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to be baptized unto Christ's death

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by willing_servant, Dec 17, 2008.

  1. to be baptized unto Christ's death

    Paul writes that to be baptized means to be baptized unto the death of Jesus Christ. What does that really mean?
  2. Death to our old lives and alive to God in Christ. No death= no ressurection power.
    Embrace the cross, die daily, lay down our lives- all these things are to be our daily lifestyle. No longer following our sinful flesh but putting it to death and following God's will.

    Eph 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
    Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
    Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
    Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

    Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
    Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
  3. Unto Death

    Look at these. Compare Scriptures with a bible program or concordance. The King James is the best to use for comparison then look at other translations.

    2Co 4:11 For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

    Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
    Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

    2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

    When born again we get a new spirit (We are spirits clothed with a flesh body that helps us get around on earth.) The old spirit (Satanic nature.) is put to death.

    Nothing was done with your flesh however and how you use to think, but you are now empowered from the inside out to.

    1) Understand the Word of God.
    2) Get control over you flesh.
    3) Operate in the Kingdom of God and not the World systems.
    4) Lost earth as your home as Heaven is now your real home and your just hanging out for a very short time to be a witness Jesus.

    Now being a child of God all things have become new. That includes everything!! Sadly a lot of Christians don't even realize this.

    Your old man or old unsaved self is put to death with Christ (The anointed one, and his anointing) Jesus. You are not subject to the world standards anymore. sickness should no longer be an issue for you, money problems should no longer be an issue for you, You should have peace and assurance in a Father that cares for you and protects you.

    However, your mind needs to be in agreement with your new spirit and Holy Spirit. So, we have the Word of God to renew ourselves and focus on instead of all the world Junk.

    Your a child of God born of the incorruptible seed from the Word of God itself. Your a citizen of Heaven and not earth so you have rights you did not use to have.

    Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

    Notice the verse says "Without God in the WORLD." Lots of Christians are waiting to get to heaven to get victory over sickness, sadness, poverty, ETC..... but your a child of God now and not latter.

    So, being put to death in Baptism is a symbol that your old man (satanic nature or spirit) was put to death with Christ Jesus and your now a new man born of God and no longer subject to death or spiritual death.

    Sure your body is going to stop working some day and will not be able to sustain your spirit (If the Lord waits a little longer.) but you have great promises while on earth to get victory over anything the devil can throw at you.

    The key is keeping your mind renewed and do not let your old flesh man take over and obey Satan. To obey the lust of the flesh or follow after the devil's suggestions is to get right in to his hands and suffer stupid things you never had to. Stay on God's side of the tracks and live the new life, learning all that is now yours.

    Jesus Is Lord.
  4. Thanks Mike and Boanerges.

    Although I must say I have a reservation about your post, Mike. To be a christian doesn't mean that now I am free from illnesses. Even christians suffer terrible diseases sometimes. That's a fact. God helps us through them if we draw near to Him with these things, but I do not believe that we are guaranteed perfect health.

    Aside from that detail, thanks for your post. I agree with it.
  5. Amen x 10!:)
  6. Anytime my friend.:) You have a heart for Christ and that is a real blessing to me!
  7. Amen Brother Mike . That is the most important key to our salvation. because there are those who think once they are saved , they can do anything they want and ask for forgiveness ...... NOT
  8. Glory to God- Healing.


    Thank you for your response Brother. I understand where your coming from about The healing issue. It is a topic a lot of denominations stay away from or just pass it off as something that does not happen much today. However, I was surprised that a local Baptist Church had started doing healing lines and anointing people with oil like the book of James. This Church is a stand alone and not subject to a Board or other Larger Churches.
    The Pastor who is almost 70 said that if he see's it in the Word then he has realized all these years that he must change his ways.

    I will re-word it a little different.

    1) our bodies are not our own but belong to God.
    2) we are to be a living sacrifice, and God did not accept things that were sick or with spot or blemish. So, God.........Heal me.
    (I use to remind him of this long ago...)

    3) Our Bodies are not redeemed yet. So, they are subject to sickness and attacks of the devil.

    However, the question is............ Is it the Will of God that we be healed?

    I could type forever about this subject, but lets look at what disobedience to God's Word Brings and What Jesus did.

    Deu 28:15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

    Deu 28:61
    Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.

    Deuteronomy gives a long list of things that can happen when we do not obey God. That's the Old law, but now the royal law of love covers the the law and the prophets.
    Mat 5:17, Matt 7:12, Matt 22:40

    Now Deu 28:61 tells us that every single sickness that is in the earth today is under that curse for breaking the Law. Sickness was never ment to refine you, build character, or get you closer to God. If you read the whole chapter of Deuteronomy 28 you will see several times that the curse was meant to do just one thing. until thou be destroyed.

    Sickness, mold, scabes, no rain for crops, floods for crops, Adultery, ETC were concequences for disobedience to the Word of God.
    All sin leads to death!!!!! (James 1:5)
    Just like was mentioned in Deut 28 or until your destoryed.
    Some like to say this is just spiritual death, but the effects of walking out of love or disobedience brings stuff in your life God never intended for you to go though. The effects will show up a lot faster than waiting around for spiritual death, Satan will see to that because you gave him place.

    Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs (Hebrew for sickness, weakness, disease), and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
    Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement (Hebrew correction, punishment, discipline) of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

    Jesus took that punishment we deserved for disobedience to God!!!!

    Well, thats just spiritual healing?
    Thats not what the Bible said.

    Mat 8:16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
    Mat 8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

    Gal 3:13
    Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

    So, this is just a few out of many scriptures, Healing does not just come on you out of the Blue and is not always instant. We have a part to play.
    We were saved by grace THROUGH faith. (Eph 2:8)
    Well, to get anything else from God it's going to take faith and trusting and believeing what God said.
    Someone that Really believes that they are healed as Jesus paid for that is not going to act on or confess anything different. They will be in total agreement with God. This kind of faith does not come overnight but takes spending time in the Word and prayer asking God for a revelation on this.
    we have years of broke and sick instilled in us, so it may take some time to get the junk out.

    Believe the Word!!!! Never question just act on What God said. It's his Job to perfom the Word.

    Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

    We all believe this............................ but the next two scriptures some denominations are not so sure about.

    Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

    Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Notice that Jesus said they SHALL recover? Notice that it did not say instant? (Though I have seen instant healing before.)

    Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
    Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

    Here we see that Word Shall again. Shall is a very strong word. It means that it would be impossible for God's Word to fail. It also said the Lord SHALL raise him up. That does not mean instant, but could means weeks or months of recovery, but the result will be totally healed.

    Do all get healed? No.
    Is everyone getting saved? No.

    But as a Child of God you have a right to decide to fear not and believe only what God had said, and dispite what has happened to others that prayed and prayed you will always get the victory if you refuse to let go and give up. It is impossible for God's Word to fail those that will just believe as all things are possible.

    Jesus Is Lord.

  9. God heals some to His glory.
    God walks some through their trial and is glorified in their life.
    God takes His redeemed home to be with Him. This is the ultimate healing as we are freed from all the bondage and heartache of this world.
    Anyone of these brings glory to His Name. Why one and not the other? Well for one thing we live in a cursed earth and our bodies bear the brunt of this as is evidenced by sickness, disease and death. We will not be totally free from this until we see the new heaven and the new earth.
    We receive a new spirit when we are born again.
    We receive a new incorruptible body at the resurrection.
    Our souls are made new as we receive revelation knowledge in His Word by the Spirit of God.
    I have learned (and am still learning) to trust Him no matter what direction life takes. Ultimately I pray His will be done.
  10. Amen and amen my son ..... A new incorruptable Body...... Hallelujah !!!!
  11. New Body!!! yea!!!

    Ok, Boanerges and Dusty......................

    Now the question...............

    If God has a sense of humor.........

    And I was a large man...... (Fat, big as a house, hippo size.)

    Would my new body, (Being the old one resurrected from the grave)

    Be as big as a house??

    Just a thought, to get on Slime fast quick......... just in case.

    After all, I don't want to be told that they don't have a white robe in my size.

    Jesus Is Lord.
  12. Hmm, Mike, this all sounds very weighty, but I don't think it's the truth. Sure, God can heal and does heal. But I think sometimes He wants us to go through illness. Eventually we all have to die once, and that is not like a clock that suddenly stops ticking. Usually people die through an illness. My mother had breast cancer, an old woman in our bible study died from lung cancer. I refuse to think that these people just didn't have enough faith.

    I think the term healing, in the biblical sense, can have different meanings. Sometimes, yes, it means that someone is truly healed completely of an illness. But sometimes it may also mean that someone is spiritually healed while their bodies are still sick. For example, when Isaiah states that through Jesus' stripes we are healed, I believe this is something spiritual - the sickness of sin and enmity with God, in our souls, is healed.

    And for me, I have schizophrenia for many years now. God helps me with it very very much, He is always there for me. I have had visions, I have had God come to me. But does God remove the illness? No. I have to take the medicines, and once when I was on a certain trip and wanted to do only with God and without the medicines, I got seriously ill again. I even heard a voice that chastized me for being too proud to take my medicine.

    Dear Mike, I think you might be stuck in thinking that every illness is in truth a punishment from God, and that a christian must work against that in faith until the curse is lifted because you're such a good christian now who is entitled to permanent health and well being. Well, I think this is very hazardous thinking. When someone dies from cancer, did he just not have enough faith? When I contract the flu, have I not insisted enough on my christian rights?

    I view illnesses as a part of life. Yes, I pray that God would help me through them. I am thankful for every good medical help that He has given to mankind to work against diseases. But basically, I actually believe it is really wrong to think that now as we're christians we have a 100% guarantee that as long as we keep having faith we will always have perfect health. In the truth this actually translates as an unbelievable arrogance. We get illnesses to know that we need God, just like it is the case with all other sufferings. That's a bitter pill, to be sure, but it's effective in treating the selfishness in our souls. For example, I don't know if I would have really sought for God if I hadn't had the schizophrenia. If anything had always been easy and simple I would have just continued to enjoy the pleasures of life.

    I believe it is God's will that we sometimes suffer an illness. God cuts wounds and heals them. And to be a christian includes suffering. What we really need to learn is to suffer like Jesus suffered, without rebelling, without great impatience, without breeding hatred for what we must go through.

    Some years ago I had a wonderful, strengthening dream. And after I woke up there was someone with me who said that I had received that dream because I had shown that I was capable of suffering. To suffer doesn't mean to fight and to struggle badly and to despair. It means to accept your problems, many of them anyway, and rather than to hate them and to only be able to live without any pain, they mean for us to suffer meekly trusting in God to accompany you in love, mercy and tenderness.

    Look at old people. There are those who start to fear once they get feeble and ill, and others patiently bear it and take this bitter cup from the hands of the Father. Yes, we may always hope for healing, and we should pray for it so that God has a good opportunity to give us the gift of recovery and to glorify Himself as our healer. But more important than any of God's gifts is the fact that He loves us and has utterly defeated death on our behalf - so that we have God and that our destiny is just so good.
  13. I am not to skinny my own self!:D

    We know to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (in spirit) and we will be known even as we know each other. Will God give us a tummy tuck? Who can say.
  14. Can anyone answer these questions?
    If God used the Apostle Paul to heal sick folks and even raise the dead why did he have to leave one of his disciples sick in Miletum?

    2Ti 4:20 Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.

    Why could Elisha's very bones raise the dead when he himself died sick?

    2Ki 13:14 Now Elisha was fallen sick of his sickness whereof he died. And Joash the king of Israel came down unto him, and wept over his face, and said, O my father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof.

    2Ki 13:20 And Elisha died, and they buried him. And the bands of the Moabites invaded the land at the coming in of the year.
    2Ki 13:21 And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.

    Sometimes He heals.
    Sometimes He walks us through our trials (2Co 12:7- 10)
    Sometimes He takes us home (ultimate healing)
  15. Glory to God Brothers!!!!

    WoW !!! lots of different beliefs on healing and bible!!!

    I don't suppose any one read my post on it very carefully:rolleyes:

    As Christians we need scriptures before we just believe what everyone tells us. Scriptures!!!!

    I never said healing is automatic, just like being fully grown and mature in Christ is not automatic.

    The problem is that there is a doctrine that God picks and chooses who gets healed or protected, ETC............

    So, we can walk in the natural and ignore the ministry of Jesus (Head of the Church.) and see all the good Christians that died and all the health issues we have had, then make an assumption based on that.

    Not wanting to debate this as it would make a terrific long post, I'll just examine a few.

    Boanerges gave some scripture. So we will start there. These are common scriptures used to prove it is not God's Will that everyone be healed.

    (2 Tim 4:20) Paul left Trophimus sick!!!

    Paul and the rest of the apostles were not the healer. They were used by God to get people healed, but God was the healer and performed the Word with signs following.

    Mar 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

    There are some doctrines that claim our (Force of Faith) causes things to happen, but no scripture for that. Faith is the ability to believe God past what physical circumstances dictate. Remember Peter walking on water looking at the waves and wind?
    Trophimus was sick, He must not have been feeling well and not all healing is instant!!! I think that is were the confusion comes from.
    Jesus said lay hands on the sick and they shall RECOVER....not instantly healed all the time. Same in James, The Lord shall Raise them up. (James 5:15) It is not spectacular most of the time.
    Faith was always involved though......................Faith comes from hearing the word of God.

    Act 14:9 The same heard Paul speak: who steadfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,
    Act 14:10 Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.

    The apostles did not have special healing powers from God, and God did not favor them anymore than he does you or I. Peter said this at the Gate where the lame man was healed.

    Act 3:12
    And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?

    I am sure Trophimus was fine after he rested.

    In the Old testament there was not much healing, but more of a obey God and sickness won't come type of thing. Jesus came and redeemed us from the Curse or punishment for disobedience to the Word of God. (Gal 3:13)

    Luk 4:27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Elisha the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.

    Jesus healed all that were sick and oppressed of the devil. He has never changed in his Will or power. (Acts 10:38)

    I left you a private e-mail on the others.

    Glory to God Brother......... You don't THINK it's the truth? I gave scripture and could have given lots more. I just want my Brothers and Sisters to Have the victory in something that Jesus Bought and paid for.

    Well, Glory!!! your mom gets to be with Jesus... We will see her soon enough :)

    A lot of times it's not a matter of faith, but what you know to be true. God's people are destroyed for lack of Knowledge (Hose 4:6) The devil does not play fair and will take what he can if you allow it. That's Why in Peter we are told to be diligent against our adversary the Devil that tries to roar like a lion seeking who he may devour. Not everyone can be taken down by him. As for enough faith? The Head of our Church said several times that the persons faith made them whole or he has not seen so great faith. Even Peter walking on the Water and begin to sink Jesus told him he had little faith
    I never said these things, Jesus did.

    Well, no......... Disobedience or sin produce death, that's scripture and walking in the devils territory (Give no place to the devil.) can cause you to go through things God never intended. God is not punishing anyone today, or judging anyone

    Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

    Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

    As Christians we have to judge ourselves as we have a Lord now, or we are going to be Judged. That does not mean it's over, but we can miss out on some things the Lord had for us.

    Being a good Christian does not insure health, and there is no scripture that supports that. Some of the best Christians die young. Jesus said it was faith that made you whole, not being good. I'll explain an example of using faith in the end of this.

    I would be very careful about DREAMS, Satan can come as an angel of light and if were not strong in the Word, we can be decieved. The thief came to kill and to steal and destroy, not God. (John 10:10) There is not one Scripture that God makes anyone suffer, Jesus never made anyone suffer or even told anyone it was the will of God they suffer. He healed all!!!

    There is no scripture that shows we suffer physically or mentaly for Jesus or God. We were not given the spirit of fear but of peace, power and SOUND MIND.

    1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
    This is as close as your going to get for a scripture, nothing about physical suffering or mental suffering, you have to add that. Lets look a the full Greek.

    1Pe 4:19 Therefore, those who are ill-treated and suffer in accordance with God's will must do right and commit their souls [in charge as a deposit] to the One Who created [them] and will never fail [them].

    We are promised to be mistreated by those that do not like Christians, at times it may not seem fair, but must be strong and keep a good attitude about it.

    Not one scripture for God inflicting pain on his Children. The best case you can make is the book of Job, but God had nothing to do with that also. It would take to long to explain.

    This prophecy was know to be fulfilled because of Physical healing!!! Read above again the scriptures I gave. If God's Word compared it to Physical healing then good enough for me.

    Faith................... Example......... I am sick.......

    First you have what you say.... Mark 11:23
    ...........and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

    Jesus said it, so it's good enough for me.

    Faith agree's with God, and there is more than enough evidence to prove that it is his will that we don't stay sick.
    Faith never accecpts sickness or sides with it. Doing so means your siding with the one that kills, steals and destorys.
    Faith never prays one way then says something else days latter.

    "God please heal me."
    "I will probley have to deal with this the rest of my life."

    Faith comes from the Word of God and produced in your heart. Out of the abundance of you heart your mouth is going to speak. If your filled with fear and no hope of getting well, then that is what your going to speak and nothing changes.
    God can fix something overnight, but it would be better to meditate in the word day and night until the things Jesus said about healing and all the examples of healing in the Word become so strong that you could not believe or accecpt another outcome.

    Could someone convince you that your not going to heaven? NO (Hope not)
    you are saved though grace by faith.

    Healing can be the same way if you will accecpt that God wants you healed just like he wanted you saved.

    I have seen lots of folks get healed, some don't. I have laid hands on people and they have been healed instantly, some we keep bringing them the Word and months latter it dawns on them that they are truly healed.

    Things happen in the realm of the spirit first that effect this physical World. It has to change there first and in your own mind to recieve what God said.

    God's Will to heal............ explains it a lot better than I could here and is free..........

    More Life Now - Service Archives

    I gave scriptural evidence in what I said is correct. If you don't believe me, at least don't discount the scriptures and miss Something that may be important to you or save you life. God puts people in our paths in forums like this, and don't find out latter that you may have missed out.

    Jeus Is Lord.
  16. The most important key to our salvation is the atonemnt Jesus Christ made for our sins. Next, we shall not want. We should share in the sufferings of Christ and remember we are given evry spiritual blessing in Christ. In the old testament, the old covenat people were blessed with physical blessings, he blessed Israel as a nation out of all of the families of the earth. Now, He has granted repentance to the Gentiles as well. When Christ came, everything got shaken up. We're told to lose our lives for Christ, and then we will find them. We're told to sell our posessions and give to the poor, and then we will have treasure in heaven; real treasure. Look at Job, he was sick and lost everything, yet he glorified the Lord. There are sick, poor people in this world who believe the gospel, and give glory to God in the midst of their non-prosperity, and there are believers who have an excess of what they need, and share it with the less fortunate, and God gets glory. We, every one of us, was created for God's glory.

    I hate any false gosple. Jesus Christ came to seek and save the lost, sick, sinners and to heal them by giving them spiritual life. When we get to heaven, He will wipe away every tear. Precious in His sight is the death of his godly ones. What did Jesus say to the rich man who sought to bulid bigger barns for his grain? "You fool! This very night your soul is demanded of you!" Luke 12:20-21 He who is rich towards himeslef and not God may very well call on the name of the Lord in this life, but not in truth or righteousness. One may have the health, wealth and prosperity gospel, and may be one who was 'seeking to save his life.'
  17. Jesus Christ is the key to our salvation
    Are we seeking to save our lives or lose it?
    Many are preaching the opposite of what Christ taught. What will He say to those people? Luke 12:20-21
    Our kingdom is not here, is it?
    Look to Christ
    Let's bless those in need and seek their prosperity, not our own

    Jesus came to find the lost, sick, sinner; to heal them spiritually and give them eternal life. One day He will wipe away every tear. Remember, are given every spiritual blessing in Christ.

  18. Least in the Kingdom!!

    Brother, nobody said that you would miss an opportunity to suffer for being a Christian. I was fired twice because I just could not stop talking about how wonder Jesus Is.

    Now lets go preach the Word of God in a Eastern Country, Lets say Iran.......
    I bet we could get some good sufferings there.

    Your looking at a time and comparing us to the apostles that were hated by those that were suppose to love God. They endured some heavy stuff.

    I am not going to lay around in bed, hurt and call it suffer for Christ (The anointing in Greek) sake.

    I am not real sure your even reading the scriptures I gave as you keep going on about what you believe and not what the Word says.

    We loose our lives in him as his will now must become our will or at best be obedient to the Word of God. If he tells us to go preach in Iraq, then bless God it's off to Iraq and leave everything behind. This has nothing to do with becoming well when sick or being prosperous. Our life is no longer our own.

    The Kingdom of God is here, don't confuse it with The Kingdom of Heaven which is a place the other being the operation of that place.

    The Kingdom is God is here and inside you. If you want to talk about our spiritual stance we are seated in heavenly places with Christ Jesus and have been delivered from the powers of darkness being translated into the Kingdom of God's dear son. We have been blessed with all spiritual blessing!!

    Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

    That's already done, and also in this life and things that pertain to life.

    2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

    Where is that scripture? Most of the examples were physical healing and he has not changed. We know being born again, we have eternal life in God.

    We were talking about healing, so wanting to be healed is not good? Have you ever been to the Doctor trying to get well of something?
    There are people today that say it is not the Will of God to heal everyone, yet they themselves go to the doctor with out a thought to the Will of God. What if God wanted them sick? To suffer for him? Hypocrites.............!!!

    I suppose you missed the part about him wanting to spend it on himself without a thought to others.
    God gives wealth and adds no sorrow to it. Being wealthy is not the issue, but is the Kingdom of God first?
    You would be surprised that the people that preach against healing, and prosperity do not put God first with their money!!!
    When I get paid I set aside a tenth then ask God if He needs more. More than once He has asked me to give everything I had stored up with no way to pay the bills or keep the lights on. No big deal, as I am in a place to hear him and obey, knowing that He will provided everything I need when the bills come due. It's called faith!!! Now what is your first thought when you get money? Is it God? or is it your needs?

    Sick and broke Christians are not much help in the Kingdom of God. Some are just selfishly waiting around to get to heaven.

    I suppose you missed all the complaining he did?
    Job only talked about his own righteousness.
    Job never asked God for help, but sat there wondering why God would do that to him.

    Your not looking at scriptures, your not explaining the scriptures I gave. You quote things that are not scripture.
    I would re-examine everything again. I use to believe like you do, but once I got in a place (Self-inflicted) where I could spend hours a day in the Word, I noticed what I believed and was taught was not lining up with God's Word. There is nothing else to say about this.....

    Jesus Is Lord.
  19. I wasn't posting to harp at you Mike, and I agree with most of what you said. I'm just saying there are sick, poor, starving people in this world, and we should concentrate more on others need than our own wants. Sure, I go to the doctor, and I thank God he gave us doctors. Yet I will not tell a poor, sick, believer that he's broke and suffering because he doesn't have enough faith. Look at David - he prayed all night that his child wouldn't die, yet he was to die. Paul even said they were the dregs, they were looking for someone to share some food. I don't think Paul, who prayed three times the thorn in the flesh would leave, and God told him 'My grace is sufficient,' would have said it wasn't God's will for him to receive the thorn in the flesh.
  20. Isaiah 53:5 Bible Commentary
    we live in a fallen world, where we shold do everything to Love the Lord our God and our felow man, all to the glory of God. And yes, the evil one is the ruler of the world and we are told 'woe to you of earth and sea.' Things will proceed to get worse.

    "For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time." Rev. 12:12

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