How do you know that to be true? Who told you that? The news media? How do you know you can trust them? How do you know they are not lying to you? We can't be sure what is really happening over there because we are not there. Israel could be lying to us. The U.S. government could be lying to us. The media could be lying to us. Hamas could be supported and funded by Israel or by the U.S. and all of this could be a ruse to get us to believe that Israel is being persecuted when, in fact, they may be the aggressors, and they may be over there killing innocents and even killing Christians for their faith in Christ. We don't know either way for a fact because we are not there. The scriptures warn us against putting our trust in humans. They warn of us a time of great deception when even the elect will be deceived, if that were possible. So, be careful that you don't believe everything you hear or read in the news. It may all be a lie. Put your hope and trust in Jesus Christ. Love and support those you know and you know what they are doing. Make sure you are not standing with the wicked. Pray, pray, pray for discernment and ask the Lord Jesus to open your eyes to the truth. Many are being deceived. Ask the Lord to show you his truth. And support him and his work, and just be careful that you are not supporting what is evil, although you may do so naively. Love you all. Care about you all.
Very Concerned
- Thread starter SueJLove
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How do you know that to be true? Who told you that? The news media? How do you know you can trust them? How do you know they are not lying to you? We can't be sure what is really happening over there because we are not there. Israel could be lying to us. The U.S. government could be lying to us. The media could be lying to us. Hamas could be supported and funded by Israel or by the U.S. and all of this could be a ruse to get us to believe that Israel is being persecuted when, in fact, they may be the aggressors, and they may be over there killing innocents and even killing Christians for their faith in Christ. We don't know either way for a fact because we are not there. The scriptures warn us against putting our trust in humans. They warn of us a time of great deception when even the elect will be deceived, if that were possible. So, be careful that you don't believe everything you hear or read in the news. It may all be a lie. Put your hope and trust in Jesus Christ. Love and support those you know and you know what they are doing. Make sure you are not standing with the wicked. Pray, pray, pray for discernment and ask the Lord Jesus to open your eyes to the truth. Many are being deceived. Ask the Lord to show you his truth. And support him and his work, and just be careful that you are not supporting what is evil, although you may do so naively. Love you all. Care about you all.
The biblical Israel is supposed to be from Egypt to the Euphrates.
Is the modern Israel that? No it is not.
Have they followed the Commands of Messiah? No they have not.
Do they have right to a gift from God when they do not obey him? No they do not.
Is prophecy fulfilled? No it has not.
From Genesis to Matthew it is clear that the Israel we see today, is NOT the Israel that is spoken of in The Bible.
Secular Israel has no RIGHT to the land.
This is madness Sue. All you need to know is that Jesus was born a Jew in Israel. Jews returned to Israel per prophecy. Also don't forget the 70 weeks to reconcile. Daniel 9:24: Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
The Holy City is now the church. Physical Jerusalem is of Hagar, the slave woman. God made that clear!
Modern Israel has no right as they are NOT Israel that is defined in scripture.
The borders are wrong.
The people refuse to accept the New Order that supersedes the Order of Levi.
What new order? And who is the Israel defined in scripture? I'm just trying to understand.
I am assuming the new order is the New Covenant. As far as who Israel is now as defined in scripture, see the scriptures in the OP and they will help you to understand. The true church of Jesus Christ, his Body, the saints of God, the heavenly Jerusalem - we are Israel. The scriptures in the OP will give you the details.
Israel Today
July 13, 2014
~ Romans 9:6b-8 says: "For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, ‘It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.’ In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring." ~
We, the church, the Body of Christ, are the children of promise now (See Gal. 4).
The physical nation of Israel today is not to be confused with the nation of Israel of old. The nation of Israel of old was God’s holy people, set apart for God and for his service, although they certainly did not always live like holy people. Still, they belonged to God. He created them for his purposes. From them would come Jesus Christ, their Savior, into the world to save sinners, yet they, as a nation, rejected their promised Messiah, the seed of Abraham, and they had him crucified on a cross to die as though he was a common criminal, although he had done no wrong. So they, as a people, were cut off from the vine due to unbelief (See Romans 11). They can be grafted back in through belief, though. As well, many Jews have believed in Jesus Christ as their Messiah, Savior and Lord. Amen!
Jesus Christ, through his death and resurrection, made believing Jews and Gentiles one in Christ. He destroyed the barrier between the two groups.
~ Eph. 2:14-18 says: “His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility... For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.” ~
So, you see, God only has one chosen people now, and they are the true church, the Body of Christ, whether Jew or Gentile by physical birth. Yet, we are no longer divided Jew and Gentile, but we are divided Christian and non-Christian; saved and unsaved (See Gal. 3:26-29).
“For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise. These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother…
“Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise. At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. IT IS THE SAME NOW. But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.” ~ Gal. 4:22-31
“Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise. At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. IT IS THE SAME NOW. But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.” ~ Gal. 4:22-31
It is critical that we get this in order for us to truly comprehend what is going on in the world and in the Middle East today! The physical nation of Israel today is not of God! They are not God’s chosen people, in other words. It is of Satan! Those who do not believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior of their lives do not worship the God of Abraham. They are antichrist! They are not the children of promise. Only those who believe in Jesus Christ are the children of promise and heirs of God. The physical nation of Israel today is no different from any other nation created of men. They are of Hagar, so they are no different from the Arab nations. We need to get this. They are the “Gentiles” now! And, they are opposed to God and to his Son Jesus Christ, just like they were at the time they killed the Son of God, which means they are also opposed to the gospel of salvation and to those who hold to the testimony of Jesus Christ. So, why do so many Christians support them?
~ Matt. 12:30 says: "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.” ~
~ 1 Jn. 2:22: "Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son." ~
I don't think they care. Jews are not the chosen race? Jesus did not come from the Jews? Jews are not in Israel?...
But they do, King. They've already been here and answered several times.I don't think they care. Jews are not the chosen race? Jesus did not come from the Jews? Jews are not in Israel?...
Thank you, sis for taking time to explain. I don't agree with you. I still think modern Israel is God's holy nation. They aren't really opposed to God, as God of Abraham is our God too. They do need to accept Jesus as their messiah though.
I don't think they are gentiles at all.
Oh ok. I guess the next step is to ask the Jews in Israel to double-check their family trees / do dna tests?
I guess the two prophets who are coming in the tribulation are going to have a hard time finding them if they not in the land of and according to prophecy ....where they supposed to be building a temple
.Isaiah 11:11-12 11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. 12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
You said..........
"The deed on the secular Israel is revoked.
The Palestinians have as much right to the land as any other. God even says that the land is to be shared."
I have asked you 3 times and now 4 to please post the Bible verses that validate your comment. As I said to you.....
YOU own it, now prove it.
What are you waiting for?????
Then what do you do with Romans 11:1......
" I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin."
If Israel has been condemned by God, and there is no future for the Jewish nation, how do we explain the supernatural survival of the Jewish people over the past 2000 years despite the many attempts to destroy them? How do we explain why and how Israel reappeared as a nation in the 20th century after not existing for 1900 years?
The view that Israel and the church are different is clearly taught in the New Testament. Biblically speaking, the church is completely different and distinct from Israel, and the two are never to be confused or used interchangeably. We are taught from Scripture that the church is an entirely new creation that came into being on the day of Pentecost and will continue until it is taken to heaven at the rapture (Ephesians 1:9-11; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17). The church has no relationship to the curses and blessings for Israel. The covenants, promises, and warnings are valid only for Israel. Israel has been temporarily set aside in God's program during these past 2000 years of dispersion.
Replacement theology is simply wrong!
WRONG!
To me, it is clear in the Scriptures that after the rapture, God will restore Israel as the primary focus of His plan. The first event at this time is the tribulation (Revelation chapters 6-19). The world will be judged for rejecting Christ, while Israel is prepared through the trials of the great tribulation for the second coming of the Messiah.
Then, when Christ does return to the earth, at the end of the tribulation, Israel will be ready to receive Him. The remnant of Israel which survives the tribulation will be saved, and the Lord will establish His kingdom on this earth with Jerusalem as its capital. With Christ reigning as King, Israel will be the leading nation, and representatives from all nations will come to Jerusalem to honor and worship the King—Jesus Christ. The church will return with Christ and will reign with Him for a literal thousand years according to Rev. 20:1-5.
Both the Old Testament and the New Testament support a premillennial/dispensational understanding of God's plan for Israel. Even so, the strongest support for premillennialism is found in the clear teaching of Rev. 20:1-7, where it says six times that Christ's kingdom will last 1000 years. After the tribulation the Lord will return and establish His kingdom with the nation of Israel, Christ will reign over the whole earth, and Israel will be the leader of the nations.
The church will reign with Him for a literal thousand years. The church has not replaced Israel in God's plan. While God may be focusing His attention primarily on the church in this dispensation of grace, God has not forgotten Israel and will one day restore Israel to His intended role as the nation He has chosen which Paul explains in Rom. 11.
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/replacement-theology.html#ixzz38nJ0Pin5
Sorry, I thought you were quoting Paul to try to prove that one's ancestry made someone an Israelite. In which case, your quote from Paul either proves that only Benjaminites are Israel else Arabs are Israel.
Wasn't it Judah which seceded from Israel, with the Benjaminites tagging along? It's the party that secedes which has to come up with a new name, and Israel was already taken. Either way, Judah was also a whore, given her walking papers, after she killed Jesus.
Paul is establishing that he is genealogically an Israelite, to establish his credentials with jewish bigots, those who think a true Jew is one with a genealogy to Abraham through Jacob. Then Paul goes on to explain that without faith, you're not counted as a child of Abraham (and, that anyone with faith is a child of Abraham).
Pat, God clearly says the Jews will be my people after the nation is re-established.
In the Vision of the Valley of Dry Bones in Ezek. 37:11-14, which is widely recognized as a prophecy about the restoration of Israel at the end-of-the-age, God said, “Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD”.
God clearly says the Jews will be my people in the latter days and latter years.
What is disturbing to me with "replacement theology" is how blatant the rejection is of clear Bible verses which declare Israel to be God's people. The only way the replacement theology works is the rejection of those verse altogether and if that can be done then why not just say anything we want to say?????
No problem, just glad we are clear.
No!
Really was no need to explain the passage, I got it.
Dadgumm! Not so again. It was the Promised Land that was God gave to Israel that went from the Med. Sea to the Euphrates river, not Israel.
Israel as a nation never took more than 10% of the Promised Land given to them.
They do. Believe me, they do!Oh ok. I guess the next step is to ask the Jews in Israel to double-check their family trees / do dna tests?
I guess the two prophets who are coming in the tribulation are going to have a hard time finding them if they not in the land of and according to prophecy ....where they supposed to be building a temple
Isaiah 11:11-12 11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. 12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
Christ said at the cross, "Forgive them, Father, they know not what they do." Both Romans and Jewish leaders are responsible for that crucifixtion - Jews and Gentiles. Jesus comes from the seed of Issac - NOT Ishmael. It is this seed not Hagar's. Ishmael's descendants went on to reject God and worship false Gods. I don't know why you don't see this in scripture clearly. When you graft something on to another - got news for you - if that root dies - so does the graft. You have to misunderstand or throw out the book of Revelation. We, as Christians, share with the Jews, the position of God's people...the chosen.
Thomas Ice said a few days ago, there are 15-20,000 converted to Christ, Jews, right now in Israel. No Jews are killing them there but Muslims, who claim descent from Ishmael, are killing Christians daily in every Muslim country. Google it. Satan hates the Jews first and foremost - but Christians are next on the list. I don't care why you might side with the Jews, secular justice or religious understanding. I pray daily that my eyes and ears are open and I pray for yours as well. We are at end times, folks and God's plan includes saved Jews. We cannot stop what is prophesized, but for crying out loud, we don't have to add to Satan's delight in eliminating Jews.
Thomas Ice said a few days ago, there are 15-20,000 converted to Christ, Jews, right now in Israel. No Jews are killing them there but Muslims, who claim descent from Ishmael, are killing Christians daily in every Muslim country. Google it. Satan hates the Jews first and foremost - but Christians are next on the list. I don't care why you might side with the Jews, secular justice or religious understanding. I pray daily that my eyes and ears are open and I pray for yours as well. We are at end times, folks and God's plan includes saved Jews. We cannot stop what is prophesized, but for crying out loud, we don't have to add to Satan's delight in eliminating Jews.
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