To Touch A Holy Thing.

Ravindran said:
Nothing much to debate here.. But when we look at other incidents in Bible, it might be doubtful if we can come to this conclusion. Think of David eating holy bread. When Jesus quotes the same in NT, it sort of indicates that David did break the law. If Uzza's heart was really right, then would God not have extended His mercy? We are talking about Holy God. But we are also talking about God of mercy. That's why I am inclined the other way. But I am not putting my foot and saying what you said is wrong :) Just a different perspective
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Even now, after reading everyone's replies, I have a lot of questions in my mind as to why Uzza had to die. In the case of Ananias & Sapphira, in the New Covenant Book of Acts, I understand why they died. They lied to the Holy Spirit about their gift. Here, we are given no information about Uzza's heart motive other than he moved instantly to help the Ark from falling.

I think that David was angry with God's decision to kill Uzza. Like me, I've been angry with God on more occasions than I'd like to mention. My frustrations with my Heavenly Father come from the fact that His ways are not my ways, He is past finding out. In this case, I have to conclude that the whole process of moving the Ark was out of the will of God. As a result, it's a wonder that any of those in that company of Ark movers were spared, including David who failed to "inquire of the LORD most high".

Thank you Ravindran for your thoughts on this subject. I always look forward to your comments and instructions....Love You!
 
Uzza was not the only one to die when around the ark, was he? Maybe I'm mixing up the strange fire verses. But bad things happened when the Philistines captured the ark in 1 Samuel. It was unpredictable. The links and poles had to be used to move the ark and it's implied that touching the ark otherwise was always wrong. Idk - all of this is in line with Israel losing the ark in the first place right?
 
There were two other instances where the Arch of the covenant had mishaps. The philistines captured the Arch, and placed it inside their temple, latter the next day the images of their gods were destroyed. They then moved it to another town, and all the men there received "boils". Again they move the Arch to another town, and all the men again received "boils" and died!! This shows us God has mercy on those who are ignorant of the things of God for a time. The Philistines decided they did not want the Arch anymore and gave it back to a Israelite town. The people in this town knew what the Arch was and how it was suppose to be handled, but be cause of their curiosity decided it open it and look inside. They died instantly. Now David gets the Arch and decides to move it, but not using the way the Lord had commanded Moses. There was only one family who was allowed to move the Arch, and there was only one way it was to be moved. Uzzah should have been aware of these requirements. I see two reasons for his (Uzzah) demise.

Jas_4:17.. Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Heb 10:26.. For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27.. but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.
 
CCW95A said:
There were two other instances where the Arch of the covenant had mishaps. The philistines captured the Arch, and placed it inside their temple, latter the next day the images of their gods were destroyed. They then moved it to another town, and all the men there received "boils". Again they move the Arch to another town, and all the men again received "boils" and died!! This shows us God has mercy on those who are ignorant of the things of God for a time. The Philistines decided they did not want the Arch anymore and gave it back to a Israelite town. The people in this town knew what the Arch was and how it was suppose to be handled, but be cause of their curiosity decided it open it and look inside. They died instantly. Now David gets the Arch and decides to move it, but not using the way the Lord had commanded Moses. There was only one family who was allowed to move the Arch, and there was only one way it was to be moved. Uzzah should have been aware of these requirements. I see two reasons for his (Uzzah) demise.

Jas_4:17.. Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Heb 10:26.. For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27.. but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.
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BTW it's ark brother, not arch. One is a box the other is a curved supporting structure. ;)
 
CCW95A said:
There were two other instances where the Arch of the covenant had mishaps. The philistines captured the Arch, and placed it inside their temple, latter the next day the images of their gods were destroyed. They then moved it to another town, and all the men there received "boils". Again they move the Arch to another town, and all the men again received "boils" and died!! This shows us God has mercy on those who are ignorant of the things of God for a time. The Philistines decided they did not want the Arch anymore and gave it back to a Israelite town. The people in this town knew what the Arch was and how it was suppose to be handled, but be cause of their curiosity decided it open it and look inside. They died instantly. Now David gets the Arch and decides to move it, but not using the way the Lord had commanded Moses. There was only one family who was allowed to move the Arch, and there was only one way it was to be moved. Uzzah should have been aware of these requirements. I see two reasons for his (Uzzah) demise.

Jas_4:17.. Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Heb 10:26.. For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27.. but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.
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Very good my friend. The correct spelling is Ark, not Arch....just saying.
 
Does anyone know the Hebrew meaning of the name Uzza? Under one of the listings of sons of Kohath (son of Levi) is the name Uzziel. So could Uzza be a Levite? And it should be noted that even so, 2 sons of Aaron offered "strange fire" to God (the ark?) and were struck down immediately. So even those appointed made mistakes and paid. MacArthur uses these verses in point against those who (charismatics) offer strange doctrines as worship to God. So, if I as mixing verses, maybe it was about the same things as what Uzza did? Here's the strange fire verses:
Lev_10:1
And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not.
Num_3:4
And Nadab and Abihu died before the LORD, when they offered strange fire before the LORD, in the wilderness of Sinai, and they had no children: and Eleazar and Ithamar ministered in the priest's office in the sight of Aaron their father.
 
The title of the thread intrigued me because most of us want to touch that which is holy expecting good benefits: ie hems and clothing worn, slivers of the true cross, etc. I have something I think the Lord touched and I am afraid to look on it.
 
I can see some other things concerning how the "ark" of the covenant as to why the Lord disapproved of how it was transported. Uzza used a "cart" drawn by "oxen" to pulled, and transport the ark. God commanded that the ark be transported by men, who would bear it upon their shoulders. Inside that ark was the ten commandments, a jar of manna, and Aron's rod that had budded. It was "man" who would bear the burden of the law written in their hearts, and it would be God who would gave man to eat from the "hidden manna", not an "animal" ( oxen)!! God would give man "authority" represented by Aron's rod, and not some beast of burden.
 
Silk said:
Does anyone know the Hebrew meaning of the name Uzza? Under one of the listings of sons of Kohath (son of Levi) is the name Uzziel. So could Uzza be a Levite? And it should be noted that even so, 2 sons of Aaron offered "strange fire" to God (the ark?) and were struck down immediately. So even those appointed made mistakes and paid. MacArthur uses these verses in point against those who (charismatics) offer strange doctrines as worship to God. So, if I as mixing verses, maybe it was about the same things as what Uzza did? Here's the strange fire verses:
Lev_10:1
And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not.
Num_3:4
And Nadab and Abihu died before the LORD, when they offered strange fire before the LORD, in the wilderness of Sinai, and they had no children: and Eleazar and Ithamar ministered in the priest's office in the sight of Aaron their father.
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It means Strength...
 
Stray thoughts: Think on the trail of the ark. The Israelites lost it. Ask why. They went against God's will and the ark was captured by Philistines. The Philistines were afraid of it and sent it back to Israel by way of a cart and beast, unattended. It came back to Israel and was left 20 years in the same town. Ask yourself why it was left. It was between the time of judges and kings. King Saul called for it's return and did he send 4 Levites to carry it? They treated their most valued treasure poorly. Just my 2 cents worth of stray thoughts.
 
Abdicate said:
Think how many times you're in a good mood, things are going well, you have peace with God and man, and *WAM!* something happens to ruin the moment. Confusion pops up, then anger at being robbed of the moment, then frustration on just what went wrong, then the self-blame, blaming others, etc. It's a vicious cycle. Well, it's what I got out of it :D
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Good explanation.
 
Chopper said:
In my study of the history of Israel in the "Old Covenant" I came upon 1 Chronicles 13:9-12.

1Chronicles 13:9 and when they came unto the threshingfloor of Chidon, Uzza put forth his hand to hold the ark; for the oxen stumbled. 13:10 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzza, and he smote him, because he put his hand to the ark: and there he died before God. 13:11 And David was displeased, because the LORD had made a breach upon Uzza: wherefore that place is called Perezuzza to this day. 13:12 And David was afraid of God that day, saying, How shall I bring the ark of God home to me?

A study of the entire Chapter 13, tells the whole story. My point today is to glean from this incident adequate warning for all of us as we handle Holy things of God. More precisely, does this incident with Uzza cast a shadow of a reverential fear and caution as we handle the Word of God....In what ways?
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I am puzzled. Why do you equate carrying the Ark of the Covenant with handling the word of God, and what do you mean by the "word of God"
 
Francis Drake said:
I am puzzled. Why do you equate carrying the Ark of the Covenant with handling the word of God, and what do you mean by the "word of God"
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Both are Holy. The Ark held the Words of God, the Bible holds the Word of God. My point in comparing the two was as a caution that we should not treat the Word of God in a callous manner....The Word of God are the holy Scriptures, the Bible....Why would you even question this?
 
Chopper said:
Both are Holy. The Ark held the Words of God, the Bible holds the Word of God. My point in comparing the two was as a caution that we should not treat the Word of God in a callous manner....The Word of God are the holy Scriptures, the Bible....Why would you even question this?
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I would question it because the "Word of God" is not the Holy Scriptures are they?
The "Word of God" is Jesus, God the creator.
You said,-
"More precisely, does this incident with Uzza cast a shadow of a reverential fear and caution as we handle the Word of God"
Not trying to be unkind, but you seem to have failed on the very point you made at the beginning about handling the "word of God" You have demoted the Word of God, from being the all powerful Creator God down to being a bible.
 
Let's take the heat out of this thread before it escalates to a point whereas my colleagues and I are forced to close it.
Thank you for your co-operation.
 
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