Very Concerned

Status
Not open for further replies.
As others highlighted here, I do not believe Church has "replaced" Israel.. Gentiles have been grafted into the branch along with Israel.. This does not mean the below,

Israel has an alternate way to be saved. It is only through faith in Jesus Christ. That does not change.
everyone in Israel is not saved. Only those who accept Christ will be saved.
We support Israel blindly irrespective of what is correct. We are supporting Israel only for a just reason
 
Interesting topic. In my humble opinion it seems like there is a lot of prophecies being fulfilled that support Israel. Even the whole world is starting to have hatred for Israel. I always wondered why would all of the earth want to gather against Israel. It is now becoming more clear.

"On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves."
 
SueJLove said:
I am very concerned over the vast number of Christians who are strongly standing with the physical nation of Israel and believe that in doing so they are standing with God. I DO NOT STAND with nor do I SUPPORT the physical nation of Israel. The reason why is:

· They are not true Israel – Ro 9:6b-8

· They are not Abraham’s children (offspring) – Ro 9:6b-8

· They are not the children of promise – Ro 9:6b-8

· They are not God’s children – Ro 9:6b-8

· We, the true church, are all the above – Ro 9:6b-8

· They were broken off from God’s vine due to unbelief – Ro 11

· They are enemies of the gospel of Jesus Christ – Ro 11

· Although a remnant will be saved, they are still enemies of the gospel – Ro 11

· Jesus Christ made believing Jews and Gentiles one in Christ – Eph 2:14-18

· In Christ, there is neither Jew or Gentile – all one in Christ – Gal 3:28

· In Christ Jesus we are all children of God through faith – Gal 3:26

· If we belong to Christ, we are Abraham’s seed – Gal 3:29

· If we belong to Christ, we are heirs according to the promise – Gal 3:29

· Those who do not belong to Christ are none of the above (3) – Gal 3:26-29

· Physical Jerusalem is of Hagar, the slave woman – Gal 4:22-31

· Physical Jerusalem is in slavery with her children – Gal 4:22-31

· Physical Israel is a son born according to the flesh – Gal 4:22-31

· Physical Israel is a persecutor of Christ and his offspring – Gal 4:22-31

· Believers in Jesus Christ are of the Jerusalem that is above – Gal 4:22-31

· Believers in Jesus Christ are the children of promise – Gal 4:22-31

· Believers in Jesus Christ are the children of the free woman – Gal 4:22-31

· Physical Israel is against the God of Abraham – Matt 12:30

· Physical Israel does not worship the God of Abraham – Jn 8:19

· Physical Israel does not belong to God but to Satan – Jn 8:42-47

So, if I were to stand with the physical nation of Israel I would be supporting a people group who does not believe in the God of Abraham, does not worship him, are not the children of promise, are not the children of God, are enemies of the gospel of Jesus Christ, are persecutors of Christ Jesus and his offspring, are of Satan, and they do the work of the devil. These are not my words. This is what scripture teaches. If you are standing with this godless nation, and you are supporting them, scripture would thus indicate that you are supporting godless people who oppose the gospel of Christ, who are enemies of the cross, who persecute and perhaps even put to death believers in Christ, and who are of Satan. Physical Israel is antichrist. They could be The Antichrist, so you could be supporting the antichrist in the murdering of Christians, who are the true descendants of Abraham. Please think about this. Please pray about this. Would God be pleased with you giving your support to the enemy of Christ, and of his gospel and his people? We who are believers in Christ are the ones Christians are to support and stand with, not in sin, but in the faith.
Click to expand...

You have fallen into the clssic error of believing that the Church has replaced Israel. That is called..."Replacement Theology".

I am moved by the Holy Spirit to tell you that you are very much wrong! Not only is your theis wrong, you are ignoring the clear Word of God.

Romans 11:1......
"I say the, hath God cast away his people? GOD FORBID!!! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham of the tribe of Benjamin".

Paul is talking about ISRAEL!!!!

Verse 2........
"God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the Scriptue saith of Elias? How he mateth intercession to God against Israel saying, Lord they have killed thy prophets and digged down thine alters, and I am left alone, and they seek my life...........BUT, what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal".

Elijah was completely unaware that God had been working in the hearts of seven thousand men. Then consider that it would follow that if there were seven thousand men, there would also probably be seven thousand women who di not worship idols.

That was a REMNANT in the northern kingdom in the day of Ahab and Jezebel. God always had a REMNANT in Israel That remnant today is made up of those Jews who have come to Christ my sister! That is why Paul would say later that "All of Israel is not Israel".

God is not finished with Israel and the church has not replace Israel. WHY and how do we know that?? The Bible tells us that!

Romans 11:11
"I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? GOD FORBID! But rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy".

Has God cast away His people" NO!.........why?

Verse 1 says Rejection is only partial. Their fall allowed God to open the door of salvation to Gentiles.

KEY to understanding this is in Romans 11:23.........
"And they also if they abide not still in unbelief shall be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in AGAIN".

Since God accepted Gentiles who had no merit, then surely God can restore Israel who just as the Gentiles have no merit either!!!!!

AGAIN is the key word. The Old Test. confirms that Israel is going to return to God in Jeremiah 23:3-8.............
"3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase. 4 And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the Lord. 5 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness.7 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; 8 But, The Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.
Now lets put a Biblical bow on this !!!

Romans 11:26-27
"26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."
 
Barnabas said:
Sue's post clearly shows that God's promise is not with the physical nation of Israel. So, your argument that God does not renege on his promises is invalid.
Click to expand...

You just said........"So, your argument that God does not renege on his promises is invalid"

Do you realize that You are saying that God is a liar???? Am I reading this wrong or am I have a stroke or something here?????

Have we totally decided to ignore the Word of God?

Romans 11:26-27........
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

No, not every single Israelite will be saved anymore than every Floridian will be saved. It is the NATION that Paul is referring to and in every single age only a remnant is saved.

Isaiah 59:20.......
"And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob. saith the Lord".

The message to the individual is that they have to "turn from sin" and to the Lord. There was and will be a remnant that has and will turn to God. All of THEM that do that will be saved!!!! Paul then is speaking of the saved remnant as the nation of Israel and folks, that means God is not finished with Israel and the church can not replace what God is still working on!!!
 
Major said:
"I say the, hath God cast away his people? GOD FORBID!!! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham of the tribe of Benjamin".
Click to expand...

So, God's people are Benjaminites, which excludes the vast majority of Israel? Or God's people are the seed of Abraham, which includes Arabs? You need to check your logic.

The chapter you quote couldn't be clearer that those who are descendants of Abraham (including Arabs) who do not have faith in God (i.e. Jesus) are cut off! Not God's people! You also need to be reminded that Judaism is a religion, a false religion, not the foundation to establish that someone is a descendant of Abraham. Check your logic.

God's people were the remnant which remained faithful to God.

Since God accepted Gentiles who had no merit, then surely God can restore Israel who just as the Gentiles have no merit either!!!!!
Click to expand...

The church is the restored Israel.
 
The gift of Grace is for everyone.

Even Israel.

I do see it as a secular nation and as such it receives as much blessing and curse as any other secular nation.

But it is no more removed from God's love than any other nation.
 
Steve Amato said:
Consider Israel's situation. It is the only nation on earth who has a deed given to them by God for the property on which they reside. The Palestinians are essentially squatters on their property. It's like you have a house and then you family moves away and when they return they find a family of squatters in their house.

None of you have a right to the property you own as much as the Jews do of the land of Israel. So what if you came home from vacation and found a bunch of squatters living in your home. What would you do?

Now, rather than throw them out, Israel tries to accommodate the squatters. But then squatters attempt to murder this Jewish family. But rather than throw them out, the Jews build a wall in the house to divide the house between the two. But the squatters decide to dig under the wall and shoot missles over the wall to kill the Jews. Meanwhile the neighbors applaud the squatters. They themselves refuse to take in the squatters simply because they want them to kill the Jews.

That's the way I see the situation. I sympathize with the Jews, not because of a religious allegiance, but as a matter of justice in light of the injustice they suffer. Does the Christian community care much about justice?

Pr 28:5 Evil men do not understand justice, but those who seek the LORD understand it fully.
Click to expand...

The deed on the secular Israel is revoked.

The Palestinians have as much right to the land as any other. God even says that the land is to be shared.
 
Barnabas said:
So, God's people are Benjaminites, which excludes the vast majority of Israel? Or God's people are the seed of Abraham, which includes Arabs? You need to check your logic.

The chapter you quote couldn't be clearer that those who are descendants of Abraham (including Arabs) who do not have faith in God (i.e. Jesus) are cut off! Not God's people! You also need to be reminded that Judaism is a religion, a false religion, not the foundation to establish that someone is a descendant of Abraham. Check your logic.

God's people were the remnant which remained faithful to God.



The church is the restored Israel.
Click to expand...

Lordy, Lordy. I did not say that God's people were Benjamities!!! Please stop putting words into my mouth so as to make you look good and me stupid.

Paul said in Romans 11:1, which I quoted for you...........
"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God Forbid! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham of the tribe of Benjamine."

Paul was being very specific! He is saying that he was from one of the two tribes that never seceded from the nation and that he was 100% Israelite.

Anf from that YOU got ..........."So, God's people are Benjaminites, which excludes the vast majority of Israel? Or God's people are the seed of Abraham, which includes Arabs? You need to check your logic."

It is not about LOGIC but about the written Word of God which you do not seem to know.

Your arrogance is very troubling and I can promise you my friend I do not need to be reminded, but it is clear that YOU need to do the homework so as to be able to grasp what is right in front of you.

The church can not and does not replace Israel!!!

YOU are wrong and replacement theology is heresy! Replacement theology takes the role belonging to Jesus and assigns it to a political nation whose population generally has nothing to do with Him. The New Testament is especially clear in showing that it’s through salvation in Jesus that the nations are blessed.
 
Dave Lucas said:
The deed on the secular Israel is revoked.

The Palestinians have as much right to the land as any other. God even says that the land is to be shared.
Click to expand...

WRONG_ WRONG_ WRONG!!!!!

OK. You own that comment. Now post the Bible verses that confirm that the Deed to the Promised Land is revoked from Israel!

Ezek. 11:14-18.......
Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying, "Son of man, your brothers, your relatives, your fellow exiles, and the whole house of Israel, all of them, are those to whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem have said, 'Go far from the Lord; this land has been given us as a possession.' Therefore say, 'Thus says the Lord God, though I had removed them far away among the nations, and though I had scattered them among the countries, yet I was a sanctuary for them a little while in the countries where they had gone.'" Therefore say, "Thus says the Lord God, 'I shall gather you from the peoples and assemble you out of the countries among which you have been scattered, and I shall give you the land of Israel. When they come there, they will remove all its detestable things and all its abominations from it.'"
 
Steve Amato said:
Consider Israel's situation. It is the only nation on earth who has a deed given to them by God for the property on which they reside. The Palestinians are essentially squatters on their property. It's like you have a house and then you family moves away and when they return they find a family of squatters in their house.

None of you have a right to the property you own as much as the Jews do of the land of Israel. So what if you came home from vacation and found a bunch of squatters living in your home. What would you do?

Now, rather than throw them out, Israel tries to accommodate the squatters. But then squatters attempt to murder this Jewish family. But rather than throw them out, the Jews build a wall in the house to divide the house between the two. But the squatters decide to dig under the wall and shoot missles over the wall to kill the Jews. Meanwhile the neighbors applaud the squatters. They themselves refuse to take in the squatters simply because they want them to kill the Jews.

That's the way I see the situation. I sympathize with the Jews, not because of a religious allegiance, but as a matter of justice in light of the injustice they suffer. Does the Christian community care much about justice?

Pr 28:5 Evil men do not understand justice, but those who seek the LORD understand it fully.
Click to expand...
And I agree totally with you!
 
Dave Lucas said:
The gift of Grace is for everyone.

Even Israel.

I do see it as a secular nation and as such it receives as much blessing and curse as any other secular nation.

But it is no more removed from God's love than any other nation.
Click to expand...

Salvation today is the same for Jew and Gentile. Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ places the individuale into the family of God and that is without question.

But to ignore on purpose the Bible's teaching on the nation of Israel and her role in prophesy is just ignorance.

Now I am asking you again to valide your comment in #31. You made it, you own now prove it Biblically instead of your opinion!

The Land of Canaan, renamed Israel by the Lord, was given by God to Abraham and his descendants as an everlasting possession.

In Genesis 12:7a, we read: ........
"The Lord appeared to Abram and said, 'To your descendants I will give this land.'"
In Genesis 13:15..............
"He repeated His promise when He said, "for all the land which you see, I will give it to you and to your descendants forever."

He said the same thing in Genesis 15:18......
"To your descendants I have given this land."

Do we tear these verse out of the Scriptures and throw them away????
 
Last edited:
Dave Lucas said:
The deed on the secular Israel is revoked.

The Palestinians have as much right to the land as any other. God even says that the land is to be shared.
Click to expand...

3rd request Dave. Validate your comment in #31 with Biblical prood!!! YOU own the comment and now you have to prove it my brother!!!
 
Steve Amato said:
Consider Israel's situation. It is the only nation on earth who has a deed given to them by God for the property on which they reside. The Palestinians are essentially squatters on their property. It's like you have a house and then you family moves away and when they return they find a family of squatters in their house.

None of you have a right to the property you own as much as the Jews do of the land of Israel. So what if you came home from vacation and found a bunch of squatters living in your home. What would you do?

Now, rather than throw them out, Israel tries to accommodate the squatters. But then squatters attempt to murder this Jewish family. But rather than throw them out, the Jews build a wall in the house to divide the house between the two. But the squatters decide to dig under the wall and shoot missles over the wall to kill the Jews. Meanwhile the neighbors applaud the squatters. They themselves refuse to take in the squatters simply because they want them to kill the Jews.

That's the way I see the situation. I sympathize with the Jews, not because of a religious allegiance, but as a matter of justice in light of the injustice they suffer. Does the Christian community care much about justice?

Pr 28:5 Evil men do not understand justice, but those who seek the LORD understand it fully.
Click to expand...

I does!
 
Nanon said:
This topic is popping up a lot these days... watched a video this morning
that also makes similar conclusions, Sue.
Click to expand...

I thank you for sharing this video. Sadly so, I have no way of verifying much of what he has said so far, and I am only about half way through listening and viewing. I believe he seems to have a solid foundation in the word of God, and his quotation at the beginning I believe was very significant, but so far so much of what he is saying is hearsay. He talked with Jewish leaders and he says what they said, but I would have to do a bunch of research to see whether or not he is telling the truth. He seems to have his heart in the right place, as far as I can tell. I just can't verify his stories at this point. I have passed this along to a friend who has done extensive studying on the teachings of the Jewish faith as it is today, so I am hoping he can offer me some insight. Thank you for sharing this. I do believe he has hit on some valid points.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top