What is truth?

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by geralduk, Aug 10, 2015.

  1. A question thrown in my face many a time by scoffers and unbelievers .
    Having decided to face the question rather than ignore it .
    To my delight the answer as always I found in the Bible. In nearly 40 years reading and studying it and thinking about it ;why I should have been surprised to find the answer in it I do not know as the Bible has more answers than any man has questions.
    I suppose the simple answer is as Jesus said it. "Thy Word is truth" and in another place " I am the truth..........."
    Pilate asked Jesus the question "what is truth?" Yet in part at least he already knew it . That the man before him ,that was his responsibility to judge righteous judgment ,declared publicly that this man was innocent and and not guilty of any crime worthy of death. Yet still had his back wipped till it looked like" a ploughed field " and so badly beaten with his beard plucked from his face" that he was not recognisable as a man" still had the Lord put to death.
    His trouble was he wanted peace at any price and wanted to please both the crowd and Rome. No good has ever come of a double mind .
    "if your eye be single your whole body is full of light "
    What is truth ? it was standing in front of him but he saw it not.

    But I would like to bring something else to mind and to consider .
    That I found in the Bible as well.
    If you cant recognise the truth when you see it and you cant recognise the truth when you hear it you are effectively blind. Not knowing which is your left and which is your right ,whether you are coming or whether you are going and are then effectively lost .
    What is the truth?
    It is as a light that shines in the darkness . For when a person does not know what the truth is (on anything) he is in the dark .Not knowing what decision to make or which direction to go .
    But when that person knows the truth he "sees" what needs to be done , what decisions to make and which way to go.
    "God is not willing that anybody should perish but that all should come to a knowledge of the truth "
    This is the truth .

    "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth ."
    and it was not heaven that was in darkness but the earth .
    "For heaven needs no sun or moon for God is the light thereof"
    and it was not God who was in darkness but man .
    "For God is light and in Him there is no darkness nor shadow of turning"
    "But they that sat in darkness have seen a great light"
    and God seeing the earth in darkness did that which is according to HIS nature ,character and disposition said "let there be light ,and there was light "

    and that declaration has never been withdrawn .Nor ever will.
    "and the darkness comprehended it not"

    in Christ
    Grant Melville likes this.
  2. Hello Gerald,

    It is not surprising that the last gospel to be preached will be, 'The Everlasting Gospel', which has as it's subject, God as 'The Creator'.

    'And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven,
    having the everlasting gospel to preach
    unto them that dwell on the earth,
    and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
    saying with a loud voice,

    "Fear God, and give glory to Him;
    for the hour of His judgment is come:
    and worship Him
    that made heaven, and earth, and the sea,
    and the fountains of waters.'

    (Rev 14:6,7)

    In Christ Jesus
    Major likes this.
  3. Good stuff gerald.

    My thought is that we are ALL sinners, depraved, doomed and destined for eternal hell....
    BUT God who is rich in mercy for His great love where with in Christ He loved us and saved us and placed us together in Christ Jesus in heavelnly places.......

    That my frinds is the truth!!!! And when you think about it, nothing else matters at all!
  4. Yet is it not strange that the church does not know God the creator. Or he "who is from the beginning"
    They have heard of Him but do not know Him.
    and too many professing children of God do not believe Gods word as to the beginning ,or as God has recorded it .But challenged by the world have mixed truth with error and half believe the Word of God and half the world .
    But how can you know Him who is from the beginning unless you believe Him who inspired men so tow rite "in the beginning"?

    in Christ
    Grant Melville likes this.
  5. While what you have said matters a great deal .
    I would say or direct your eyes to what John said .
    "Little children your sins are forgiven and ye know the father ..."
    But what of what follows?
    Ye young men the Word of God dwelleth in your richly and abides and (listen) ye have overcome the wicked one"
    Then we come to "ye fathers ye know Him who is from the beginning .."

    in Christ
  6. This is a good word, @geralduk, thank you. Recently, I spent some time with a close friend of mine, a brother who I've known for a number of years now and with whom I walk in fellowship. He's been led - by the enemy, I'm afraid - to question many fundamental things and try to work them out by reasoning. That really is the definition of "double-minded" as James puts it in his epistle. I should make it clear that this brother is most definitely a brother, most definitely saved, and in the past has been a very bright testimony; lately though, he's got into this questioning frame of mind. I'm sure it'll pass. One of the many things we discussed was the inspiration of scripture - which he acknowledges, but he has difficulty with the fact that the canon of scripture was put together over such a long period, and he appears to think that some parts were added by people other than the original writers at a later date. What I said to him was that we know the scriptures are God's word because we know God. If we try to work out the origin of the Bible rationally, tracing its various portions to this writer in AD such-and-such, or this writer in BC so-and-so, we're bound to get into all kinds of knots. At the very least, doubts can creep in. But, if we approach it from the standpoint of faith, there can be no doubts. Faith knows God, and faith knows what is of God - it's beautifully simple. The apocrypha wasn't included in the canon of the inspired Word because faithful people saw that it wasn't purely of God. The Song of Songs and the Book of Esther were included, although doubters dismissed them as uninspired, because people with spiritual discernment saw them to be what they are: definitely inspired. Faith isn't merely an unquestioning acceptance of a narrative, conveniently ignoring anything that doesn't fit said narrative. Faith is total assurance, conviction, certainty. "Now faith is the substantiating of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1). Faith treads on solid ground, where as even the most well-reasoned theory from the mind of man can never really be accepted with complete certainty. That struck me like never before when I was talking about these things with my friend. In answer to every objection he raised, after I'd drawn on what limited knowledge of scripture that I have, I found myself coming back to the subject of faith. Yes, all those things he spoke about are problematic if approached from the side of human intelligence, human reasoning. None of them are the least bit troublesome if approached from the side of faith. Man's mind will always end up with a shrug and a question, "What is truth?" Faith is assured what truth is. Faith has already reached the cherished, restful destination that the convoluted and tortuous trails of philosophy and rationalism ultimately fail to arrive at. In their despair, atheistic thinkers will call us naive and accuse us of ignoring the facts, when that couldn't be further from the truth. Faith is in full possession of the facts, and happily so, since those facts aren't gloomy, but glorious. They're the blessed facts concerning God who is Love.
    Big Moose and Complete say Amen and like this.
  7. To Grant Melvile, et all

    One of the reasons I love God or should I put it another reason why I love God is that he and by the scriptures provokes thought .
    The Bible is full of thought provoking statements and actions both good and bad.
    The first question ever recorded in scripture was of one who on the face of it seemed to be a seeker of light and understanding. What he really wanted was to get a religious debate going so that in the midst of it he might sow the seeds of doubt confusion and lies.
    "Yea hath God said.........?"
    "it was while men slept that his enemy came and sowed tares" it is not unreasonable to think that in someway Adam was asleep when the serpent was sowing his seeds of confusion,doubt and lies in the mind of Eve .
    Not a few questions in many a christian forum and face to face are of this kind and we need to be awake to them.
    God is not afraid of any question. Does he not say "enquire of me"? and in another "get understanding"? How can you get understanding if you dont ask questions?
    The disciples asked the Lord any number of questions . Not all received an answer they 'liked'
    There are also two sorts of questions .One that is on the foundation of unbelief.
    This is exemplified by the father of John the baptist when told his wife who was old and barren was going to concieve a child, by the angel of God He asked how can this be !? thinking it impossible ,he was rebuked for it and struck dumb for his impertinence for 9 months .
    The other is on the foundation of belief .As exemplified by Mary,who on being told she was going to have a child asked in faith believing how can this be seeing that I know not a man? She believed but wanted more light.
    They that have more is given. and she was given more light and understanding .
    Trying to satisfy a query based on unbelief is as fruitless"..... as a barren womb" .For the scriptures say it "they are never satisfied"
    It sounds like your friend hasd come into contact one way or the other with modern day theologians many of whom are disguised as angels of light and boast in their "better understanding" But have the temerity to subject the scriptures to thier intellects and reasoning .and think to change the scriptures to suit their own reasoning and perceptions .and sown tares like confetti with equal abandon.
    Faith in God comes not only by hearing but by understanding the Word of God.
    If a man cannot either hear or understand another mans words unless that man gives his breath or or life to his words how then can any man hear and understand Gods word unless the Holy Spirit enables him to do so? Whether he knows Greek or Hebrew. and has the original texts before his eyes .
    For neither did Saul of Tarsus any good and Hebrew was his mother tounge .. Nor a lot of the Pharasees either . They so did not understand the scriptures they crucified the Son of God and agreed to Stephens death and thought it was Gods will"!
    I thereforew would suggest to your freind if as you say he is a true born child of God that he go back to a place where he knew the truth and met with God . Even as Abraham did when he erred .
    There is the BODY of truth. Which are the scriptures . You could also say the Body of Christ also .
    Then there is the SPIRIT of truth.
    You need both.
    If you have the Word of God and not the Spirit of God ,you dry up.
    If you have the Spirit of God and not the Word of God you will blow up.
    If you have the Word of God and the Spirit of God then we grow up.
    We need both.
    The letter killeth but the Spirit .............."
    "My Words said jesus they are Spirit and they are life "
    When the Spirit of truth shall come he will abide in you forever . and it is by HIM that we know the spirit of error.
    For he will lead us into all truth and when you knwo the truth the truth shall make you free.
    Your friend has been tempted to lean upon his own understanding as all temptations are meant to do. get us to walk after the flesh and not the Spirit .

    in Christ
    Grant Melville likes this.
  8. What is truth?
    I once had two salt pots and never liking to look for the salt always put them in the same cupboard.
    One day one of the salt pots was broken and discarded.
    and later needed some salt and so went to the cupboard for it . The cupboard was not a big one ,just one dividing shelf and I could see back and front and nothing was hid from my eyes .
    I looked and looked but could not see the salt pot. I looked harder and still did not .I remembered how birds early in the morning looking for worms cannot see them,but they know they are there so keep looking .
    Then I believe God had mercy on me and let me see that what I was looking for and what was in my imagination was the broken salt pot. In my imagination I had the picture of the broken salt pot and it was that which I was looking for . As soon as i realised that I discarded it and put in its place the unbroken salt pot. and as soon as I did so ,I imidiately saw the salt pot. It had been right in front of my eyes at eye level in the front all the time . But because I had the wrong thing in my imagination it blinded me to the truth.
    The "strongholds in high places" are in the imagination of men . and ANY idol, statue , icon etc places a wrong image or picture in the imagination and will and does blind the mind to the truth , For that image is a lie.
    The roman churches teaching of the immaculate conception of Mary is a concept that dazzles the imagination but blinds mens mind to the truth.
    ANY false doctrine and teaching puts false concepts in the imagination that blinds men to the truth .
    Paul prayed for christians that "the eyes of their understanding may be opened .........." Eph.
    For while the devil cannot stop a person being 'saved' or BORN again. he will do all that he can still to blind the mind to what is theirs in Christ and in this case "what is the exceedign greatness of his power that is towards us who believes even the same might power that raised up Jesus from the dead.........."
    So just because our eyes have bene opened to see or understand the need to repent have faith towards God and be BORNagain.
    Does not mean we still do not have blind spots so to speak and we need therefore to not only have our hearts renewed and transformed but our lives via our MINDS as well. "by the renewal of our minds"
    For the Scriptures are in effect GODs reasoning and perception of things to which we are to be conformed to .
    and while it also records mans perceptions and reasonings ,it also teaches the consequences of them.
    Even as it does of Gods .
    and if our experience does not come up to scripture .We must not then bring the scriptures down to the measure of our own faith and experience, But must ensure we always hold up the Word of God and seek by the grace of God to bring our experience into line with scripture.

    in Christ
    Euphemia and Complete say Amen and like this.
  9. Hello Gerald,
    I say, 'Amen', to your post, and appreciated the illustration of the salt pots: but would like to draw your attention to your use of Eph. 18a:-

    'That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ,
    the Father of glory,
    may give unto you
    the spirit of wisdom and revelation
    in the knowledge of Him:
    The eyes of your understanding being enlightened;
    that ye may know
    what is the hope of His calling,
    and what the riches
    of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, ... '

    * That enlightenment is an assumed fact in Paul's prayer for those, BELIEVERS, to whom he wrote.
    * The prayer was that they may receive the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, also.

    Praise God!

    Thank you, Gerald.
    In Christ Jesus
  10. Hello, I hope that what follows may not seem simply to be picking at straws or simply out of needless and fruitless contention.
    You suggest that the enlightenment is a given and while I understand your reasoning .I have to say that while our eyes are indeed have been enlightened .Paul was still praying that we would be enlightened more .
    For example . John speaks of "little children " who know the father and their sins are forgiven 1John.
    here we have a new true born child of God and or a bit older a little child.
    Not yet skilled in the word of God nor knowing what their father is about as it were.
    For little children know indeed their father .That he loves them and provides for them .But that he also goes out and he also comes in. But have no real idea what he 'does' or indeed his ways .
    You could liken it also to the children of Israel who know "the acts of God but Moses knew his ways"
    In truth little children know their mother more than their father in the beginning .
    It takes a growing maturity to understand that your father ' goes to work' and even more maturity to get to know your fathers ways .When sons used to follow in their fathers footsteps in buisness or trade then what they saw the father doing or as the father taught them so then they did also.
    If you take the example of the tabernacle .ALL come via the first curtain who are His. and to the place of sacrifice and are accepted by the blood of the lamb . In the outer courtyard all things are seen and understood by the natural light of the sun.
    and we can come to God only by the cross of Jesus Christ .
    But then we are also called to a "high calling" one which demands we put off the old cloths and put on christ.For the pattern of the first curtain is also the same as the next one into the Holy of Holies .
    As we were called to the first so then are we called also to the second .To be priests and kings unto God.
    In the outer court we see and understand things with the natural mind and eye and are they yet carnal.
    But the holy pl;ace has no natural light at all. The only illumination is from the 7 branch oil lamp that speaks of the Holy Spirit on the one side and opposite we have the shew bread speakign of the Word of God .
    here then we have also the alter of incense or of prayer continually made to God .
    Thus in the outer court we might or can make the mistake as little children that the father is as it were our servent who just supplies all of our needs as it were. and we walk by sight .
    But in the Holy place we must walk by faith .Not accordign to our own thinkign and ideas .But as we are taugth by the Word of God and the Spirit of God .
    Here we not only walk by faith according to the true light of ther Word and Spirit of God .
    But we come to understand that here we serve God and bring prayer unto God according to the needs of the kingdom primarily as well as intercede on behalf of Gods people .
    For we are taught to pray not "my father who art in heaven ..but OUR father who art in heaven.
    Thus when we come away from the world and what we see with the natural eye and mind. We are to bring into the presence of God and see those things in their true perspective and pray then accordingly .That takes time to learn and we g row in that as we do everything else .
    For even here there are depths to prayer and intercession .Where we may weep much and be in agony of prayer for we see more of Gods way of seeign things than we do of our own to the extent we know what what to pray but the Spirit of God who maketh groanings that cannot be uttered maketh intercession... accordign to the mind of God.
    We grow in grace and in the knowldge of God do we not?
    Then if Paul still sought to know the power of His resurection then I humbly submit so do then we all . and albeit we may know in some measure the power of his ressurection if we are His.
    I would submit that we .I you and the church knows very little of what Paul knew yet still wanted to know more. of.
    I would there fore submit that while I know the power of His resurection being BORN again.
    There is still much more land to conquer .
    For what is MORE than a conquerer?
    and the gates of hell have still yet to tremble at the coming of the church .
    Though it has already known the coming of the Lord and what says the scriptures? "open up ye gates for the king of glory ....."?
    Death could not keep him out .As by the law he died and the sting of death is sin and the power of sin is the law .
    But having opened .They could not then keep him in as he "knew no sin" then God could righteously raise Him from the dead and the gates of hell could not prevail against him.
    There is no hiding place then for the devil and even hell and death are no longer his .
    Thus that victory of calvary that was accomplished and the keys of death and hell now hang on the Lords belt as it were .
    means that the power and resurection of THAT death has yet to be fully manifested in the lives of Gods people .
    For even as the death that was wrought in Adam took 800 years to manifest itself in the body of Adam. So then the victory and the life that was wrought in the last Adam when God raised Him from the dead is done but not yet manifested in all its glory.
    he then that liveth in us is the same Spirit that raised up Jesus from the dead .If then the body is dead because of sin .Then eh who raised up jesus from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spriit .I submit that while in part we know a little . We need the eyes of our understanding to be opened far more .For the days are coming and nigh on are already here .When we not only need" to know Him who is from the beginning " But the power of His resurection also.

    in Christ
  11. Truth is only what is true no matter what situation you are in or what time period in history you live. The only thing that fits that definition is God's Word.
    Major likes this.
  12. "The entrance of thy word giveth light"
    Did not the Lord command the light to shine in the darkness of our hearts?

    In Christ
  13. From the moment that the truth is first spoken .It is rarely believed and thought a lie. But as time passes it becomes more and more manifestly the truth .
    When a lie is first spoken it is sadly inevitably believed as the truth, but as time passes more and more it becomes more and more manifestly false or a lie .
    The truth always remains the truth as to the lie . But each becomes more manifestly so as time passes.

    in Christ
  14. The Self evidencing Virtue of God's Word. Without a doubt, "Entrance of thy word giveth light." God's word as we find it in His Bible is light for only light can give light. But light is self evidencing; it needs nothing to show its presence and its value but itself; so the written Word of God, shows its own truth and divinity to the believer.
  15. Absolutely correct!

    John 17:17
    "Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth."
  16. Just reread your post and noticed the word "narrative" . This is the new 'buzz' word' it primarily came from Rome and such 'theologians ' that seek to so water the word of God down it will suit everybody.
    Im not being critical of you using it . Im saying be watchful its going to be a key word to 'marry' the world and the church.
    For the world is now using it . There is I believe an inherent 'wrongness' with thew word as it si propagated.I have not fathomed it yet. But seek only to warn you that the scriptures are not a narrative . A story, a oral 'tradition written down , a myth etc.Not that I think you think so. But the word narrative leans towards such a projection.
    I enjoyed your post .

    in Christ
    Grant Melville likes this.
  17. I appreciate your concern about the use of words, and I must say I share it. There are words and phrase that many professing Christians use freely which I feel are dangerous. I've never felt that way about the word 'narrative', I have to admit - although I used it in the above post in a negative way, to mean an account of events agreed among men and sanctified by the opinions and traditions of men, which the scriptures certainly aren't. I always struggle to find a suitable word to describe the scriptural account of things succinctly - I don't use the word 'story', because it sounds childish and, after all, stories can be made-up. Narrative, in the 'right sense', has always suggested to me an account of events - in the case of scripture, an account of events by the Holy Spirit Himself. But, I appreciate your warning, and I take it to heart sincerely. We can't let the enemy infiltrate our modes of speech subtly.
  18. Folks, let's try not to strain at gnats, or find demons under every rock.
    If you can find a meaning for the word other than what is listed below, let me know.
    noun: narrative; plural noun: narratives
    1. a spoken or written account of connected events; a story
  19. "Truth" is what Jesus is, and what his Word is. Truth is "reality" which is what the word means. Reality is only found where things never change. This world is not the reality as it is changing day by day, and is passing away. Jesus never changes neither does His Kingdom where he sits enthrone in all His Glory with us inside him. Oh happy day!!!
    Complete likes this.
  20. In the absolute sense, truth is that which is real and complete as opposed to what is false and wanting.

    Just as interesting, is how do we find and qualify what is true and complete from what is false and wanting? One way is, as bible scholar Norman Geisler pointed out, through accurate correlation (e.g. "truth is found in correlation").

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