Glad to see someone is keeping track off my records
Tongues And Prophecy - Benefit For Whom?
- Thread starter Ravindran
- Start date
- Status
I notice random things.Glad to see someone is keeping track off my records
I thought you are the official book keeper.. And you will visit every profile every day to see if they have reached any milestone and congratulate them appropriately.. I think that's a fancy job you will like
This is what I think happened the one time I spoke in tongues.
They had gossiped, causing a good pastor to be removed.
They fought against G-d in doing this.
There was child abuse.
There was sexual abuse.
. . . and more. This was the worst of what was going on.
I believe judgment fell that day.
The first evens signs of tongues happens in pentecost. It is quite explicit that it was human languages.. After that, at what point of time Bible explains that tongues is a spiritual language as well? I am trying to get to that. If this verse talks about both, then it is an assumption that there are 2 kinds of tongues.. Which would mean, there should be some other place where this is explicitly mentioned. Because the more I study, it seems tongues are always referring to some form of human language only (when rest of the verses in the chapter are considered)
I have always believed there are 2 kinds of tongues. I am trying to validate my understanding through Word of God. Because even if every one else on the planet believes something else, it does not make it truth! Word of God is the ultimate authority. So no number of human experiences can validate these things. That is why I am probing. So for everyone, please don't take this as a stab against anyone's belief. I am only trying to understand my own belief
There are two uses for tongues, and the private use, which is solely for our edification, can be any language on earth or angelic. It really doesn't matter, as it is not meant for our understanding.
Paul teaches that no matter what, whether we speak an earthly language that can be understood by all or a heavenly tongue, we need to be operating with agape love.
Right.. But which are the verses which talks about the 2 uses of tongues? Because I used to look at certain verses in a different way.. Now I am looking them a different way! That's why I am asking..
Paul instructs about the public, prophetic use of tongues when he talks about making sure there is an interpreter.
1 Corinthians 14:3-4
But one who prophesies strengthens others, encourages them, and comforts them. 4 A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church.
He mentions the private, ministering use of tongues when he mentions singing, praying in the spirit. He also declares that he does it often.
1 Corinthians 14:3-4
But one who prophesies strengthens others, encourages them, and comforts them. 4 A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church.
He mentions the private, ministering use of tongues when he mentions singing, praying in the spirit. He also declares that he does it often.
First we need to read what Paul said and not jump to conclusions for our own purpose.
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 1 Cor 13:1
Paul is not teaching on tongues, he is teaching about love, and it is a simile, a comparison not necessarily fact, how do we know that, can we confirm it from the Word, yes,
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 2Co 12:2-4
Paul is telling us he heard words being spoken, was it angels speaking, or was it redeemed men, I have to question how redeemed men could speak it they are present with Christ, but haven't yet received their glorified bodies, it could of been Enoch and Elijah, they both went to Heaven in there physical bodies, but I seriously doubt they would be talking in the presence of God, Cherubim and Angels, and besides if it were them Paul would probably said he saw them there, so that just leaves God, Cherubim and angels that he heard and he said it would be unlawful for man to speak the words he had heard, ...so if Paul says, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, it would be unlawful to speak in the language of angels, then it's only logical that 1 Cor 13:1 is a simile and the Holy Spirit is not inspiring Paul to teach that it would be lawful for men to speak their language, ...the Holy Spirit does not contradict Himself, if it seems like a contradiction then we are the ones who have misinterpreted it.
Rav, Thomas probably spoke in tongues, but we have also experienced the Holy Spirit translating for us a foreign language we were hearing, we have heard Tahitian being spoken, but in our ears it was English, we have heard both Spanish and Germain being spoken by visiting brothers while we were breaking bread with them and when it reached our ears it was English, French and Tahitian simultaneously, ...personally, I think there is so much more than we can imagine if we take Paul's advice and seek after love, the greatest gift of all, ...I believe those that seek out, earnestly desire to speak in tongues are actually limiting themselves with what God wants to do in their lives.
One more thing,
For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 1Co 14:14
When Thomas was giving the Gospel to the Indians, when he ask them if they wanted to receive Jesus, do you think he prayed in the Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew, or the Indian tongue for them?
And I sing in the spirit all the time the songs I know in English that the church is singing in Tahitian or French, when I sing with them in Tahitian my spirit is fruitful, but I don't understand what I'm singing, but the church is worshiping the Lord, ...it's not difficult to understand and we don't have to be super spiritual, ...remember, Jesus said we are to be converted and become like little children.
Blessings,
Gene
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 1 Cor 13:1
Paul is not teaching on tongues, he is teaching about love, and it is a simile, a comparison not necessarily fact, how do we know that, can we confirm it from the Word, yes,
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 2Co 12:2-4Paul is telling us he heard words being spoken, was it angels speaking, or was it redeemed men, I have to question how redeemed men could speak it they are present with Christ, but haven't yet received their glorified bodies, it could of been Enoch and Elijah, they both went to Heaven in there physical bodies, but I seriously doubt they would be talking in the presence of God, Cherubim and Angels, and besides if it were them Paul would probably said he saw them there, so that just leaves God, Cherubim and angels that he heard and he said it would be unlawful for man to speak the words he had heard, ...so if Paul says, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, it would be unlawful to speak in the language of angels, then it's only logical that 1 Cor 13:1 is a simile and the Holy Spirit is not inspiring Paul to teach that it would be lawful for men to speak their language, ...the Holy Spirit does not contradict Himself, if it seems like a contradiction then we are the ones who have misinterpreted it.
Rav, Thomas probably spoke in tongues, but we have also experienced the Holy Spirit translating for us a foreign language we were hearing, we have heard Tahitian being spoken, but in our ears it was English, we have heard both Spanish and Germain being spoken by visiting brothers while we were breaking bread with them and when it reached our ears it was English, French and Tahitian simultaneously, ...personally, I think there is so much more than we can imagine if we take Paul's advice and seek after love, the greatest gift of all, ...I believe those that seek out, earnestly desire to speak in tongues are actually limiting themselves with what God wants to do in their lives.
One more thing,
For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 1Co 14:14
When Thomas was giving the Gospel to the Indians, when he ask them if they wanted to receive Jesus, do you think he prayed in the Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew, or the Indian tongue for them?
And I sing in the spirit all the time the songs I know in English that the church is singing in Tahitian or French, when I sing with them in Tahitian my spirit is fruitful, but I don't understand what I'm singing, but the church is worshiping the Lord, ...it's not difficult to understand and we don't have to be super spiritual, ...remember, Jesus said we are to be converted and become like little children.
Blessings,
Gene
1 Corinthians 13:1 (KJV)
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become [as] sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
Acts 2:4 (KJV)
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
1 Corinthians 12:10 (KJV)
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
As I've stated there are three types of tongues. I hope this helps.
Technology won't help.
1 Cor 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.
That's right. It would be an affront to God.
Agreed!
1 Corinthians 13:8-12English Standard Version (ESV)
8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known."
I believe that the "perfect one" is the Word of God. Grammatically, it means "mature/full". Since the only other perfect thing was Jesus, and He was not a THING but was in fact the God-man, it means to me that when the Bible is completed, the signs that the apostles had would then go away.
The reason for the sign gifts was to validate the works of the apostles as God's spokesmen on the earth.
As an apostle Paul had all of the sign gifts.
Using technology to uncover possible deception is an affront to God.
Are you serious or just having a go at us?
The "perfect" is Jesus, and His Kingdom, where we will no loner require the spiritual gifts to edify and build the Church, because the Church will already be perfected or complete. Until that time comes, we all need the use of the many gifts of God to enable us to do the work of the Kingdom---until He comes.
It's a serious matter to try to circumvent the Spirit in such a way. He provides the interpretation and translation. We don't have to manipulate the spoken language by trying to write it and decipher it.
Holy Spirit has always been able to help us discern deception perfectly. Why do you think man can do it better? Are you serious?
First we need to read what Paul said and not jump to conclusions for our own purpose.
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 1 Cor 13:1
Paul is not teaching on tongues, he is teaching about love, and it is a simile, a comparison not necessarily fact, how do we know that, can we confirm it from the Word, yes,
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
Paul is telling us he heard words being spoken, was it angels speaking, or was it redeemed men, I have to question how redeemed men could speak it they are present with Christ, but haven't yet received their glorified bodies, it could of been Enoch and Elijah, they both went to Heaven in there physical bodies, but I seriously doubt they would be talking in the presence of God, Cherubim and Angels, and besides if it were them Paul would probably said he saw them there, so that just leaves God, Cherubim and angels that he heard and he said it would be unlawful for man to speak the words he had heard, ...so if Paul says, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, it would be unlawful to speak in the language of angels, then it's only logical that 1 Cor 13:1 is a simile and the Holy Spirit is not inspiring Paul to teach that it would be lawful for men to speak their language, ...the Holy Spirit does not contradict Himself, if it seems like a contradiction then we are the ones who have misinterpreted it.
Rav, Thomas probably spoke in tongues, but we have also experienced the Holy Spirit translating for us a foreign language we were hearing, we have heard Tahitian being spoken, but in our ears it was English, we have heard both Spanish and Germain being spoken by visiting brothers while we were breaking bread with them and when it reached our ears it was English, French and Tahitian simultaneously, ...personally, I think there is so much more than we can imagine if we take Paul's advice and seek after love, the greatest gift of all, ...I believe those that seek out, earnestly desire to speak in tongues are actually limiting themselves with what God wants to do in their lives.
One more thing,
For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 1Co 14:14
When Thomas was giving the Gospel to the Indians, when he ask them if they wanted to receive Jesus, do you think he prayed in the Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew, or the Indian tongue for them?
And I sing in the spirit all the time the songs I know in English that the church is singing in Tahitian or French, when I sing with them in Tahitian my spirit is fruitful, but I don't understand what I'm singing, but the church is worshiping the Lord, ...it's not difficult to understand and we don't have to be super spiritual, ...remember, Jesus said we are to be converted and become like little children.
Blessings,
Gene
In addition to this, those who want to believe that speaking in tongues must correctly explain what God meant in 1 Corinthians 14:
1 Corinthians 14:32-35English Standard Version (ESV)
32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. 33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.
As in all the churches of the saints, 34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. 35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church."
Obviously this must be interpreted in light of 11:5 where it is abundantly clear that women were permitted to teach and pray in public as long as they were properly dressed.
So then what was Paul saying in verses 32-35??????
Speaking in tongues. Read verses 6-31 of 1 Corth. 14 and you will see that Paul is talking about TONGUES.
DO NOT take my word for this but everyone needs to read the verses for yourself!!!! Women were denied the opportunity to speak in tongues in church. The Bible clearly says that women were not to speak in tongues in the church.
Now, why are 90% of tongues spoken in church's today done so by women. Ladies, I am not picking on you or arguing with you are demeaning you. I LOVE YOU and In fact I have been married to a woman for 47 years. But what the Bible tells us is the truth of how we are to act and live.
Now, is there someone who will attempt to explain the verses I posted??? By that I mean, Biblically and not an opinion or denominational teaching.
That my dear is the normal denominational explination. BUT........in the Greek, it would be impossible for the perfect one to be Jesus as Jesus was a HUMAN BEING/God Man and the Greek is neuter meaning is that the perfect one was/is and "IT", a THING , Not a human or God-man but a "thing".
The only perfect then must be the Bible, the mature, complete Word of God.
I know that is not what you want to hear but the Greek grammatical rendering can not be changed or explained away. It is what it is and we must adapt and understand then the only "thing" it could be. The Bible!
Last edited:
I know what you are saying, BUT hasn't technology allowed man to translate the Bible from Greek and Hebrew and all the other dialects into English and then into Spanish, French, Russian and...........
And yet, millions are deceived by "wonders" told to be from God every single day.
As fruit inspectors we need every tool possible to knock down false signs and wonders.
It is GOD that gives us these tools to do this, or else we would NOT have them.
I remember a time when personal computers were being taught by Christians to be the work of Satan. They are evil,
not of God and should be shunned.
And yet here we all are. On PCs. Having fellowship with Christians.
Technology is a gift from God.
How we USE them is what either justifies or defiles.
Technology that can spot a deceiver that pretends to use tongues when they do not; is a good thing.
Is of God and in accordance to our work as fruit inspectors.
To say nay to it, is to remove an arrow from your quiver that could bring down a deceiver.
Refuse not an arrow to slay deception.
- Status