Was Jesus God In The New Testament And The Old Testament?

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Jacob sander, Mar 12, 2014.

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Jesus God in OT and NT?

  1. Yes

    13 vote(s)
    92.9%
  2. No

    1 vote(s)
    7.1%
  1. JACOB-- choose JESUS!! My friend, you don't want to be left behind! Give Him a chance to show you HIMSELF that He IS GOD,

    The proof is inside each believer and can only be known by a believer.

    I will be praying for your salvation.
     
    Silk likes this.

  2. Apostolic Oneness....................... ONE Creator that are 3

    There is only ONE GOD; the Creator of the heavens and theearth and of all mankind, manifested to mankind as FATHER (creator) SON, (savior), and HOLY GHOST (indwelling Spirit)

    Trinity designates ONE eternal God in unity, yet existing in THREE persons. The members of the Trinity are equal in nature, distinct in person, and subordinate in duties.

    Trinity does not make Jesus the Creator. You just posted the Oneness doctrine.

    Oneness Pentecostalism derives its distinctive name from its teaching on the Godhead, which is popularly referred to as the Oneness doctrine.[2] This doctrine states that there is one God, a singular divine person, who manifests himself in many different ways, including as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

    Trinity states there are 3 that are one, Not One that exist as 3.

    I would say you lean to being more a Modelist because Oneness does not use the term persons.



    Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

    I don't know what you are Major, I am like my Father, He made me like him and I am born of the same Word that Brought Jesus into this World.

    1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.



    I used it because i was quoting the Trinity Doctrine. Pay attention. It's made up of two different Greek Words neither Word translates Father, Son, Holy Spirit. I am scripture only.

    I don't need you to post what you think is Truth Major, I just quoted the Trinity Doctrine. Your not even Trinitarian.

    I don't call people names Major, I call out liars and deception. I call things as they are.

    You misquoted me many times, and I can go through and highlight all those in case you have selective memory. Not agreeing with Doctrine is one thing, but to claim I believe and say things I did not goes beyond the scope of not agreeing with doctrine. It's deception and false slander. Just like Gene did to me, and what Paul does to me.

    You ignore what I say, and make something else up. I don't do that to people Major, you do.
    Then you have the nerve to cry about it after I say something. Really?

    Here is one such Lie you told, I can post more if you can't remember:
    I never said I reject the Holy Spirit...... then you come in with........... Folks........ Like your smart or something but you just lied.
    I said, the True Trinity Doctrine never included the Holy Spirit. I posted it for you. The true Trinity Doctrine just mentioned the Father and Son.

    Read the Real and Original Trinity Doctrine and tell me where the Holy Spirit is mentioned............. that is all I stated.

    You tell the people I reject the Holy Spirit as a person. Not one time did I post that.

    So before you go crying about ......... Oh they might close the thread and bla, bla, bla............

    Stop lying, and things won't come to that.

    You can disagree on Doctrine, but don't lie on people and claim a bunch of stuff they never said. That is what Gene did to me, and Paul. I have never done that to any one of you. Not one time. I even ignore you attacking my denomination if you want to call it a denominations. Stop Misquoting me though, and lying. I will call those things out.






     
  3. MichaelH - I doubt you will listen to me but I am going to give it one more try. I have read your words against Gene, Brother Paul and now, on this thread, Major. It started when you insisted that Gene was misquoting you. I had to go back and read and reread posts because Gene's take was the same as mine. He may have paraphrased (some of your posts are almighty long) but he was disagreeing with what you were saying, respectfully, and called you on it. Major had to intervene to get you to stop attacking. You listened for once. You kept saying Paul was misquoting you - again after reading and rereading, he wasn't. He just ignored the slams that he was misquoting you and said what he had to say - again, respectfully. Now you say Major is misquoting you, and I don't have to go back and reread any more. I remember very well what you said/typed. When I first saw this, I thought maybe you really are being misunderstood- give him (you) the benefit of the doubt but that no longer plays. This is the first time I ever heard a christian call himself polytheistic in 61 yrs on this earth. I have never heard a christian say that the Holy Spirit is not God. But I don't get around these days as much as I used to. You keep quoting labels and misidentyfying doctrine and say you go by the scripture. Major gave you a page and 1/2 of scripture to support Father, Son and Holy Spirit. These are concepts taken right from untwisted scripture - not some council of trent. YOU ARE NOT made from the same Word as Christ. You cannot be just like Him. His was uncorrupted flesh. Yours and mine isn't. Remember that the next time someone claims they are the reincarnated Christ. Anybody who has read your post will say the same. Perhaps it is you that needs to read and reread your own posts.
     
  4. YOU and Gene disagreed.
    YOU and Brother Paul disagreed.
    You and Silk disagreed.

    I have not disagreed with Gene, or Paul or Silk. That seems to me to indicate that you are the problem and not everyone else.
     
  5. God is so powerful that anything emanating from God will be God. There's 3 manifestations of the same Being. God spoke. That Word became flesh and He is called God our Salvation. The Spirit, the Will of God is still the same God. We must use relationship words to be able to understand the relationship. God sent His Word. The Word became flesh. God's Name resided in the temple, so really that's 4 manifestations - The Quadrinity(?) The word of God speaks of the seven Spirits of God... so now we're up to Eleveninity. Why box God into labels? But all this is labeling is wrong. So all I gotta say is:

    Titus 3:9 (KJV)
    But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
     
  6. Your not going to address your lying problem? I posted what you falsely said about me. There are more once that one is cleared up.
     
  7. My dear friend. I posted YOUR EXACT WORDS and the number of the post they were made in just so that you would be able to grasp and understand yourself and what YOU said.

    I can understand why a minister would not want to discuss his inability with telling the truth so read #386 and we can move on and we will call your problems an inability to understand, shall we?

    This thread now, and for that matter a long time, has nothing to do with how it started and for one, I am sick of the rhetoric and the blustering. So I am departing it and you may have the last word.
     
  8. Sigh......... OK Major. I will just assume that you and I both misunderstand each other and that is just what happens. I love you, I am not mad at you. My exact words were describing the 325ad Trinity doctrine. Not what I believe, I was just trying to point out that through the years the whole Trinity Concept from the Original has been Convoluted. I press the reset button Brother.

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    Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

    Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    Was not trying to ignore you. You posted a Trinity and Modelist/oneness position though.

    You got the consistent interpretation of the word correct in saying if God speaks it happens as God Declared the Begotten son and by that Word spoken, Mary became pregnant with the Word and how Jesus was begotten by the spoken word into this World.

    However, 3 manifestations of the same being............. Is a Modelist Position. They also believe Jesus is some Word Part of some God machine, and the scripture is actually talking about Jesus being the Word, instead of something God spoke and came to pass as the scripture indicates and always indicated.

    Trinity is 3 persons (Not manifestations) of 1 God essence........ (Some substance that is called God, or some say Godhead)

    Oneness would be 1 that Is 3 persons, or manifestations of 3 beings.

    Titus 3:9 (KJV)
    But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

    Now if you want to ditch the doctrines of men and go with that scripture, that is fine also.

    be Blessed.
     
  9. Ok...

    1 John 5:7 (KJV)
    For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
     
  10. :cry: All these definitions and labels 'membership badges'.
    Amillenium, Premillenium, postmillenium Oneness, twosome threesome ......
    If Jesus walked into the 'proverbial' room, what would He be?






    He would be our saviour, our redeemer.

    Thank you Lord that you love me enough to die in my place and thank you Father that you guaranteed me a place at your table by raising Jesus from that death he died for me. And thank you comforter..........Holy Spirit, that you do comfort us and speak to us of the wondrous love of God toward us.

    Major, pass me the salt please. MichaelH pass me the butter please. Silk would you pass me one of those dinner rolls please......thanks.
     
  11. What would Jesus be? Not part of that twosome or theesome...........

    I am creeped out now Calvin. I will take another dinner roll though.

    :)
     
  12. Bless you for you always bring things into focus!
     
  13. All believers have that place at the table, but a believer can be disqualified from his or her place at the table and be left behind to be received later on. 1 Corinthians 9:24-27

    This is actually a work of iniquity for any believer to be doing; addressing the Holy Spirit in worship, fellowship, or prayer. This does not happen all the time, but wayward believers going around the only means God the Father has given us to come to Him by as all invitations points to the Son, when believers address the Holy Spirit, then seducing spirits have come with their signs & lying wonders.

    John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    Jesus really meant what He has said because in these "movements of the 'Spirit' " , they address the Holy Spirit in worship or in prayer and chaos & confusion comes. So why would God permit the devil to respond when addressing the Holy Spirit? Because going around the Son and broadening the way in coming to God the Father as if the Holy Spirit is another means for us to come to God by, is the work of iniquity from which many houses are falling and they do fall in these movements of the "Spirit" like the slain in the "Spirit" and holy laughter movement. See Matthew 7:13-27 & Luke 13:24-30

    Only the Son can answer prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

    John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

    When there is only one Mediator, then the Holy Spirit cannot serve as another One. The Son can do the job Himself while the Holy Spirit serves as our Comforter when we do not know what to pray for in that the Son that searches our hearts, knows the mind of the Spirit in giving our intercessions and the Spirit's to the Father which is in according to the will of God for the Son to be the only One doing this:

    Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

    That is how the Father knows before we ask anything in prayer so the necessity to use God's gift of tongues which is of other men's lips to speak unto the people to "also" serve as a prayer language is a lie. God's gift of tongues is not for God to be praying back to Himself through the Holy Spirit.

    Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

    I digress.

    Anyway, it is a work of iniquity to address the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit in you is leading you to honour the Son as the Bridegroom as being the only access to God the Father by. It is that seal of adoption by Whom we can call God Father, but that does not mean we can "talk" to the Holy Spirit at all because of other spirits in the world that God the Father would call sinners away from by coming to Him by the only way of the Son. And believers are to keep coming to the Son in relating to God the Father by to avoid those spirits of the antichrist that seek to seduce us away from the Son in the worship place to go chasing after them to receive them again & again for a sign which is the work of an adulterous generation.

    May God cause the increase and prune that away which is not of Him so we can bear more fruit as His disciples; the disciples of the Son in testifying of Him in seeking the glory of the Son & by Him, God the Father as well which is exactly what the Holy Spirit in us is leading us to do in keeping our eyes on the Son for the Bridegroom will be coming soon.

    Psalm 27:8When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, Lord, will I seek.
     
  14. What was this thread about? @Talk Jesus - I'm unsure but I think? I agree.
     
  15. I was replying to Calvin's post that I believed the Lord would have me share His corrections, and although late, it was deviating from the OP, but then again, the progress of the thread seems to have settled with different side topics emerging.

    But I am glad to see that you agree. If unsure, always take the matter before Jesus in prayer for confirmation in His words.
     
  16. No worries - I went back and read the first 5 pages. Well I was unsure of what your post was actually saying and I've reread it a few times now. Calvin was simply saying thanks to God for all that He has done and I join Calvin in that thanks. HS=God=Jesus so all can be addressed. I was agreeing with you that incorrect emphasis on HS over God and Jesus is wrong but maybe that isn't what you were saying?
     
  17. The Holy Spirit is God, but He is not the One to be addressing or to be praying to, because God the Father is reconciling the world to Himself through the Son.

    To clarify more: American Indians dance & chant for the "Great Spirit" to come and when it does, they experience what they had referred to when getting drunk with alcohol. God would call them away from that spirit to a personal relationship with Him through the Son and to keep them from bringing in their "Great Spirit" and relabling that Great Spirit as the "Holy Spirit", the job of the real indwelling Holy Spirit is to keep the believers' eyes on the Son in all things when coming to God the Father by.

    There are sinners out there in the world that seeks after spirits while some worship them as gods, and so God the Father is calling them away from that "focus" by the only way given for believers to relate to Him by: the Son of God. The reason Jesus is called the Bridegroom is because He is how we are married to God by, and thus we really are to live this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

    That is why in John 5:23, the only way to honour the Father is by honouring the Son which is exactly what the Holy Spirit is leading us to do as He will not speak of Himself ( John 16:13 ) but of the Son ( John 15:26 ) to glorify the Son ( John 16:14 ) as those led by the Spirit will be doing the same thing ( John 15:27 )

    The Holy Spirit is not leading believers to honour nor to glorify Himself in worship, but the Son, and by Him, God the Father.

    The Holy Spirit & scripture are pointing believers to keep going to the Son in coming to God the Father in all things so as to avoid the spirits of the antichrists.

    Proof that we are not to pray to the Holy Spirit is when in these apostate movements of the "Spirit" for signs & lying wonders, they are addressing the Holy Spirit in worship & prayer, and yet that is not the Holy Spirit answering, because that is not His place to be addressed in worship nor to answer prayers and thus not to be prayed to.

    So it is not okay to pray to or give thanks to the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit is not leading us to do that. There is only one way in coming to God the Father by to avoid the spirits of the antichrist, and that is by coming to the Son in all things.

    John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
     
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  18. Yes, so says the word.
    John 1:1
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    John 1:14
    And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

     
  19. The one and only God, who called Himself YHVH, became flesh and dwelt among us...just as He promised He would in many places in the Old Testament. "Jesus" did not exist before the incarnation...but the Word/Son is the creator along with the Father and the Spirit (Elohim)...the Son is greater than all the angels and the angels worship Him, but of Jesus it is written that He was made a little lower than the angels...So the question is flawed, it is not that Jesus was the God of the Old Testament, but that the God of the Old Testament became incarnate, and the same one and only God said to Joseph you shall call His name "Jesus".
     

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