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What is the real value of scripture?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by nws2dc, Nov 16, 2014.

  1. The other day I was listening to a debate about the existence of God between a Christian Minister and an Atheist. The atheist kept quoting scripture in an effort to show “contradictions” or “inconsistencies”. At one point the minister responded “There is a lot more to God than just scripture”.

    I feel that this is true. But so many people when it comes to their God and their religion cling to their interpretation of scriptures as if nothing else matters. To illustrate that scripture isn’t always necessary in matters of morality I will use an example of teaching a child not to steal. First explain to the child that when they take someone else’s property they are hurting that person. Tell examples of the pain and inconveniences the victim will feel. Then explain the inner shame that the child will feel after stealing and the fact that they never can enjoy the stolen item. You could finally show them many examples of those who stole and the consequences faced through stories, documentaries etc. There are countless ones to choose from in every culture.

    The above example could apply to really any of the major 10 commandments. There is the scripture “Though should not steal” and then there is the real life stuff. So my larger question is what is the danger of reducing everything about God to just scripture. Some parts of the Bible aren’t easy to understand. Many Christians and non-Christians get scripture wrong all the time. What is more valuable wise experience or scripture? Is it dangerous for someone without a seminary/theological background to study the bible alone?
     
  2. The Bible is Gods Word, therefore this is how we receive truth. Everything we need to witness to someone comes from the Word of God. Yes we can use our own experiences to give examples, but when it comes to witnessing all we can do is share Gods word and then let the Holy Spirit do the rest.
     
    Heart_for_Christ, Major and Silk says Amen and like this.
  3. #3 Ph8th, Nov 16, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2014
    The real value

    2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NASB)

    16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.


    I know people that can recite scripture very well and short of listening to them their lives reflect the rest of the world. I met a pastor who went to seminary and he spent a lot of time trying to make me understand that Genesis is flawed. Not in agreement with him he supported his assertion by telling me he wrote his thesis on it in seminary.

    I know many people all walks of life some well educated, some wealthy, some not that have a relationship with God that is so evident not only in word but their lives. I do not believe that man teaches man about God ........... yes we are to study but true understanding comes from revelation and revelation from God.


    peter

    Hold me close my loving Savior
    Fill this heart to love like You
    Lead this life to be like Jesus
    Its all I want to do
    Your will is so precious
    It's where I need to be
    Loving my savior
    For all the world to see

    peter
     
    Ravindran, Major and Silk says Amen and like this.
  4. Wouldn't you say that you should first be living the word before you share it. Then the person you are sharing with would want to be like you and be more open to what you shared?
     
  5. We all sin so not one of us lives the Word perfectly. I don't want someone to be like me for I am flawed. I want them to be like Christ.
     
  6. I absolutely agree that there is more to God than just Scripture.
    At the risk of starting some debates, there is His holy Church, there is His kingdom, and naturally, there is God Himself (in the form of the father, the son, and the holy ghost).

    There's the ministry of our actions through His will, the communion of saints, and the all-around body of Christ.

    Scripture is incredibly valuable because it really is the written word of God given to us through His followers. It's one of the most valuable gifts given to us by Him.
     
  7. as i understand the question: what is of more value: experience or scriptures.?

    I would say, all our own life experience is not enough to learn things… we need to learn from other people life experiences

    And yet, all of those experiences is not even comparable to the teachings we can learn from the scriptures…
     
    Silk and JG27_chili say Amen and like this.
  8. The scriptures are just a map to get one to the person of Jesus from wherever their starting point is. The scriptures are a photo album filled with snapshots of humanity over time. Every example is for our edification, to get us closer to God. No part of it is irrelevant, and where there seems to be contradictions ("Keep the Law!!" vs. "You're free from the Law!!") is the same as that of gravity vs. flying. One law supersedes another law. The scriptures are merely a book about life. Life is what you want, not stories about it. As with a photo album, it cannot capture the wonder of the reality. If I show you a picture of the Grand Canyon you'd say "Wow! That's beautiful!" but if you go to the Grand Canyon you'd say "WOW!! I had no idea! Word's can't express the beauty!", that's what the scriptures are to the truth. It's like saying, "Mt. Everest is a mountain.", a true fact, but until you're there and experience it for yourself, that's all it'll be to you, a fact. Once you experience the power of the realm of the Kingdom of Heaven, you're just quoting facts.

    As to the societies vs. the word of God, anyone who is wronged in their own eyes demands justice. That's not a society-taught belief, but an ingrained part of who we are apart from society. We can teach our kids stealing is ok, but when they become the victim, even if society says it's ok, they're going to feel wronged. That's because the very word of God isn't just written on paper, but written on our very hearts. Atheists, when all accusations are answered, still reject God because if they recognized God as God, they'd have to listen and obey God. They want to stay right in their own eyes. DNA proves God. The atoms in DNA are just letters, but it takes a Mind to write out a narrative. Information is non-material, so it cannot just appear no more than the letters randomly appearing to produce this intelligent response. The scriptures say that God created everything with Wisdom and no matter what science is used, in the end they all must conclude that a Mind was involved with existence, because one clue leads to another and then to another and to yet more until there's nothing left but the Mind. They call it metaphysics - the study of thought/being - which is really the study of God Almighty, the Mind they cannot escape. Look up Ravi Zacharias is you want more on how simple logic dictates God's existence.
     
    Silk and JG27_chili say Amen and like this.

  9. I feel the same way sometimes. Scripture is valuable for the lessons it teaches and I doubt I'd be the same if I wasn't christian. However, I feel like god is with all of us in some way. Whenever we make a decision or think about doing something wrong. Just a thought
     
  10. Now, it's true that you can be 100% sold out for Jesus and not really know much scripture... Let's face it - the availability of printed scripture is really a fairly new development... There is a GREAT Gulf between "Knowing Scripture" and "Knowing God".....

    The thing is, though - if you don't know scripture, you can really get turned around backwards by people who have taken efforts to mistranslate and misapply scripture to their own ends... Those guys know that... and that's why they don't prey on Apologists - they go after people who don't know scripture because they haven't studied "Truth" sufficiently to be able to distinguish it from "Error"

    Thanks
     
    Silk likes this.
  11. Scripture is important, so is a relationship with God. Scripture is God's word and sometime cannot be understood; however God can tell us through prayer and a healthy relationship with God what we must do and how to interpret scripture.
    Let's trust God, after-all it is His word.
     
    Ph8th likes this.
  12. I agree, I believe relationship is why we were created. We have this awesome God Who's love is infinite, it is not something that He does it is something that He is. If He were only 99.9% of any His attributes He would not be God. <AW Tozer
    The out pouring of God's heart is seen throughout the whole bible from genesis to revelation. His desire was to be our God and we to be His people. He desired to provide and be our portion in all things. It was man who chose to be independent, we still do it. There are so many times we cry out and tell God we will not do as we do anymore but there is a remnant of my adamic nature that brings us right back to self.

    We need to praise Him for not forsaking us!

    A friend once told me we have a genesis God, I finally got it..... Every minute every second every breath is a beginning with God

    Hallelujah

    peter
     
    / likes this.

  13. There is the body of truth and the Spirit of truth . Many take the letter and consider not the Spirit .
    But if a mans words cannot be heard or understood unless he gives his breath and life to them.
    How much less is God heard or understood?
    For while a man can understand English or Greek or Hebrew. That does not guarentee at all you will understand what god is saying .
    For what are words? If not expressions of thought?
    Now a mans thoughts are hidden (unless God revealed them) to you or I . The God given way to express that which is hidden is by words.
    But the thought or the concept or the thing yu seek to express is or should be already formed in you and as it were is whole or perfect .
    But the nature of words is that they can only be said one word at a time .Thus you have to hear the man out as it were or let him finish before you can understand or "see" what he is saying .
    If you do in very truth understand what you are seeking to express then what was hidden in them is reproduced in you and your understanding is the same as theirs and you "see" what they see and there is then very often ;what I call the smile of recognition .That is to say the hearer sees in the eyes of the hearer that they have understood and see it and the hearer having seen sees it also in the speaker . and they recognise it is so and agree and usually smile.
    I too used to wonder at the fact that God is infinite but the Bible is not .In that it has a beginning and an end and a certain number of words and pages .
    God is not afraid of questions .Just let them be on the foundation of belief and not on unbelief . For if you ask on a foundation of unbelief then you will not receive anything and you will simply be encouraged in your ignorance .
    Or in the case of John the Baptists father who was struck dumb for 6months .
    But in the case of Mary who believed she who had was given more light .
    So how do you reconcile the two? A God who is infinite and the Bible which is not.?
    The devil would have you and some to think then we don't need the Bible . Yet the Bible itself says "all scripture is inspired by God and is good for correction reproof and instruction in righteousness .............." So lets not believe the devil and go down that road.
    But rather believe God and get our thinking straight and more settled in Him.
    Jesus said in that parable which "if we understood would understand all parables that "the seed is the Word"
    Now when John said that" if everything that Jesus said and did had been written down then the world would not have been able to contain all the books thereof"
    Thus not all that Jesus said and did WAS written down . But the Holy Spirit inspired them to write down what was needful "that you might know that Jesus is the Christ "
    So too then the Bible . It as a seed.
    A seed is not the fruit nor the tree from whence it came . But it has everything that IS needed and nothing that is NOT needed to reproduce the fruit.
    Jesus was God manifested in the flesh and while he walked in the flesh the disciples only knew Hi m "after (limitation)the flesh" But after the resurrection and in particular after the day of Pentecost they would know Him after the Spirit without limitation . For the Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of truth .The Holy Spirit.
    Thus the Father is greater than the Son. In the respect of that the one who speaks is greater than the Word that is spoken . and the Word that is spoken does not do His own will but the will of Him that speaketh .
    "Only the father hath life in Himself and he ahs also given this to the Son who ahs life in Himself .
    "He then that ahs the Son has life ,he that has not the Son has not even seen life"
    What more can one say ? "Unless a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die it abideth alone .But if it die it bringeth forth much fruit"
    if you add to the seed .It has no life in it .
    If you take from the seed it has no life in it to reproduce the fruit .
    So then the Word of God .The Bible .

    in Christ
    gerald
     
  14. The only remedy for the old man is to crucify it and then bury it .

    in Christ
    Gerald
     
    Major likes this.
  15. Well Peter, your friend is very wise.
    God is great and has a plan for all our lives. We must trust in Him no matter how difficult the situation.
     
  16. The scriptures are not given that w e might have a of of Biblical knowledge . For look at Saul of Tarsus .
    They are there that they might lead us to know the God of the Bible .
    But don't think we can know God without it .For if we neglect it we will go astray .
    The way to distinguish truth from error is by the Spirit of truth by whom ".........we may know the spirit of error "
    The reason why there are so many vain debates between professing Christians is because at best they have purely an intellectual and carnal approach to scripture which cannot receive the spiritual things of God .
    For the intellect in, of and by itself is a false light and needs must have every thought in free and willing submission to the Spirit of truth who will and does and can ,lead any man "...........into all truth"
    While a young Christian can be all out for God and often are ("first love" ) they needs must come to understand that they need to study the scriptures to show themselves approved of by God . if they wish to gow in grace and in the knowledge of God .
    For a man with the Word and not the Spirit will dry up.
    A man with the Spirit and not the Word will blow up .
    But a man with the Word and the Spirit will grow up.
    in Christ
     
  17. Well said brother!
     
  18. Could our creation also be because God wanted to fellowship with us?
     
  19. There was a time when very few Protestant ministers had any correct Biblical knowledge. They were wonderful men who felt the call of God to preach but simply did not have any education to speak of. They sound good but many times said the wrong things that that still leads to vain debates today within the church of God.

    The problem is not that they did not have the enthousiasm for God but that they tended to preach what THEY thought and many times that was simply wrong.
     
  20. Gerald I agree 100%
    This is something I read years ago: Seemingly there are many sins but that is just seemingly, they are just branches connected to one evil root and that evil root is self. The only remedy is the cross.<< AW Tozer pursuit of man.


    peter

    My beautiful Savior
    Lover of my soul
    All the times I'm broken
    You always leave me whole
    Mysteries in what You do
    Things I do not understand
    It's because You are God
    I am just a man
    peter
     

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