Was Eden A Real Place?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Tainted Scrolls, Aug 5, 2013.

  1. This was a conversation that branched off from the video I posted about Gen. 1 and I wanted to discuss that subject a little more in detail. I am going to change up my videos with a new approach after this week, but I like to record them because it gives me a chance to just kinda open my mind and get all my questions out.

    Thank you guys for your time
  2. Your 1st question was..........."Is the serpant Satan"?

    The serpant was a creature that copuld be used by Satan. and that is exactly what Satan did.
    The serpant is not the slithering creature we think of today. He was differant in hte beginning and actually walked upright instead of crawling on the ground.

    Genesis 3:14...............
    "And the Lord God said unto the "SERPANT", becaue thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field, UPON THEY BELLY SHALT THOW GO AND DUST SHALT THOU EAT ALL THE DAYS OF THY LIFE".

    2 Corth. 11:14 says........
    "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light,

    Rev. 12:9,=....................
    "And the great dragon was cast out, THAT OLD SERPANT, called the devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world, he was cast out into the earth and his angels with him".

    There is no record in Genesis of his origin at all. To grasp his beginnings you need to read Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 which give us the beginnings of this creature.

    Your 2nd question was.........."Could we communicate with animals back in the garden of Eden"?

    Probably not since there is no record of that being able to be done. God brought all the animals to Adam and Adam named them as found in Gen. 2:19 but there is not a record of 2 way communication.

    Your 3rd question was............"Was Eden on the earth, literally".

    Yes it was.

    I do not mean to be mean hear, but have you really read the Genesis account?
    There is NO hint that The Garden of Eden is anywhere except on the eart my dear friend.

    Genesis 2:8
    "And the Lord planted a garden eastward in Eden and there he put the man whom He had formed".

    Gen. 2:10............
    "And a river went out from Eden to water the garden and from thence it was parted and became into foue heads.
    The name of the first is Pison, that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah where there is gold.
    And the name of the second river is Gihon the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia and the name of the third river is Hiddekel that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria and the fourth is the river Euphrates.

    The river in Ethopis is the Nile and the Hiddekel is the Tigres. Point being that they are all known earthly places.

    Genesis 2:15
    "And the Lord God took the man and put him into the Garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it".

    Seems to me that explains it and answers your questions.
  3. I think this is a good and legitimate question regarding the serpent. One thing we know for sure is that evil temptations come from Satan.

    St. Augustine of Hippo stated; “This serpent, however, could be called the wisest of all the beasts not by reason of its irrational soul but rather because of another spirit – that of the Devil – dwelling in it.” Thus, St. Augustine proposes that the snake was made to speak through the possession of Satan, who used the snake as an instrument through which he spoke.

  4. I have a hard time believing the Bible is this cut and dry. If you are taking the rivers theroy at face value then how do you explain the Angel standing with a flaming sword outside the gate of Eden? Which was stated in Chapter 3 verse 24. If this was 100% true to the point of Eden being an earthly realm, we would be able to see the angel to this day protecting the garden.

    Also there was a great flood that happend after this creation which would have surely destoryed any form of geography that we would understand before that flood. There is no way that rivers would have returned to where they were or that Noah would have landed in the same place after floating for that long.
  5. YES........I take the rivers listed in the Genesis as actual rivers that existed then and some are still here today. I believe that because quite frankly, I am not smart enough to clime any better explination of the Genesis account.

    I am first, a "literalist". In other words, what God said is what God meant to say, NOT what I fail to understand.

    Now, how do I explain the angel standing with a flaming sword outside of Eden?

    Well, the truth is that I do not need to explain it, I only need to believe it my brother.

    American Standard Version
    So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden the Cherubim, and the flame of a sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    And he cast out Adam; and placed before the paradise of pleasure Cherubims, and a flaming sword, turning every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

    Darby Bible Translation
    And he drove out Man; and he set the Cherubim, and the flame of the flashing sword, toward the east of the garden of Eden, to guard the way to the tree of life.

    Those comparisons immediately tell us that the verse is well translated just as it stands.

    The point is, in a way of explination that you asked for, is that according to verse #7, Adam and Eve were now like God in that they knew good and evil. Their eyes had been opened to the light of their own sinfulness. They knew good but were unable to do it, they knew evil but were unable to resist it. That my friend is what the Calvinist's would call TOTAL DEPRAVITY.

    Now, as for the flood.......I am not sure what your question is as I do not find one in your comment.

    Your comment was.............
    "There is no way that rivers would have returned to where they were or that Noah would have landed in the same place after floating for that long".

    Well, of course that is not true now is it. Science itself proves that water always finds the course of least resistance.
    Once the waters receded, then the natural flow of water in all rivers would return because it was God who blocked those rivers in the 1st place...(Gen. 8:2)

    Now the Scriptures do not say that the Ark returned to where the same place where is began to float.

    YES. The receding waters would very definitely change the geography of the earth. What is the point????
  6. @ Tainted Scrolls: How big is your God?

    What I mean is this: My God-can do anything, and all things are possible through Him. I don't dare say I know or understand all there is about God.But I believe the Bible- I have faith. I believe there is enough historical and archaeological evidence to substantiate that everything from Exodus to Jude is real. Why would I not believe Genesis and Revelation? These are the 'bookends' if you will defining our current human existence here on this earth.

    Have FAITH....

    If the Bible says there is an angel with a flaming sword-I am good with that....My God is capable...
  7. #7 aha, Aug 9, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2013
    Reading the post simply seems to me just not a literalist.

    There are those considered as Church Fathers considered the story of the Garden of Eden as using "symbolic language"

    It always captured the story: the essence of man’s need for salvation.

    Although I prefer to read it as a literalist, why: it is closer to first-hand information : )
  8. I simply don't understand what the motivation might be for attempts to explain away the Genesis account.
  9. Neither do I my brother, neither do I.
    farouk likes this.
  10. For over 50 years I have believed in God

    It has taken a lifetime to be able to understand enough to know that I am worthless and can do nothing to make the Word of God better.

    I can contribute nothing to help my spiritual wellness, the Holy takes care of that.

    The one thing I can do is to believe what God has given me, 1st of all His Word, written for us as to communicate with Him.

    We haven’t thought of all the questions but He has already answered them before we ask.

    What we don’t understand we hold in our minds and our hearts.

    I am 60 and the Word of God refreshes me more every day

    The answers will come in time; sometimes a long time

    Believe when I say, all the wealth in the world cannot give us the peace and tranquility that comes from a loving God.

    And the assurance of an eternal life with Him in Heaven.

    So don’t worry about the detail my friend, it will come to you.
    farouk likes this.
  11. Rob G: The Word gets more sure and precious as the years go by, right?

    Major likes this.
  12. Good stuff Rob. I have you beat in the age thing my brother.
  13. The way home via the Word is sure. Blessings.
  14. The common theme I seem to be getting is "I understand the bible to say a certain thing, why question it?"

    That is a horrible way to live life in my opinion. I am constantly reading, studying, pondering and praying. It makes me stronger in my faith.

    The English Bible is written in a language that does not translate well from the original text. The bible is written BY man preached BY man. To put my faith in that message is to put my faith in MAN, not to put my faith in God.

    I refuse to say "I know exactly what this scripture means" and then refuse EVERYBODY'S view on the situation.

    My goal is not to CHANGE the scripture as you have stated, my goal is to understand the scripture. If other thoughts and views come up that you might not agree with, please state your belief but honestly it seems as if some people have taken a real condescending approach towards me, when all I try to do is read and become stronger in my walk.
  15. My suggestion would be to use the KJV and cross reference with Strong's numbers in the original text. I think you will find many will argue that the Bible-though penned my man's hand was inspired by God's Spirit which is why there was much debate about certain books being canonized and others being left out or discarded all together. There are many more writings than the 66 in the Bible.

    In my opinion, your search for the truth is a noble one, and you have many valid questions. There is a process God outlines in the Bible to get to know Him better: Worship, pray, fast when necessary, read the Bible, meditate on the Word, fellowship with Bible believing Christians, seek good counsel and repeat. This is all in preparation in doing what God has called us to do: serve our fellow man by sharing the Gospel and being a witness for God. Missing any one of these elements can hinder spiritual growth-especially if we are living backsliding- rebellious/ disobedient lives.

    Now I am not accusing-so please don't take it that way-purely speaking in generality.

    When reading the Bible: I always recommend a Christian read and absorb the Gospels before moving on anywhere else. Then read though the epistles followed by OT History. Saving prophetic books after the foundation of Christ is well laid.

    Sometimes in our zeal, we choke on the 'meat' of the Bible when what we NEED is the 'milk' as babes. By no means are many of the things in Genesis 'milk'.

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