"Try the spirits"

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by fil3232003, Feb 19, 2011.

  1. God has His way of "trying the spirits" whether a person is true or a bogus Christian. This was revealed to John the Beloved Apostle:

    1 Joh 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

    1 Joh 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

    1 Joh 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
     
    Christine likes this.
  2. Yes, 1 John 4:1-3 is very essential revelation, the antichrists(ie the false clerics/believers) usually do not recognize/admit Jesus for the only true LORD Himself, but they witness other lords and gods such as: krishna, buddha, allah, jehovah(ie the idolatrously likenesses), etc., or (else) present themselves for Christ(-s) - they even could/may just to believe directly in the true God, but those their unclean occult/religious/spiritual directions/obsessions/tendencies/traditions/infections/epidemics/delusions/philosophies/theories/doctrines/knowledges/sciences/methods/ways/acts/spirits..... that they have to abandon.....
     
  3. Does not this "test" only apply to CHRISTIANITY where professing Christians cannot agree on the TRUTH?
    There is a "common basis" for this religion, the Holy Bible believed to contain the "inspsired words of God," and yet 1001 sects and denominations divided it!
     
  4. I note you speak as one who is not a Christian for you say "for THIS religion" and also "the Holy Bible believed to contain the "inspsired words of God." I would not expect a follower of Christ to speak in this fashion as it is the words one would speak of a religion that is not their own and who does not really believe the Bible to be the inspired word of God.

    But nonetheless it should be pointed out that what divides Christianity is not the word of God but the many words of religions spawned not from God but from the world. Just because a religious establishment stick the label of Christian on itself does not make it from the Lord any more than those religions who wear non-Christian labels.

    The prince of this world is a master of deception and disguise. Dressing up as a "Christian" and mimicing "Christianity" is part of the deception. In fact he has probably got quite a few on here doing the very same thing.

    THAT is why we must always test the spirits to see if they come from the Lord, or are just pretending (or under the mistaken illusion) they come from the Lord.
     
    Christine likes this.
  5. This may or not be appropriate to this thread,. My grandmother taught me that if I suspected someone being held by a dark spirit, demon or other nasty to say to them "Christo". That is Christ in Latin (and Italian). If the person before you is in control of the dark one, they will wince or pull away.

    Playing with spirits is some bad work. Tread carefully if you do. Best to stay away, love God and keep His counsel. The phonies fall away eventually.
     
  6. This is the "test for spirits" given to professing Christians

    * 1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

    * 1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

    * 1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

    How is this "test for spirits" applied to professing Christians when all "Confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh?"

    We have yet to hear any professing Christian denying that Jesus Christ did not come in the flesh.
     
  7. One of the best ways to 'try the spirits' (IMO) is to 'judge the fruit'. The most important fruit of the spirit for any Christian is love; if love abounds, you can take confidence that the spirit in question is probably the correct one.

    Another good way it to look at how much someone loves the teachings of Jesus. A lot of religious people profess to be Christians, but don't think the teachings of Jesus are very important. I find that kind of spirit to be quite 'questionable'. If people are not interested in the teachings of Jesus, they most likely aren't interested in following God. (Matthew 10:40)

    Then there's enthusiasm. At its root, the word just means 'filled with God'. Enthusiasm is a good sign of a positive spirit. A lack of enthusiasm implies the opposite.

    People also show their spirit through their mouth. The mouth speaks what the heart is full of. (Matthew 12:34-35) We can gage someone's spirit through what they say.

    People who don't have God's spirit aren't honest. They say different things to different people. They don't want a lot of people to listen when they talk. They want to talk to you away from other people. Usually, this is because they want to tell you lies about people who aren't there, and because they will be free to tell lies about what you said in return.

    If someone is telling the truth, they will want others to hear what they're saying. (John 3:20-21) It's usually best NOT to talk to people who want to talk secretly. (Luke 12:1-3)
    Finally, 'try the spirits' by studying the way people act and talk about money. The Bible says that this will tell us much about where someone's heart is. (Matthew 6:21-23) If people lose interest in 'serving God' when there is no money in it for them, and if they are quick to give arguments against giving money to others, or if they only become enthusiastic about something when they receive money for doing it, it's a good sign that they don't have God's Spirit. (Titus 1:11)
     
  8. First, there are several cults that claim they are Christian, but deny Jesus came in the flesh. JW's for one example.

    Second, Having a muttled doctrine that sprouted out of human reasoning, doesn't mean you are under demonic control. There are many more cults that are just making things up as to how they think it should be. I doubt satan bothers with them at all.

    The verses about are basically a test for demonic influences involved in human organizations or to tell a godly spirit from an evil one.

    As for the 1001 denominations. True Christian denominations all adhere to the same basic doctrines. There is nothing substantial that divides us.
     
  9. I've heard Christians say different things to different people, too. Just because someone might cave at some point and not say exactly what they really believe ...perhaps to avoid and unpleasant encounter....doesn't mean they are not really a Christian. None of us is pertfect.

    I've also met a lot of misguided yet enthusiastic individuals.

    Now, I'm wondering what your definition of love is. The Lord disciplines those He loves, yet some might consider enforcing consequences as unloving. Often, what people see as loving isn't love at all, but rather a feel-good policy. The real fruit is not what we see here on Earth, but the eternal effects of our service to God.

    I hope this doesn't sound like I'm nit-picking at your words, all the things you said are good, but we ned to be very careful when judging such things. It's far to easy to misjudge someone in one direction or the other.
     
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  10. God is giving us this specific "test for spirits."

    1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

    1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

    How about delving/concentrating on this particular subject?
     
  11. But what of those who confess Jesus came in the flesh but not that He is the CHRIST? And what of those who, having the outward appearance of "Christianity" deny the power of Christ??

    I would expect a true follower of Christ to follow, and profess and teach, and be obedient to, the TRUE doctrine of CHRIST. The doctrine the Bible ITSELF actually declares and not another doctrine not in accordance with it. Indeed the Apostles declared such a person who teaches and professes another doctrine than the one they had already delivered should be accursed!

    Just thrown in for people to think about.
     
  12. First, fil3232003, a very good word.

    Now, on to the matters addressed and refuted. I would like to say rebutted but i am unable! When any man of God brings forth the clear Word of God and is rebuked there is a demon problem! Please... patients! I did not say the rest of you are possessed and for that matter, a Christian cannot be indwelt with evil spirits. What can, and does, happen is a Child of God will move off into the Carnal Nature, Quince the Holy Spirit and is then "Influenced" by demons, evil spirits, fallen angels or your choice here!

    What this gentleman has presented you with is the clear Word of God and to dispute it is not of God!
     
  13. Fil wrote:



    Hi Fil,
    I agree that the verse cited (1 John 4:2-3) is one way to 'test for spirits'. But is it the only way?

    If you re-read what I wrote, you will say that I listed several other ways given in the Bible for us to judge someone's spirit, e.g. by examining the 'fruit', listening to what they say, or observing their attitude toward money. These are all legitimate ways to 'try the spirits' according to the Bible. Rather than being contrary to what the apostle John wrote in 1 John 4, why not see them as working together with that passage, to complete the overall picture?

    Now, having said that, may I ask how you interpret the specific passage in question (1 John 4:2-3), and how you see that fitting in with all of the other scriptural approaches to trying spirits? Thanks.
     
  14. Thank you, kweli tu.

    God is very clear on this particular "test" separating His "chosen" from the "called." If we will notice CHRISTIANITY is based on the Holy Bible, and JESUS CHRIST is the accepted Savior, Redeemer, or Messiah. Yet, with the 1001 sects and denominations, CHRISTIANITY is divided by the way religious leaders preach about the IDENTITY of Jesus Christ:

    Some preach, "Jesus is only a man and not God."
    Others preach, "Jesus is only a Mighty God for there is a supreme or Almighty God."
    Still others preach, "Jesus Christ is the NAME of the Father and the Holy Spirit."
    Many preach, "Jesus is both God and man, and He is the second person of th Trinity."

    ALL preach and "Confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh," and yet RELIGIOUS LEADERS cannot agree on His IDENTITY! Is it not clear that GOD is wanting all of us to pinpint WHO the True JESUS that came in the flesh, so that we will ALL be exempted from His very sharp rebuke:

    * John 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

    From the foregoing, Jesus wants us all to know or identify the FATHER!

    Everybody can describe the FATHER, but we need to identify HIM (the FATHER) through JESUS CHRIST.
     
  15. If the spirit is source of (some) evil, then it is sure that is unclean:

    Luke 9:51-56 "And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem, And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village."
     
  16. No they do not "all preach Jesus came in the flesh" that's how we know they are NOT Christians, even tho they claim that title.

    I thought I already addressed this ginving the example of the JW's who deny Jesus. maybe that was a different thread. (shrug)
     
  17. I have interviewed different sects with diverse recognitions of "Jesus Christ."

    1. To the sects believing, "Jesus Christ is only a man and not God," the members readily declared, "Jesus Christ came in the flesh" that is why He is only a man.

    2. The members of the Jehovah Witness believing, "Jesus Christ is only a Mighty God for there is a supreme or Almighty God," try this, and surely they will definitely declare, "Jesus Christ is come in the flesh."

    3. Those who believe that "Jesus Christ is the name of the Father and the Holy Spirit, they happily declare, "Jesus Christ is come in the flesh."

    4. To the believers of the Trinity doctrine, which I suppose many are participants on this Thread, of course, "They declare Jesus Christ is come in the flesh."

    So "where is" the "test for spirits" so as to distinguished the "chosen" from the "called?"
     
  18. With all due respect, you have misunderstood on two points.

    1.
    1 Joh 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

    I do believe someone has already pointed out, there is a difference between testing for evil spirits and the anti-christ, and people who misunderstand or are temporarily following their own wisdom.

    2. I have spoken with many, many people from various cults. JWs do not confess Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.

    Perhaps you don't know what the phrase means. It means Jesus is God incarnate. JWs believe Jesus was a created being.
     
  19. The test that distinguishes the chosen from the called IS A CHANGED LIFE!!!

    The church is full of MEMBERS but that does not mean that they are saved people. All that church membership gives one is the ability to vote during a business meeting. Let’s assume first of all that there’s a lot of people in the church that aren't saved because there are a lot of tares sown among the wheat, Matthew 13. There’s a lot of people on the broad road instead of the narrow way. People always say, "I don’t want to join the church because there are too many hypocrites there." And my answer to that is, "Well it’s OK, we’ve got room for more, you’re welcome." Because that’s a hypocritical response, you see.

    But basically, I think when you get to the first of "many are called but few are chosen," it simply means that the gospel is preached to many, but few respond and manifest having been chosen by God. In other words, God has extended the gospel call to many, but there are only a few who respond. And if you look at it from God’s point of view, He calls many but only a few are chosen. Now I don’t think that that means that the Lord is calling all these people into the church! I think the Lord is calling the true people into the church and the false ones infiltrate it. And they may not realize they are Satan's ambassadors but that’s what it turns out to be. It's like one pastor said to me one time, "I think I figured out our problem, half our board is saved and half of them aren't." Well that would be a problem, a real problem and IT IS THE PROBLEM.

    Dr. Billy Graham was once asked what the percentage of church members were that he believed were saved. He said 25%. I agree with my friend Dr. Graham.

    I will put it another way, I hope that people who are unsaved get miserable when they come to church. Do you know what I am saying? I mean if I was unsaved, I won’t come to this church. Why would I sit here and here all this stuff? I don’t want to be upset all the time, I’d go somewhere else. I'd go down and hear "hearts and flowers" or something. Either you are going to believe this or you are going to leave. You are not just going to hang around and be uncomfortable, although it is amazing that some people do. But I think that God has extended the gospel call to the whole wide world in a sense and only a few believe.
     
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  20. It is irreavlant what other "SECTS" believe.

    What IS the important thing is what the Bible says !!!!

    Think! Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” When first encountered, this might not seem to be a claim to be God. However, when we look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement, “For a good work we stone thee not; replied the Jews, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.” (John 10:33). Now we see an actual claim. The Jews understood Jesus’ statement to be a claim to be God. In the following verses, Jesus never corrects the Jews by saying, “I did not claim to be God.” That indicates Jesus was truly saying He was God by declaring, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30).

    John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, "I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. " Again, in response, the Jews take up stones in an attempt to stone Jesus (John 8:59). Why would the Jews want to stone Jesus if He hadn’t said something they believed to be blasphemous, namely, a claim to be God? John repeatedly tells us of the Lord's connection to "I Am". See John: 4:26, 8:24, 8:28, 8:58,and 13:19. The Apostle Paul tells us that Jesus "..is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." (Colossians 1:15-17)

    John 1:1 says that “the Word was God.” John 1:14 says that “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us” This clearly indicates that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, "...Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood." Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. Acts 20:28 declares that God purchased the church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!
    To try and grasp the Trinity, first understand that God the Father the Son and Holy Spirit are Spirit, light, awesomeness, power, justice and love -- and He in no way conforms to a human's understanding. Jesus told us God is Spirit. Shine two beams of light on the same spot, and you have the light of one, separate, yet also the same as the others. An example of Jesus' light and the Father's light as the same is at this true Near Death Experience here
    Next, try to grasp Jesus' nature as being both totally human and totally God. To help you with this consider these paradoxes by early church father Gregory of Nazianzus (329-390 A.D.). Gregory used these to argue against Arianism.

    "He was baptized as a man -- but He remitted sins as God...He was tempted as man, but he conquered as God...He hungered -- but He fed thousands...He was wearied, but He is the rest of them that are weary and heavy-laden. He was heavy with sleep, but He walked lightly over the sea...He pays tribute, but it is out of a fish; yea He is the king of those who demanded it...He prays, but he hears prayer. He weeps, but He causes tears to cease. He asks where Lazarus was laid, for He was man; but He raises Lazarus, for He was God. He is sold, and very cheap, for it is only for thirty pieces of silver; but He redeems the world, and that at a great price, for the price was His blood. As a sheep he is led to the slaughter, but He is the shepherd of Israel, and now of the whole world also...He is bruised and wounded, but He heals every disease and every infirmity. He is lifted up and nailed to the tree, but by the tree of life He restores us. He dies, but he gives life, and by His death He destroys death."

    Cyril of Alexandria (376 - 444 AD) says, ‘Indeed, the mystery of Christ runs the risk of being disbelieved precisely because it is so incredibly wonderful. For God was in humanity. He who was above all creation was in our human condition; the invisible one was made visible in the flesh; he who is from the heavens and from on high was in the likeness of earthly things; the immaterial one could be touched; he who is free in his own nature came in the form of a slave; he who blesses all creation became accursed; he who is all righteousness was numbered among the transgressors; life itself came in the appearance of death. All this followed because the body, which tasted death, belonged to no other but to him who is the Son by nature,’ [On the Unity of Christ]
    And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16
    Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14 (written: 712 BC (Before Christ)

    Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Matthew 1:23

    For unto us a Child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder: and his name will be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6 (written: 712 BC (Before Christ)

    And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people. Luke 7:16

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

    because he had not only broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making Himself equal with God. John 5:18
    Jesus said:
    I and my Father are one. John 10:30

    The Jews answered him [Jesus], saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. John 10:33
    When many were about to stone Jesus for blasphemy (John 10:30-39), He said to them that said he blasphemed "because I said, I am the Son of God?" (John 10:36).

    You call Me Teacher and Lord; and ye say well; for so I Am. John 13:13

    But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
    And Jesus said, I Am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Mark 14:61-62
    The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. Psalm 110:1

    he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? John 14:9
    "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works." ( /www.jesuscentral.com/ji/life-of-jesus-ancient/biography-of-jesus-christ/who-is-Jesus-by-john/gospel-of-john-14_5-14.php href="http://www.jesuscentral.com/ji/life...o-is-Jesus-by-john/gospel-of-john-14_5-14.php" target=_top>/www.jesuscentral.com/ji/life-of-jesus-ancient/biography-of-jesus-christ/who-is-Jesus-by-john/gospel-of-john-14_5-14.php color=#660000 size=3 face=Arial>John 14:10)

    And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5

    And Thomas answered and said unto him [Jesus], My Lord and my God. John 20:28

    ...lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2 Corinthians 4:4
    In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Colossians 1:14-17

    ...Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Philippians 2:6

    ...For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Colossians 2:9

    And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

    ...who [Jesus] is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 1 Timothy 6:15

    Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high. Hebrews 1:2-3

    But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:8

    Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Titus 2:13

    And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. Revelation 19:16

    I know Muslims and Mormons, Christian Scientists, Jehovah Witnesses, Unitarians, Scientologists, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Seventh Day Adventists -and many others - will not want to hear this, but the Bible declares that Jesus was the FINAL revelation of God to man (Hebrews 1:1-3). There have been no others.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     

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