WHAT IS THE KINGDOM OF GOD?

I am at a lose as how to explain it further to you. Luke 6:14 clearly states that Philip was an Apostle.

Luke 6:14 (again)
"Simon, (whom he also named Peter,) and Andrew his brother, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew".

Are you saying that the name PHILIP in verse 14 is NOT the name PHILIP?

As for Stephan.....he was specifically chosen by the apostles, and again this proves the point of what is called an "apostolic legate", or a chosen representative of the apostles.
What about the "gifts" of the Holy Spirit? Did they cease with the apostles or are they for us today?
 
What about the "gifts" of the Holy Spirit? Did they cease with the apostles or are they for us today?

IMO....Yes!. They were called the "Sign Gifts" for a reason my brother. They were given to the apostles that validated their gospel message. When the Bible was completed and canonized there no longer remained a need for any validation as we then had the completed Word of God.

Matthew 28:18.....
"And Jesus came and spake unto them (Apostles) saying, ALL power is given unto me in heaven and in earth".

Mark 16:14-16......
"Later He appeared to the ELEVEN as they sat at the table; and He rebuked THEIR unbelief and hardness of heart, because THEY did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15 And He said to THEM, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

Hebrews 2:1-4.....
"Therefore we (Apostles) must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we (Apostles) drift away. 2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, 3 how shall we
(Apostles) escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us (Apostles) by those (Apostles) who heard Him, 4 God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?"

I understand how difficult it is to grasp what I have said, and of course you are free to disagree with me but How else can the above verse be understood if that is not the case??????
 
IMO....Yes!. They were called the "Sign Gifts" for a reason my brother. They were given to the apostles that validated their gospel message. When the Bible was completed and canonized there no longer remained a need for any validation as we then had the completed Word of God.

Matthew 28:18.....
"And Jesus came and spake unto them (Apostles) saying, ALL power is given unto me in heaven and in earth".

Mark 16:14-16......
"Later He appeared to the ELEVEN as they sat at the table; and He rebuked THEIR unbelief and hardness of heart, because THEY did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15 And He said to THEM, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

Hebrews 2:1-4.....
"Therefore we (Apostles) must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we (Apostles) drift away. 2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, 3 how shall we
(Apostles) escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us (Apostles) by those (Apostles) who heard Him, 4 God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?"

I understand how difficult it is to grasp what I have said, and of course you are free to disagree with me but How else can the above verse be understood if that is not the case??????
Major, would you agree with me that through prayer God still does "miracles"?
I myself do believe in the gifts of the Spirit for today, and I know you do not, but that is ok. Miracles still do happen maybe not in how we both think they do.
 
Major, would you agree with me that through prayer God still does "miracles"?
I myself do believe in the gifts of the Spirit for today, and I know you do not, but that is ok. Miracles still do happen maybe not in how we both think they do.

Absolutely my brother!!! I never said that He didn't!!!! GOD certainly does and we have verification in James 5:13-16 concerning heaing...........
"Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much."

My contention is that A MAN does not have the Holy Spirit at his beck and call to come and heal anyone sick and or suffering. IMO the Holy Spirit is not sitting and waiting on some person to fetch Him to work a healing in a suffering person.

The action we see today where Dr. So and So rents a stadium, advertises his appearance, whips the crowd into a frenzy and then turns the adrenaline lose is IMO an abomination. God just does not work that way.

I know that there are lots of people who believe that is the way to go but I am not one of them.

It is no problem to disagree with me my brother as I am no authority figure on anything. I am just an old country boy sharing my experiences and thoughts so feel free to disagree as it does not effect my love for you.

I would however ask your thoughts on the Scriptures from
comment #22 concerning Matt., Mark and Hebrews that I posed. How do you understand the meaning of those Scriptures???
 
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Absolutely my brother!!! I never said that He didn't!!!!

I would however ask your thoughts on the Scriptures from
comment #22 concerning Matt., Mark and Hebrews that I posed
. How do you understand the meaning of those Scriptures???

I can agree that Jesus appeared to his "apostles" in Matt 16, and he told them these signs shall follow them that believe, but I do not see where he said these signs will only follow the apostles themselves. We also see in another scripture, Jesus saying the same thing about who soever shall believe in Jesus will the same works as Jesus.

Joh 14:12 "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father.
 
I can agree that Jesus appeared to his "apostles" in Matt 16, and he told them these signs shall follow them that believe, but I do not see where he said these signs will only follow the apostles themselves. We also see in another scripture, Jesus saying the same thing about who soever shall believe in Jesus will the same works as Jesus.

Joh 14:12 "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father.

All the way back to Moses in Ex. 4:1.......
"And Moses answered and said, But, behold, they will not believe me, nor hearken unto my voice: for they will say, The LORD hath not appeared unto thee. "

Moses wanted to know why the Israelites would listen to the message of deliverance God had given him. God responded by giving his three signs to convince the Jews that the word Moses spoke was really from God.
Ex. 4:1-9.....
[1] "And Moses answered and said, But, behold, they will not believe me, nor hearken unto my voice: for they will say, The LORD hath not appeared unto thee. [2] And the LORD said unto him, What is that in thine hand? And he said, A rod. [3] And he said, Cast it on the ground. And he cast it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from before it. [4] And the LORD said unto Moses, Put forth thine hand, and take it by the tail. And he put forth his hand, and caught it, and it became a rod in his hand: [5] That they may believe that the LORD God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath appeared unto thee. [6] And the LORD said furthermore unto him, Put now thine hand into thy bosom. And he put his hand into his bosom: and when he took it out, behold, his hand was leprous as snow. [7] And he said, Put thine hand into thy bosom again. And he put his hand into his bosom again; and plucked it out of his bosom, and, behold, it was turned again as his other flesh. [8] And it shall come to pass, if they will not believe thee, neither hearken to the voice of the first sign, that they will believe the voice of the latter sign. [9] And it shall come to pass, if they will not believe also these two signs, neither hearken unto thy voice, that thou shalt take of the water of the river, and pour it upon the dry land: and the water which thou takest out of the river shall become blood upon the dry land."

These verses are the first use of miraculous signs in the Bible and this passage shows us their original intent. Signs were used to authenticate the spoken word. They verified that the message spoken by a man was indeed from God.

Matthew 24:24 ...........
"For false Christ's and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect".

Is it legitimate, then, to say that God does not work miracles today as you already asked?

We must be careful to distinguish between a divinely-wrought miracle and a sign gift. Our sovereign, omnipotent God is fully able to perform a miracle any time, anywhere, and any way He pleases. But not all miracles are meant as signs, and a miracle is not necessarily the result of a charismatic gift from a specific person.

By way of contrast, a one-time miracle does not constitute a sign gift—especially if there was no human agent involved. It is appropriate to pray to God for help when we are sick, impoverished, or threatened by our adversaries, and to have the confidence that He is fully able to provide that help as is told to us in James 5.

Have you observed that most often, God comes to our aid through the ordinary course of providence through GRACE in ways that are not really miraculous. God is often pleased to provide healing to one diagnosed with an incurable disease, or to provide unexpected victory to an army that is hopelessly outnumbered.

So to answer your question, "Miracles, then, do occur in our day", but not as the result of individuals having a special gifting to work miracles. When miracles occur, IMHO, they are intended as expressions of divine mercy and God's grace to those in distress, and are not intended as extravagant displays of divine power to the unsaved world at large.
 
I can agree that Jesus appeared to his "apostles" in Matt 16, and he told them these signs shall follow them that believe, but I do not see where he said these signs will only follow the apostles themselves. We also see in another scripture, Jesus saying the same thing about who soever shall believe in Jesus will the same works as Jesus.

Joh 14:12 "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father.

I hear what you are saying. I at one time could even go along with your thinking. But, I think the greater works
Jesus has in mind are not greater miracles in terms of signs and wonders as you are thinking. Instead, the greater
works done by those who believe in Jesus refer to the work of the Spirit in people's hearts, a work of the Spirit that has greater dimensions now that Jesus has ascended to the Father. There are several arguments that support my thinking and I will give you the most obvious :.............
The "greater works" cannot refer to signs and wonders that are greater in quality than those done by Jesus because no believer ever has or ever will do greater miracles than Jesus. He raised the dead, opened the eyes of the blind, restored hearing to the deaf, cast out demons, healed the lame, calmed a stormy sea, etc. No miracle-worker has even come close since the days of the apostles, and even the apostles did not do any signs and wonders that were greater.
 
I hear what you are saying. I at one time could even go along with your thinking. But, I think the greater works
Jesus has in mind are not greater miracles in terms of signs and wonders as you are thinking. Instead, the greater
works done by those who believe in Jesus refer to the work of the Spirit in people's hearts, a work of the Spirit that has greater dimensions now that Jesus has ascended to the Father. There are several arguments that support my thinking and I will give you the most obvious :.............
The "greater works" cannot refer to signs and wonders that are greater in quality than those done by Jesus because no believer ever has or ever will do greater miracles than Jesus. He raised the dead, opened the eyes of the blind, restored hearing to the deaf, cast out demons, healed the lame, calmed a stormy sea, etc. No miracle-worker has even come close since the days of the apostles, and even the apostles did not do any signs and wonders that were greater.

Because Jesus has ascended and sent us His Spirit, we are now able by His power to do all the same works of Christ and throughout the world, where Jesus was not able to do in three years. Raising the dead, healing, deliverance and many other miracles are wrought by Him through His people.

What hinders is lack of faith, and poor teaching, such as cessationism.
 
I hear what you are saying. I at one time could even go along with your thinking. But, I think the greater works
Jesus has in mind are not greater miracles in terms of signs and wonders as you are thinking. Instead, the greater
works done by those who believe in Jesus refer to the work of the Spirit in people's hearts, a work of the Spirit that has greater dimensions now that Jesus has ascended to the Father. There are several arguments that support my thinking and I will give you the most obvious :.............
The "greater works" cannot refer to signs and wonders that are greater in quality than those done by Jesus because no believer ever has or ever will do greater miracles than Jesus. He raised the dead, opened the eyes of the blind, restored hearing to the deaf, cast out demons, healed the lame, calmed a stormy sea, etc. No miracle-worker has even come close since the days of the apostles, and even the apostles did not do any signs and wonders that were greater.
I understand where you are coming from and see your point. I do believe that the works Jesus did, the Church, or should I say those who believe should do. Not better in quality (greater), but only greater in numbers as Jesus now lives in his saints. There will always be a counterfeit to the real, as Satan transforms himself into a angel of light so as to deceive. There is a false tongues, healing, and so on... Those who are children of God should be able to detect these false things according to the anointing we have from him.
 
I understand where you are coming from and see your point. I do believe that the works Jesus did, the Church, or should I say those who believe should do. Not better in quality (greater), but only greater in numbers as Jesus now lives in his saints. There will always be a counterfeit to the real, as Satan transforms himself into a angel of light so as to deceive.

Totally agreed!!!! What a blessing!!!

Now.......you said.........
" There will always be a counterfeit to the real, as Satan transforms himself into a angel of light so as to deceive."

Absolutely Correct and I also agree with you. However that is the problem as I see it. Way to many people are becoming caught up in EMOTIONS and adrenalin and have pushed the doctrine of God's Word aside and are participating in what makes them feel good and closer to God. There is no question that there is an emotion feeling at some Church services but what has to be determined is .......is it of God or is it of the devil.

My brother, I promise you that it is very, very difficult to get that point across to those who are rooted in their religious dogma.
I can not tell you how many thread right hear on this site have been ended by our mods because we could not carry on a Christian dialog. It always turns into a confrontation and becomes personal.

I am pleased that we have been able to have this conversation.

Matthew 24:5
"For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many."
 
Because Jesus has ascended and sent us His Spirit, we are now able by His power to do all the same works of Christ and throughout the world, where Jesus was not able to do in three years. Raising the dead, healing, deliverance and many other miracles are wrought by Him through His people.

What hinders is lack of faith, and poor teaching, such as cessationism.

We have communicated before and I have no desire to argue with you. I completely understand your position of Word of Faith, I just do not agree with it. It has been my observation over the years that the prosperity gospel, also known as the “Word of Faith,” the believer is told to use God, whereas the truth of biblical Christianity is just the opposite—God uses the believer.

Word of Faith or prosperity theology sees the Holy Spirit as a power to be put to use for whatever the believer wills. In fact you just did that in your post. The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is a Person who enables the believer to do God's will. The prosperity gospel movement closely resembles some of the destructive greed sects that infiltrated the early church. Paul and the other apostles were not accommodating to or conciliatory with the false teachers who propagated such heresy. They identified them as dangerous false teachers and urged Christians to avoid them. I did not say that......Paul did.

What you call poor teaching of cessationism --I call correct Bible doctrine.

We, believers will do more than Jesus did because He was in one place (Israel) and was one man, the God-man. Now believers are worldwide and have more opportunities to lead lost sinners to Christ.

As for raising the dead, it is ot going to happen my sister and has not happened except where we see it in the Scriptures.
If you choose to believe such things then my God bless you. It is your choice and I wish you well.
 
We have communicated before and I have no desire to argue with you. I completely understand your position of Word of Faith, I just do not agree with it. It has been my observation over the years that the prosperity gospel, also known as the “Word of Faith,” the believer is told to use God, whereas the truth of biblical Christianity is just the opposite—God uses the believer.

Word of Faith or prosperity theology sees the Holy Spirit as a power to be put to use for whatever the believer wills. In fact you just did that in your post. The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is a Person who enables the believer to do God's will. The prosperity gospel movement closely resembles some of the destructive greed sects that infiltrated the early church. Paul and the other apostles were not accommodating to or conciliatory with the false teachers who propagated such heresy. They identified them as dangerous false teachers and urged Christians to avoid them. I did not say that......Paul did.

What you call poor teaching of cessationism --I call correct Bible doctrine.

We, believers will do more than Jesus did because He was in one place (Israel) and was one man, the God-man. Now believers are worldwide and have more opportunities to lead lost sinners to Christ.

As for raising the dead, it is ot going to happen my sister and has not happened except where we see it in the Scriptures.
If you choose to believe such things then my God bless you. It is your choice and I wish you well.

I am NOT Word of Faith. So, you can stop with that nonsense right now.

Cessationism is a false doctrine, one of limited faith. God desires to work by His Spirit to do all the works of Christ and more in and through His people, to touch the world with His great love, and to bring them to the knowledge of Jesus Christ. He is still in the business of raising the dead, healing and delivering today, just as He always was. He is only limited by lack of faith.
 
I am NOT Word of Faith. So, you can stop with that nonsense right now.

Cessationism is a false doctrine, one of limited faith. God desires to work by His Spirit to do all the works of Christ and more in and through His people, to touch the world with His great love, and to bring them to the knowledge of Jesus Christ. He is still in the business of raising the dead, healing and delivering today, just as He always was. He is only limited by lack of faith.

May the Lord bless you sister. You are not going to intimidate me with words so you might want to save your energy and your not so veiled accusations of not having enough faith.

There are some in cults who claim to have raised the dead, but credible evidence has never been produced. The many blatantly unbiblical teachings within the such movements raise serious doubts regarding the legitimacy of any of their miracles. Some practitioners of voodoo and witchcraft also claim to have raised people from the dead but they too have absolutely no proof.
 
May the Lord bless you sister. You are not going to intimidate me with words so you might want to save your energy and your not so veiled accusations of not having enough faith.

There are some in cults who claim to have raised the dead, but credible evidence has never been produced. The many blatantly unbiblical teachings within the such movements raise serious doubts regarding the legitimacy of any of their miracles. Some practitioners of voodoo and witchcraft also claim to have raised people from the dead but they too have absolutely no proof.

God is God all the time and never changes. His people in Christ have the same power in and through them as Jesus did and as the apostles did. In Christ the dead are still raised, the blind are given sight, the sick are healed, despite what you think or speak. This has NOTHING to do with a movement, but only on the promises and provision of God Almighty. Glory to God!
 
God is God all the time and never changes. His people in Christ have the same power in and through them as Jesus did and as the apostles did. In Christ the dead are still raised, the blind are given sight, the sick are healed, despite what you think or speak. This has NOTHING to do with a movement, but only on the promises and provision of God Almighty. Glory to God!

God can and does do anything He chooses to do. However I do not believe that any man has that ability to raise the dead etc. so I guess we are going to be in disagreement about that. I do not know why you have adopted such an adversarial position. I am not your enemy in any way.

Without question the Bible describes God as unchangeable, eternal, immutable always existing. Whatever he reveals of himself as is eternal . All his attributes are eternal, as they flow from his infinite nature who’s essence is also eternal, unchangeable.

God himself says to the Son in Heb.1:10" And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands... and they shall be changed: but thou art the same,( quote of Psalm 102:25)

Mal.3:6 " I the Lord do not change. The God of the scriptures is presented as eternal in his nature, unchanging.

The Bible teaches that God is eternal Duet. 33:27 Ps.90:2 " From everlasting to everlasting you are God."

2 Corth. 12:7-10.........
“To keep me from being conceited . . . there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.”
 
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Men cannot raise people from the dead, but the power of God does through His people.

Matthew 10:8
8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cure those with leprosy, and cast out demons. Give as freely as you have received!
 
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2Pe 3:10 ButG1161 theG3588 dayG2250 of the LordG2962 will comeG2240 asG5613 a thiefG2812 inG1722 the night;G3571 inG1722 the whichG3739 theG3588 heavensG3772 shall pass awayG3928 with a great noise,G4500 andG1161 the elementsG4747 shall meltG3089 with fervent heat,G2741 the earthG1093 alsoG2532 andG2532 theG3588 worksG2041 that are thereinG1722 G846 shall be burned up.G2618
G2618 κατακαίω katakaiō kat-ak-ah'ee-o
From G2596 and G2545; to burn down (to the ground), that is, consume wholly: - burn (up, utterly).
 
Men cannot raise people from the dead, but the power of God does through His people.

Matthew 10:8
8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cure those with leprosy, and cast out demons. Give as freely as you have received!

And when we consider CONTEXT we see that in Matthew 10:1 Jesus says......
"And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease."

Matthew 10:2................
"Now the names of the twelve apostles are these.................".

Matthew 10:5.............
"These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. "

Then we come to verse #8 and see ....
"Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give."

We see clearly that the TWELVE were given power/authority. That is exactly what I have been saying!!!!
THEIR miracle working ministry was to prove the legitimate claim of Jesus as the Messiah.
 
What Jesus has bestowed on His twelve, He bestows on the multitudes that make up His body in this dark world by His Spirit, our enabler. Praise God!
 
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