrative of Creation. The number Seven represents Divine Perfection. God simply considered His work and activity and noted how wonderful it truly was.

YOU however have added......."What he made was good for the purpose it was created".

The Bible is quite clear that God is not the author of evil and insists that He is incapable of doing so. Please do some home work.
 
Lucifer was an angel. He certainly wasn't a man. The Bible doesn't say anything about Angels being made in the image of God (this doesn't prove they weren't), but it does say man was. It would be an interesting subject to dissect Angels as being made in the image of God or not.

But Lucifer certainly wasn't a man.
 
LysanderShapiro said:
I think we should remember that evil preexisted man. Man himself is not evil. But of course, man himself isn't good either.

The very first act of sin did not take place in the garden. It was Lucifer's pride. This was his separation from God.

If God is in actuality Love, then a separation of this would have to be evil by default.
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Good point.
 
texascowgirl said:
Lucifer was a man. So yes the evil God created is man.
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NOPE. Wrong again girl from Texas...........Homework! Study!

Do you see how hard you are having to work to make your theories work.

If it is truth, it always fits perfectly and requires no pushing and pulling to make it work.
 
LysanderShapiro said:
Even if I granted you that Lucifer WAS a man for argument's sake, this wouldn't provide evidence that man is the source of evil itself. One could argue that man holds the ability to promote evil.
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I understand your premise Lysander but it is an impossibility to even discuss since the Scripture is the last word on truth and it says that Satan was a fallen angel.

Job 1:6
We hear that Satan was in heaven with other angels.
"One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them."
 
Major said:
I understand your premise Lysander but it is an impossibility to even discuss since the Scripture is the last word on truth and it says that Satan was a fallen angel.

Job 1:6
We hear that Satan was in heaven with other angels.
"One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them."
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I was only saying if I granted that that argument was valid. Naturally I disagree with it since the scriptures say Satan was a fallen angel and not a man. It was only for argument's sake.

I was being hypothetical in other words.
 
Hi FS - Give John Gill's commentary a test view, and God's blessings to your Family! "create evil": not the evil of sin . . . but the evil of punishment for sin, God's sore judgments, famine, pestilence, harmful beasts, and the sword, or war, which latter may more especially be intended." see Job 2:10.
 
th1bill said:
I must say that I disagree but I believe that as you study, pray and meditate in prayer that the Holy Spirit will show you that you're skewing you perspective with a Worldly View. i.e. Folks believe that God hardening Pharaoh's heart is evil but it is, just, not so. Prayerful reading of the scriptures has connected me with the Spirit, often, and the result on this is that God knew, long before his birth, that Pharaoh owuld never bend and He, God, reacted accordingly.

When Adam fell into sin, the curse was and still is, justice. Justice may appear harsh but it is still right and is never evil in the Saved Man's perspective.

God bless.
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I think you misunderstood my earlier post. I agree God doesn't do evil, but He does do things that we may construe as evil because they appear so to us, even though they aren't. It was good that God hardened Pharaoh's. He did it to reveal His glory before the Egyptians and Hebrews, and besides, Pharaoh wanted a hard heart anyway.

The curse was good, but it doesn't appear so to us, because we have a subjective idea of goodness: we judge goodness by whatever pleases us. God's definition of 'good' is not subjective, but is what works for the betterment of his whole creation and fulfills His purposes.
 
Major, it does indeed say he created evil. Read it again
Major said:
NOPE. Wrong again girl from Texas...........Homework! Study!

Do you see how hard you are having to work to make your theories work.

If it is truth, it always fits perfectly and requires no pushing and pulling to make it work.
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Major it is you that is wrong. Lucifer is not an angel that fell from heaven. You are taking something to be literal when its not to be taken that way. It's a figure of speech. He was a man that lost his authoritative position.
 
Major said:
Not really my brother.

God did not create evil, but He does allow evil. If God had not allowed for the possibility of evil, both mankind and angels would be serving God out of obligation, not choice. He did not want “robots” that simply did what He wanted them to do because of their “programming.” God allowed for the possibility of evil so that we could genuinely have a free will and choose whether or not we wanted to serve Him.
Good stuff at, "gotquestions.org.home".
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I agree with you Major. I was just trying to say the underlined another way ^^.
 
texascowgirl said:
Major, it does indeed say he created evil. Read it again


Major it is you that is wrong. Lucifer is not an angel that fell from heaven. You are taking something to be literal when its not to be taken that way. It's a figure of speech. He was a man that lost his authoritative position.
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I think to question the interpretation of genesis is fair--literal or figurative. There may have been about four authors and each seem to write differently. In earlier chapters, there seems to be more figurative language.

However, it shouldn't all be dismissed as something totally different than what it says. More importantly, the books that were written more literally reference Satan's fall-- Jude 1:16, Luke 10:18, Job 1:6, Ezekiel 28:14-25...we have to conclude satan was no man. He was called an anointed cherub.

Where did you come up with the idea that Lucifer was a man?
 
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texascowgirl said:
Lucifer was a man. So yes the evil God created is man.
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interesting POV, although i think it is not new....

Acts 23:8-10
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, nor an angel, nor a spirit, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all. 9 And there occurred a great uproar; and some of the scribes of the Pharisaic party stood up and began to argue heatedly, saying, “We find nothing wrong with this man; suppose a spirit or an angel has spoken to him?” 10 And as a great dissension was developing, the [a]commander was afraid Paul would be torn to pieces by them and ordered the troops to go down and take him away from them by force, and bring him into the barracks.
 
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aha said:
interesting POV, although i think it is not new....

Acts 23:8-10
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, nor an angel, nor a spirit, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all. 9 And there occurred a great uproar; and some of the scribes of the Pharisaic party stood up and began to argue heatedly, saying, “We find nothing wrong with this man; suppose a spirit or an angel has spoken to him?” 10 And as a great dissension was developing, the [a]commander was afraid Paul would be torn to pieces by them and ordered the troops to go down and take him away from them by force, and bring him into the barracks.
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With all due respect "aha"........Acts 23:8-10 does not address the idea of Satan being a man IMHO.
 
LysanderShapiro said:
I think to question the interpretation of genesis is fair--literal or figurative. There may have been about four authors and each seem to write differently. In earlier chapters, there seems to be more figurative language.

However, it shouldn't all be dismissed as something totally different than what it says. More importantly, the books that were written more literally reference Satan's fall-- Jude 1:16, Luke 10:18, Job 1:6, Ezekiel 28:14-25...we have to conclude satan was no man. He was called an anointed cherub.

Where did you come up with the idea that Lucifer was a man?
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It can only come from the pit of hell itself!
 
texascowgirl said:
Major, it does indeed say he created evil. Read it again


Major it is you that is wrong. Lucifer is not an angel that fell from heaven. You are taking something to be literal when its not to be taken that way. It's a figure of speech. He was a man that lost his authoritative position.
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Now it becomes incumbant upon you to prove your comment. You have made a statement that must be validated to be accepted.

Your comment was...........
"Lucifer is not an angel that fell from heaven. He was a man that lost his authoritative position."

Post the Scripture which says exactly that. This is a BIBLICAL STUDY site so we ask you to post from the BIBLE the verse which confirms your comment.
 
Major said:
With all due respect "aha"........Acts 23:8-10 does not address the idea of Satan being a man IMHO.
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I don't think this is even a matter of opinion--I think you've got the facts straight. These verses were talking about the conflict between Paul's faith and the Pharisees' religious conflict with the Sadducees (they were the secular Jews of their time).
 
Major said:
With all due respect "aha"........Acts 23:8-10 does not address the idea of Satan being a man IMHO.
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Yes, it does not directly address.....

Sometimes I jump into conclusion based on people flow of thoughts /posts (i can be wrong of course with the conclusion)

In another thread http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/does-god-love-everyone.35569/page-5
…. with her POV on sheol and hades: no hellfire,,,

There has to be consistency with the POV: no hellfire will translate into no spirit, no angel….therefore only man…
 
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