Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by ABabeInChrist, Oct 7, 2014.

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  1. This still does not answer my question. God is head of Christ and the Son is only the Son of God. I'm sorry but as a Trinitarian a proper answer to my question can't be answered because the Trinity does not make sense through Scriputure.
  2. I don't mean this rudely, but just because one doesn't understand what is given through Scripture doesn't leave every account null.

    I will grant you that explaining the trinity is more complex, but it isn't impossible. But that said, what is the logical argument for Unitarianism? Even Unitarianism doesn't have a set credo. Having a set credo doesn't prove you're wrong, but there is no sound evidence for it.

    We're back to the question of why you accept the Scriptures as needing to be followed but you don't accept the position of those who compiled them.

    By no means do I want you to take this as any sort of attack, but consider it at rebuttal.
  3. Like I said already stated I believe in the men who led to the process of making the KJV Bible. Which had the Textus Receiptus Manuscripts containing all the Books that were needed for the Bible. I can prove with Scripture that Jesus Christ is only the Son of God. And Scripture is the Truth. So if I have the truth in my hands and can prove the Truth with what it says and back it up with multiple scriptures. Then my belief is stronger than something that was only supposedly voted by a Council of men and was accepted by man throughout history but the Bible clearly says otherwise
  4. And Obviously the people who made the manuscripts involved in the Textus Receptus were the people who had the Holy Ghost in themselves to produce the Word of God
  5. Now the bad news.......IMHO, You can not be a Christian and reject the Trinity my friend!

    The Bible does not tell us that we must believe in the Trinity in order to become saved, that is, to become a Christian. On the other hand, true Christians will end up believing in the Trinity because it is the proper teaching concerning God's nature that has been revealed to us in Scripture. So, though someone may not understand the Trinity, when he or she becomes a Christian, eventually he will end up believing in it because he's a Christian.

    The doctrine of the Trinity is the proper biblical teaching concerning the nature of God. It is one of the defining elements and fundamentals of the Christian faith.
    C1oudwatch3r likes this.
  6. No my friend....it just means that YOU do not understand 1 Corth 11:3.

    It is an accepted fact that Christ is the head of the body which is the church.

    The man is the head of the family and of the woman. This constitutes the fundamental order in the race in the sense that THE HEAD OF CHRIST IS GOD!

    It would help you to understand that concept of headship does not connote qualitative or essential difference. It connotes a functional subordination. That is what is seen in the Trinity. The Father and Christ are co-equal yet the Son is answerable tot he Father....(Jn. 6:38; 10:29-30, 1 Corth. 15:28 and Phil. 2:6).

    It is all about correctly dividing the Word of God.
    C1oudwatch3r likes this.
  7. I posted this Scripture and verses very close to it because it proves that God is Unitarian! Pay close attention.

    Christ reedemed us from many things like sin and death but do you know who redeems Christ from hell??? The LORD This is why it says in Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

    God the LORD the Father is Christ's REEDMER!!! How?!?! Rememeber Christ only has authority of heaven and earth, but when he died he went to Hell! So how could Christ who died have left Hell if he has no authority while being in the Hell realm? It is the LORD who redeemed the Son from staying in hell and resurrecting! If Christ was God he cannot be his own redeemer! Once again Isaiah 44:6 says beside me there is no God. why?

    Christ will say Isaiah 44:8 "... is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any." and right after this Christ proves that God the Father is not there physically but spiritually because throughout history like with icons we made a depiction of God the LORD many times physically.

    Isa 44:9 "They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed."

    And I think for every Chrisitian this is important. Christ was CHOSEN by the LORD to be a sacrifice to save us. The LORD is our Saviour and Redeemer and Christ is the Sacrifice to to redeem and save us.

    Isaiah 49:26 "... And all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and the Redeemer..."

    See how all my points make sense? Why? Because all my scriptures tie in together and make perfect sense that Unitarian doctrine should no longer be a doctrine but Truth!
  8. I understand this Scripture very clearly the Holy Ghost is in me because I know I am saved. and actually John 6:38 proves my post right under yours perfectly still true because like I said Christ was Chosen by the Father to be the Sacrifice he didn't choose it.

    John 6:38 "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me."

    Thank you once again pointing out scripture that shows that being Unitarian is no longer being a Christian Unitarian but is actually just a Christian.

    And if you can't see it then well... idk what to tell yah
  9. We've certainly had our discussions in here regarding which Bibles we prefer, but are you suggesting no Bible ever had it together until the KJV?
  10. Hmmm, when it comes to theology, I prefer the teachings/ beliefs of the Early Church Fathers

    Rather than Founding Fathers of the USA....

    For obvious reasons : )
    Major, LysanderShapiro and Ghid says Amen and like this.
  11. I read an Adams biography. I think it was the one by McCullough. Two things stood out. When Adams attended the Continental Congress, he could not find a church of his own sect, so he attended a different sect every week in rotation. I thought he was a Congregationalist, but recently I learned that he was a Unitarian. He may have had theological ideas, but his major idea about religion was that everybody should make up their own mind. He was a big sponsor of Freedom of Religion.
  12. No like I said the people who made the manuscripts of the Textus Receptus had to have been the people who were making the right translation of the Bible in my opinion. And the Geneva Bible could potentially be another Bible since it also uses the Textus Receptus. And I know there were earlier Bible just don't know there Accuracy but the people who were establishing the KJV looked at more than the Textus Receptus as well.
  13. She was just give out a little fun fact that was all I believe lol
  14. Alrighty. Did you do a study on when history of the Bible, the translations of each era, when they came about, why they came about, which ones were notorious for error, ad even which books were left out of the canon and why?
  15. I have no desire to argue with you my friend. If you choose to keep the air of superiority and arrogance, fine with me as I really do not care and it effects me in no way. I have explained to you the verses in Isaiah and you reject that fact. That's on you.

    The truth is that none of your points make any sense. Your comprehension of Bible theology is astounding and I wonder where your erroneous understanding began and with whom?

    NO one redeemed Christ from hell. Christ went to the Paradise side of Hades and there He took the Old Test. saints with Him to heaven. There was NO redemption needed for Christ as Christ is the Creator of all things and as such has the power over death, hell and the grave. Your idea that Christ NEEDS to be redeemed is wrong and in fact heresy.

    The fact that your comprehension is so flawed is the result of your rejection of the Trinity. When one gets the beginning wrong....everything else follows suit. It is like the construction of a building. If the foundation is .1% off at the bottom, that will turn into 3 feet at the roof line.

    I would encourage you to start over and do some serious Bible study on the fundamentals and forget what others have told you.
    C1oudwatch3r likes this.
  16. You said "Christ went to the Paradise side of Hades and there He took the Old Test. saints with Him to heaven."

    1Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

    1Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

    Ephesians 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended FIRST into the lower parts of the earth?

    Ephesians 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

    Psalm 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

    Correcting myself. By my meaning of Hell I mean the place of punishment in Hades. Since now I have shown you scripture that he in fact was in this place of punishment, I have proved in scripture which is the truth, that he was in the place of punishment

    Romans 10:9 "...and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead..."
    God raised Christ from the dead not Christ himself.

    Isaiah 44:6 "...his reedemer..." Hebrew1350 Concordance says 1350 ga'al gaw-al' a primitive root, to redeem (according to the Oriental law of kinship), i.e. to be the next of kin (and as such to buy back a relative's property, marry his widow, etc.):--X in any wise, X at all, avenger, DELIVER, (do, perform the part of near, next) kinsfolk(-man), purchase, ransom, redeem(-er), revenger.

    Once this shows that this scripture would mean that God is Christ's redeemer meaning delivering him from where? The punishment realm of Hades and only God could resurrect Christ and then after Christ's resurrection he was on earth then finally ascended.

    Scripture is very clear about this.
  17. I've done some research before and have watched some good documentaries like "A Lamp in the Dark". I know about the the manuscripts Sinaiaticus and Vaticanus.
  18. No sir....you did not. Those verses do not say one thing about Christ going into the torments side of Sheol/Hades.

    There is no reason for Jesus to preach to those in torments as there are no 2nd chances after death. His purpose therefore according to Peter was to announce to those in torments that He, Christ was the one Noah told them about. You seem to have forgotten that there is a fixed gulf between torments and Paradise and although the rich man and Abraham could see and talk to each other neither could go where the other was at. Luke 16 would be of great help to your understanding.

    You said........" The punishment realm of Hades and only God could resurrect Christ".

    Do you not understand how far off of Bible teaching that you are????

  19. I'm not quite sure if I'm understanding what you are trying to bring across. If I have misunderstood, I apologise in advance, if not, then - with love - I have to agree with Major and say that I don't think you are understanding Scripture correctly.

    If you agree with me that Christ was without out sin, why would God send Him to a place of punishment. When He bore our sins on the cross, that work was completed. God required a blood sacrifice. Nothing else. Jesus himself said "It is finished."
    When Christ descended into Hades it was not as punishment, but to redeem those that could not redeem themselves.
    Saying it was as punishment is simply not scriptural.

    As for God raising Jesus;

    "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it.""

    "I lay down my life that I may take it up again."

    " If the same Spirit of Him that rose Jesus from the dead..."

    "... and you killed the Author of Life whom God raised from the dead...

    Scripture says that God rose Jesus from the dead, that Jesus rose himself from the dead and that the Spirit rose Jesus from the dead. Seeing as it is impossible for neither God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit to lie, it can only mean that they are one.
    Major likes this.
  20. The last three scriptures shows that God raised his Son from the dead.

    "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it." This scripture shows that in this very moment that God was speaking through his Son in this moment.
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