What if there was no reward?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Softly, Jul 20, 2015.

  1. What if there was no reward in heaven or no rapture, would you still try and be a good person. Do we need a reason to be compassionate and kind, thoughtful of others regardless of what they have done to us, does another person dictate our reactions or do we, through self knowledge and understanding, choose compassion and react with kindness. What does being a good person mean to you, how have you implemented your interpretation of being a good person in your every day life. To what degree is the gospel the reason for being a good person and to what degree is goodness itself, reason enough to be a good person. Do we need a reward for kindness.
    Flavio and autumn oddity say Amen and like this.
  2. It's futile for any of us to try to be a "good person", for God says no one is good, and that the human heart is unspeakably wicked.

    Romans 3:11-12
    No one is truly wise;
    no one is seeking God.
    12 All have turned away;
    all have become useless.
    No one does good,
    not a single one.”

    Jeremiah 17:9
    “The human heart is the most deceitful of all things,
    and desperately wicked.
    Who really knows how bad it is?

    No one can be a "good person" under his own steam or by his own striving. We as Christians have undergone an inner change, and have become what the bible teaches is "the new man", as Holy Spirit actually moves into our spirits and transforms us from the inside out, so that we begin to think differently, and have an aversion to sin where there never was before. He empowers us to live the way the Lord wants us to live and we have a whole new paradigm, desiring to please our Father and to bring glory to Him. Anything that people would deem as good in us we attribute to Jesus in us as he now lives His life in and through us!
    Flavio, pt6615, Juk and 2 others say Amen and like this.
  3. For me the bigest reward is simply knowing God has my back and best intrest at heart. I mean in all my pre-saved days - nothing compares with the joy and happiness I have each and every day being with God in Christ.
    God Bless
    Rezz, pt6615, Euphemia and 1 other person say Amen and like this.
  4. For me....if i didn't have Jesus in my heart and life, i would not be the person that i am today. A long time ago when i was in my twenty's i knew the Lord and attended church, read my Bible and prayed....but i was not a good example to my family. I truly didn't know how to walk in Love as Jesus commands. So to learn and make the decision to be a doer of the Word is key to loving others. Its not automatic. Its something that we have to renew our minds to because of our natural bent towards sin.
    pt6615 and Fish Catcher Jim say Amen and like this.
  5. I think that even in atheist times I always had some conception of right and wrong, and in a funny sort of way that there was something I might call "The Truth" that is greater than me.

    Don't get me wrong. I've been places and done things that are wrong many times and my own conceptions of what might be right or wrong have changed over the years.

    For all my failures though, I'd say this "truth" has been more important than some kind of reward and I still can't really see what heaven may be like. I sort of get there is something if I could find it that I'd sell everything for but I'm no closer to finding it.

    So I keep making messes but would say it's this conception that there is "the truth" that maybe keeps me going. That and mysterious thing we call our conscious. I'm a walking disaster at times but I sort of know there is this greater than me "right" if I only could find it properly.
  6. I could maybe add one other thing. The thought's of hell do scare me. I find it hard enough trying to get by in this world and believe there could be worse places.
  7. #7 KingJ, Jul 20, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2015
    Yes, this is why Christianity cannot be faked. We desire what is good > evil expecting no reward Luke 6:35. Our love for God is genuine when we hate what is evil and cling to what is good Rom 12:9. We all make mistakes but God looks at the heart. If we hate what is evil and yet still do it, we will repent. When we repent of our sins truthfully He finds us James 4:8, Psalm 51:17.

    All of us with a working brain know what is good and what is evil. I would just argue that not all are as aware as they should be of mortal sins to God. We all know of mortal sins like not murdering and committing adultery (hating fellow man). But we don't all actively recognize mortal sins like idolatry and homosexuality (hating God).

    The gospel has helped me hundredfold in being a better person. John 13:34-35 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

    Ie if we love one another as God has loved us all will know that we are of God. How has God loved us? = John 3:16 He laid His life down for us. Made Himself as a Lamb to the slaughter. Hence Christianity does not just teach us to be 'good' or selfless as in share your sandwich ....it teaches selflessness plus. It teaches us to love our enemy James 5:44. Those chopping our heads off receive a prayer of forgiveness in our dying breath. We don't just lay our life down for our wife and kids but also our neighbors.

    So now explain to me if you can love your enemy? Can you love the guy that raped your daughter? Will you teach your daughter to love him? Then....what exactly is loving a rapist? It is not just saying 'I forgive you'. It is looking after his assets and family. Visiting him in prison and ensuring he is doing well. Would you do that?
  8. I just want to add. Christians fear hell NOT because our God is evil and has invented many torture devices for His enemies. But rather because we don't want to be without Him. We hate what is evil and we know a separation is coming.
  9. #9 KingJ, Jul 20, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2015
    The underlined is not true. We can't word it like that.

    Nobody can be good enough for God's requirement. But being 'perfect' was never a requirement from us. We got ourselves into Abrahams bosom over Hades in the OT.

    Rom 3 is Paul reasoning with the Jews. Explaining to them that they failed by the law to be worthy of God's righteous requirement. He did not say they all belong in Hades.

    Jer 17:9 is just saying that 1. the human heart can be very evil and 2. only God can grasp how evil. This is not saying all our hearts are on par.
    Softly likes this.
  10. #10 boltardy, Jul 20, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 21, 2015
    I'm not a father. Personal feeling says that if I was and that happened, I would have a big fight on my hands. It would be a bigger challenge than I want to face. My "natural desire" would be to have the bloke slaughtered but you are right. How long it would take me to come to terms with this is something I don't know.

    Closest in real terms I can come to on this is Sophie Hook. I believe here parents were at least able to forgive the crime.

    Me, to my shame, having once been arrested on suspicion of rape (turned out someone thought the way to get attention from her parents was to claim she was raped - and it emerged she in fact had sex with her consent at the time of alleged rape - some guy had the guts to come in to the police station and say he was with her) know my first reaction on that was "thank God I have witnesses to where I was this time).

    Even getting over that sort of thing is hard.

    Quote feature rectified by Fish_of_Faith
  11. To be hones, after being on eearth for the amount of years God grants you, you realize heaven alone is the prize.
  12. I have been raped twice, 14 years old and 19 years old. I don't hate them, I don't think I ever did, i struggled with depression for a few years afterwards and tried to commit suicide but hate, no. One day when meditating I asked if I could be inside the mind of a rapist, to understand why. I learned a lot from that experience, I felt the absolute lust/need/desire that drove them, I felt the dissasociation and what seemed like a rationalised insanity and I knew that it had nothing to do with me, it was about them and I could let go of the pain. I think through understanding and compassion (though never tolerance of rape) I have no bad feelings for either men, that in no way am I affected in life by what has happened. Would I house a man that has abused me? My ex was emotionally and mentally abusive, he has a job in the family business and has to live on the premises for the job, yes I would, because I am not in his head, I do not know his suffering and reasonings why, I don't know how he mentally processes things, I do not know his internal emotional condition to judge him. Can I make a decision not to allow him into my life again as common sense protection and be grateful for the good things he did bring into my life and choose to let go of the anguish, yes I can.
    Flavio, KingJ, Cturtle and 1 other person say Amen and like this.
  13. I think it's really beautiful, truly enlightening to see the passion and love for Jesus and how he has changed your lives, thank you so humbly for sharing so honestly. I do love you all.
    Cturtle and Euphemia say Amen and like this.
  14. It made me sad reading that you find life hard, I do really hope that this passes quickly. I did make a prayer for you when I read your comment.
    boltardy likes this.
  15. I can't put myself in your position but find your understanding in the post interesting. "Rationalised insanity" in particular.
    / likes this.
  16. Yes it is very true! It is worded well. I was saying it a little less harshly than God does for He says that all our own righteousness acts are like filthy, stained menstrual rags.

    Isaiah 64:6a
    We are all infected and impure with sin.
    When we display our righteous deeds,
    they are nothing but filthy rags.

    Truly, you are merely arguing for the sake of argument. I don't respect that.
  17. I take it you not a christian.

    Well, before I was a christian I tried to be good, kind and understanding etc. I soon realised that was fruitless because my goodness could not compare to Gods goodness. My love was nothing to what Jesus did. He gave his life for me.

    After I was saved by believing in Him I realised that I could do nothing without Him. That heaven is promised by Him is a wonderful thing, but being a christian means you can have a taste of heaven now, inside of you, with His peace...and thats a precious thing.
  18. You are right, I'm not Christian, I'm Jewish and I've seen Jesus, I believe in Jesus, I know he was God/the son of God, I know I can never be as good as he was, I can never love as perfectly as he did, I will never dispute any of these things. I know all good in my life is the grace of God. I am still learning and asking questions, your replies are helping me even though my questions may seem naive, I know in my soul I am nothing compared to him and will never argue it. Please forgive my ignorance if it offends. I do not mean to offend anyone.
  19. You can still be a Jew and receive the living Jesus Christ---your Messiah---into your life. I invite you to do just that, my friend!
    Cturtle and Softly say Amen and like this.
  20. You are coming over as Christian to me.
    autumn oddity and Softly say Amen and like this.

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