An innocent child would not be ordered to be murdered by God...killed maybe but that is only cessation of this order of existence, if innocent they would still live...only with Him! But really where are you going with this (though I really already know I want you to give your example)
What Is God?
- Thread starter workmx
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An innocent child would not be ordered to be murdered by God...killed maybe but that is only cessation of this order of existence, if innocent they would still live...only with Him! But really where are you going with this (though I really already know I want you to give your example)
I cannot even think to imagine His motives...the why questions are difficult in any realm...for example why is the water on my stove boiling?
workmx
Inactive
That kind of sounds like me saying: "I have an imaginary freind, prove that he doesn't exist."
Sounds ridiculous, right?
workmx
Inactive
Just probing the limits of your reaction to possible divine commands.
workmx
Inactive
Because it has been affected by an falsifiable heat source.
Why questions are only troublemsome to that which cannot be falsified... like gods.
Seriously though: why would a perfect god sully their perfect creation (a world with the only perfect being, god itself) with imperfect non-god objects and beings? Seems a very strange thing to do.
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workmx
Inactive
Have you heard of the Lunar Laser Ranging experiment. It is a current program that measures the distance between the earth and the moon using lasers fired at reflectors placed on the surface of the Moon by Apollo 11, 14 and 15. The time between the firing of the laser and when it retrurns tells us the distance between earth and moon. If the laser did not return the existence of the moon whould be falsified.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_experiment
With eternal torture in the mix, your god is playing favorites? I don’t like your god. In fact, I suspect that your god is fundamentally immoral.
No Favorites…all have an equal opportunity…He provides many, many chances within this life…(I know as I was an agnostic for 30 years raised by a naturalist father…my vocation is Clinical Trial Assistant…yup science!!!)
You do not realize the breadth of what you have implied here…and I know you do not like the true and living God…
Imagine for a moment such a God exists…if God loves you, and you want nothing to do with Him or anything He would provide…when you pass from this existence what is He to do with you…surely He is not going to force you to be with Him for eternity…so He has made a place where all of you can go…we call it gehenna…you having rejected His Lordship insist on being your own lord, deciding good and evil for yourself…
So you will find yourself in a place where your ultimate wish comes true….a place He has created where you will not sense His presence nor be bothered by Him or His….you will be your own lord there (just what you wanted)…of course you will be all alone because two lords cannot co-exist without conflict…there will be absolutely no light (because that was His idea), no fellowship with others (because that was His idea). No one to speak with, because speaking was His idea….No orderliness to calm the fires of chaos (because that was His idea), no water, food, touch, yet soulishly still desiring, etc., (because all that was His idea)…and yet you will never cease to exist…you will ever realize that you had every opportunity to seek and know Him and receive His grace but you would not…this is your torture, your everlasting punishment…You will always know it was always you who brought this upon yourself but will never cease to exist…He wanted all this for you but you wanted to be utterly apart from Him.
God takes no pleasure in this spiritual death you will ever endure…but it’s not too late…please, if this is your choice that is fine with me but do not encourage your loved ones to end up in that place…God only made the place because He knew some would never repent…God does not even take pleasure in the death (spiritual death is eternal separation from Him) of the wicked, how much more grevious to see you prefer such a destiny…
No Favorites…all have an equal opportunity…He provides many, many chances within this life…(I know as I was an agnostic for 30 years raised by a naturalist father…my vocation is Clinical Trial Assistant…yup science!!!)
You do not realize the breadth of what you have implied here…and I know you do not like the true and living God…
Imagine for a moment such a God exists…if God loves you, and you want nothing to do with Him or anything He would provide…when you pass from this existence what is He to do with you…surely He is not going to force you to be with Him for eternity…so He has made a place where all of you can go…we call it gehenna…you having rejected His Lordship insist on being your own lord, deciding good and evil for yourself…
So you will find yourself in a place where your ultimate wish comes true….a place He has created where you will not sense His presence nor be bothered by Him or His….you will be your own lord there (just what you wanted)…of course you will be all alone because two lords cannot co-exist without conflict…there will be absolutely no light (because that was His idea), no fellowship with others (because that was His idea). No one to speak with, because speaking was His idea….No orderliness to calm the fires of chaos (because that was His idea), no water, food, touch, yet soulishly still desiring, etc., (because all that was His idea)…and yet you will never cease to exist…you will ever realize that you had every opportunity to seek and know Him and receive His grace but you would not…this is your torture, your everlasting punishment…You will always know it was always you who brought this upon yourself but will never cease to exist…He wanted all this for you but you wanted to be utterly apart from Him.
God takes no pleasure in this spiritual death you will ever endure…but it’s not too late…please, if this is your choice that is fine with me but do not encourage your loved ones to end up in that place…God only made the place because He knew some would never repent…God does not even take pleasure in the death (spiritual death is eternal separation from Him) of the wicked, how much more grevious to see you prefer such a destiny…
See? You did not answer the why question you gave me the how...
So because you cannot disprove God He must be unknowable...can't you see how utterly illogical that idea is?No I suppose not...
But it did, and besides there could be any number of reasons the return signal was not received if it had not been, and thus does not prove the non-existence of the moon only that the return signal was not received....you see?
The erroneous nature of the example is contained in the very absurd premise...the fact that reflectors were put on the moon demonstrates already that the moon exists...
workmx
Inactive
Okay. I will play. Why? Because you turned on the stove/kettle/microwave/whatever.
Now it is time for your non-sequitur. Your god turned on the universe, right?
He did, but I was not going there....I was just showing the limitation of what you accept as reasonable...you asked why's that cannot be answered
workmx
Inactive
Pascal's wager! Hmm... What if god loves atheists and by praying to god you are making it more and more angry?
What if jesus/yahweh is a sub-set of amaterasu - who in the shinto religion contains all other gods within herself? Thus, you are blaspheming her by worshipping them?
What if you are just a dream inside the mind of amatersu?
workmx
Inactive
I don't know what happened before the big bang and neither do you.
The only difference between us, is I admit it.
Ah!!! That was not Pascal's wager....and God does love atheists but they do not love Him...
Before the big bang was God...that much I know and only that...but before is one of those human limitations again since it implies time which began at big bang...
So how is God immoral from your perspective? Take your time because I have to go at this moment...I cannot say how soon I will be back...but I will address you issues when I return...have a great evening and be well...
workmx
Inactive
Not my perspective - your perspective:
Finally, you would have to be aware of all that which is and/or has been known or experienced by all individuals of all times in case He had revealed Himself to only certain peoples at certain times.
And I said, With eternal torture in the mix, your god is playing favourites?
No more strawmen please.
workmx
Inactive
Cool - when is Science or Nature publishing your proof that god existed before the big bang?