1. Hello Guest! You are browsing the forums as a guest; you will have limited permissions as a guest so we advise registering to enjoy the forums fully. Remember: we are a Christian ONLY site - any user who is not Christian will not be approved. Blessings, Christian Forum Site Staff
    Dismiss Notice

Tithing Is Not A New Testament Principle

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Alan Walton, Jul 28, 2012.

  1. Christians are plagued by the torrents of appeal from churches for money. Thrown into these appeals is the standard request to pay your tithes and offerings. Let me say from the very beginning that there is a distinct difference between giving to God and giving to "the church". Giving to God is a scriptural concept (Matt 22:21); Giving to "the church" could just be an emotional response to a well-orchestrated man-made appeal which is out of God's Will and God's Word. So it is important for us to study God's Word so that we are able to discern whether funds being solicited in a particular church are based on sound New Testament Scriptural principles. Prayer is the other means of helping to discern God's Will in a particular area of financial need (of such a church).
  2. Alan,
    You have missed the mark my friend and hopefully, brother. The Church s not the church, Te church is where we gather the Church together. The Church is you, Major, Calvin, myself and many others. I will state, right here, that you should not give a single penny but folks like Major and myself will never cease to give, n0or should we.

    You seem to be trapped into one of the popular lies about the division of the Old and the New Testaments when the truth is that there is no division, just distinction. You should not give until you can enjoy doing so because the LORD blesses the Cheerful Giver and not the begrudging heart. My prayer for you is that you will take up a copy of the Nave's Topical and do some o the studies on this.

    May God bless you and welcome.
    Mercedes Benz E Class and Major say Amen and like this.
  3. Sorry my friend, but I have not missed the mark at all...I have just merely stated a biblical truth, New Testament believers are NEVER once instructed to tithe, either by Jesus or the apostles. Jesus rebuked pharisees (who were still living under the law) for tithing even on the herbs in their garden, yet ignoring the weightier parts of the LAW. He was speaking to people under the LAW who were not keeping the more important parts of the LAW (and tithing wasn't one of them). After Christ's death, once the New Testament church was borne, tithing is never taught. In fact, of all the essentials sent to the gentiles by the apostolic council in Jerusalem, tithing is never mentioned. When Paul speaks of money in his letters, he only speaks of generous giving with joy. The New Testament principle is generous stewardship and giving with joy as the Lord directs our hearts! The New Testament standard is higher, because now we are not our own, we were bought with a price, and everything we have belongs to Him! Which means, if He directs us to give EVERYTHING, or NOTHING, as stewards we are called to obey. Our giving is now out of relationship, not under law. We are no longer yoked under the law of tithing! He who the son has set free is free indeed. Whatever is given to "the Church" should also be going to help the poor and those in need in the community, not to the building up of some Preachers ministry or for some "Televangelist" to live lavish lifestyles.
    He is able likes this.
    Giving is proportionate to the degree that God blesses a person without an obligatory figure being mentioned.
    1 Cor 16:1-2
    Giving is from the heart.....
    In fact giving should be more appropriately termed free will offerings in the context of the New Testament Church for Paul commanded us to give as we purpose in our heart. If the amount is a fixed one, there will be no need to purpose in one's heart anymore!!
    2 Cor 9:7
  5. Thank you Alan. I agree.
  6. Alan,
    Just as I alluded in my first post, you have just missed the mark. There no such thing as a New Testament Christian. The entirety of the New quotes and references the Bible Jesus taught from. Now, while what you have posted is relevant, it is impossible to see it properly without the light of all scripture shinning on it.
    Major likes this.
  7. It amazes me how many think they are still under the OT law and then they CHANGE the law to suit their circumstances.

    NO ONE, absolutely NO ONE pays the Biblical tithe today.

    Leviticus 27:30-33 defines this tithe as a tenth of crops and animals in herds and flocks.
    Numbers 18 gives the ordinances, or instructions, for this tithe, and commands this tithe be taken to the Levites.
    Purpose of this tithe: to support the Levitical Priesthood.

    Deuteronomy 14:22-27: aka The Festival Tithe - a tenth of crops, plus add to that the firstborn animals, and take to the yearly feasts.
    Purpose of this tithe: “that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always”

    Deuteronomy 14:28-29: aka The Three-Year Tithe aka The Poor Tithe - a tenth of crops, kept at home, and invite the Levites, widows, orphans, stranger to eat.
    Purpose of this tithe: to feed the poor.

    The ONLY people in the Old Testament that were commanded to tithe were those who INHERITED THE PROMISED LAND WITH EVERYTHING ON IT. They got the land, house, animals, crops, etc. ALL FREE AND CLEAR. No mortgage payment or rent to pay. And THEY were commanded to tithe on the crops and animals and take it to the Levites who INHERITED the tithe INSTEAD OF the promised land with everything on it. No one else tithed. Wage earners did not tithe. Jesus did not tithe as a carpenter. Paul did not tithe as a tent maker. Peter did not tithe as a fisherman.

    When God gave the Israelites the promised land, He RESERVED, for Himself, a tenth of the crops and every tenth animal. They NEVER did belong to the Israelites. In other words, the tithe was from God's increase of FOOD, not from man's income. It was a way to distribute FOOD to the Levites and priests who did NOT inherit any land.

    No one, not even the farmers, tithed on their income.

    The farmers made their income by SELLING and/or barter-exchanging their crops and animals but did NOT tithe on that income.

    Today, ALL born-again believers are priests. ALL of us are called to be deciples of the Lord. No one of us is greater than another. Our bodies are the Temple where the Spirit dwells. According to the scriptures, priests do not tithe.

    In two places, we are told that tithing ended.

    Malachi 3:7 (KJV) “Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ORDINANCES, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?”

    Colossians 2:14 (KJV) “Blotting out the handwriting of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;”

    This is repeated in Hebrews 7:5,12,18 where we are told the tithe was disannulled.

    Regardless whether you believe tithing is still required today or not, the tithes (3 of them) commanded by God NEVER consisted of money (even though the Temple Tax had to be paid with money), it NEVER came from anyone's income, but ALWAYS came from God's miraculous increase of food from crops and animals. NOTHING ELSE.
    He is able and Kurt75 say Amen and like this.
  8. Where have I said anything about somebody being a New Testament Christian?? ...I think you are reading more into my post than what I actually said...
  9. I agree with all the posts above and don't see any conflict.

    We only need one scripture to explain tithing, namely Romans 2:15. If we are told to give a fixed percentage and God will bless and not curse us, it makes the condition / willingness / desire of our hearts to obey irrelevant. But lets not throw tithing out completely for every law written had purpose and pleased God. It is clear that God wanted those in full time ministry to be supported and on a regular basis. Tithing was 11 Jewish tribes supporting 1. Hence Christians should be asked to support fellow Christians in full time ministry and 10% is a fair / affordable percentage to give.
    Kurt75, Major and dario68w says Amen and like this.
  10. Well said KingJ.
  11. Actions speak louder than words. Tithing should be between the individual and God. Although I am considered to be living on the poverty line, I never go without needing anything. Years ago I handed all finances etc over to GOd, for an illustration I did a MAry on Jesus at the wedding feast, thats the time when he turned water in to wine in case you wondering, Mary dumped all problems on Jesus and left them with him and walked away content it was as good as solved.

    Part of this dumping everything financial on The Lord was my commitment to tithe, give back what God has given me. This tithing is not just dumping a set amount of money in the collection each week, but in form of other means, such as providing free services and work for Christians and organisations.

    God also blesses me continually with supplying me with more food than I need, prior to tithing and handing over everything, I struggled to keep just one freezer draw full, now I struggle to find space. I wont go into the stories here, but I always get to the shop at right time for the right things and walk away with say £60 worth of food having paid less than £10 for it all.

    Its also this time I think of others , or I am reminded to, I find myself buying far more than I need, but the reasons are clear, I give this extra away, so that in a way is tithing as well, and if anything more like the principles of tithing by handing over the crops! Again I have many stories of where I have distributed food, I often find myself taking bags of food to church, think who do I give this to, I am then shown or prompted to hand stuff over and they have been amazed as it is often what they need as well or simply helps them out of a hole or difficult situation.

    I tithe in these ways as I want to do it, as Th1Bill says The Lord loves a cheerful giver, I do this because I want to out of love and kindness, not as a reward for my own gain or self esteem. I know people who say" I have tithed but God dosnt reward me"..> WRONG. that is not why we tithe, if you go into the whole tithe and giving with an attitude or heart of personal gain and reward God sees through this immediately and will not indulge your selfish nature.

    IF you dont not want to tithe or give something back to God, then so be it, but you may find God taking your well paid job and all your expensive toys away from you to remind you or teach you a few things such as genuine needs and who is ultimately responsible for your provision. There are numerous references to how the poor and meek are more blessed than the rich. but thats another sermon and study. I hope you understand where I am coming from.
    Major likes this.
  12. 1 Corth. 16:2.............
    You are correct that Paul says nothing here about "tithes and Offerings".
    They were to put aside their offerings as God had blessed them.

    I had a father who would tithe (10%) of his income or die trying. It was so important to him that even if he was sick and could not get to church to give his offering, he would call the pastor or a deacon to come by his house to get his tithe (10%).

    Now, as the treasurer of his church, he came across individuals who at certain times needed some financial help. Maybe it was money for food, or a doctor visit or needed medication. He did not tell the church, he simple gave the person money himself.

    Now he had already given 10% to the church, and the church was always available to help out those same people financialy. BUT MY FATHER GAVE MORE THAN 10% as he gave to those who neede it without involving the church.

    That is what Christian giving is all about.

    It is absolutly correct that we do not live under the Law, BUT giving the tithe (10%) was practiced long before the Law was instigated.

    Genesis 14:20...............
    "Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything."

    How did he know to give 10% BEFORE the Law was in effect. CLEARLT he had a revelation from the Lord!!!

    This "tithe" is not limited to income, but clearly includes a tenth of all of Abram's possessions.

    A similar tithe is seen with Jacob, in Genesis 28:10-22, where Jacob pledges that if God blesses him, he would give a tenth back to God. In both of these instances, the tithe is made before the law to tithe is given, but this offering is made in response to blessing, out of thanksgiving.

    The 1st reading of the Law on thithing is in Levitcus 27:30-32..........
    "And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord’s. It is holy to the Lord. If a man wants at all to redeem any of his tithes, he shall add one-fifth to it. And concerning the tithe of the herd or the flock, of whatever passes under the rod, the tenth one shall be holy to the Lord. He shall not inquire whether it is good or bad, nor shall he exchange it; and if he exchanges it at all, then both it and the one exchanged for it shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.’”

    Now, do we forget this verse from the Scriptures....................................
    Matthew 5:17 says....
    "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them".
    Some in the Christian church have taken the 10 percent figure from the Old Testament tithe and applied it as a “recommended minimum” for Christians in their giving. The New Testament talks about the importance and benefits of giving. We are to give as we are able and then we can give MORE THAN 10% IF WE SO CHOOSE and less than that if we are not able to do so and we can do that without guilt . Sometimes that means giving more than 10 percent; sometimes that may mean giving less. It all depends on the ability of the Christian and the needs of the church, as God bless each person.
    He is able likes this.
  13. @Alan,

    Let’s look closely at Abram’s tithe. First, the goods that Abram gave the tenth from didn’t even belong to Abram:

    Genesis 14:21 (KJV) - And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself.

    Notice in verse 21 the king of Sodom didn’t ask Abram if he would give back to him the people, but rather said GIVE ME the people and keep the goods for yourself. The way that is worded indicates that the king of Sodom was claiming that the people and the goods belonged to him, but he offered the goods to Abram.

    It would normally have been the custom that the victor owns the spoils, but normally the spoils would have belonged to the enemy. In this case, Abram was RECOVERING goods belonging to the King of Sodom.

    NOTE: The king of Sodom had an original right both to the persons and to the goods, and it would bear a debate whether Abram’s acquired right by rescue would supersede his title and extinguish it; but, to prevent all quarrels, the king of Sodom makes this fair proposal (v. 21).
    --Should the Church Teach Tithing by Dr. Russell Earl Kelly, pages 24-25

    Genesis 14:22-24 (KJV)
    22And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,
    23That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:
    24Save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men which went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their portion.

    Notice in verses 23 and 24 Abram also acknowledges that the goods belonged to the king of Sodom. But the king of Sodam offered that Abram could keep the goods for himself. Abram declined the offer. He didn’t want man to take credit for his wealth. By not accepting any of the goods for himself, Abram was putting all his faith in God to provide for him rather than man.

    Therefore, it is clear that both the king of Sodom and Abram acknowledged that the spoils of war did NOT belong to Abram, yet he gave a tenth of the spoils to King Melchizedek. This would seem that Abram did something wrong, if not even illegal, but Biblical historians agree that it was custom in Abram's day to give the king a tenth of the war spoils. Had Abram not given the tenth, he would have gone against custom.

    Conclusion: Abram did NOT give a tenth of his income, or his wealth. Abram gave a tenth of the spoils of war that didn’t belong to him and declined to keep the goods offered to him. That is NOT an example of tithing for Christians to follow today. By declining to keep any of the goods for himself, Abram showed his faith that God would provide. That is the example of faith that Christians should be following. Furthermore, the law did NOT require a tenth of war spoils to be given, so to say that tithing was before the law and then in the law is not true. What Abram did was NOT even codified into the later law.
    th1bill likes this.
  14. I believe you are referring to the Code of Hammurabi of that day. Seems to me that this was a temptation to Abram.

    Remembering that when Abram started out, he made a covenant with God maybe saying something like...."Oh God, I am not entering this war to make money but to recover my nephew Lot, and that is what God allowed him to do.
  15. Malachi says that tithing is a thing of faith. If you give He will return it. That's God just daring you to test Him.

    But to say that there is no separation in the old and new sure does pass over a lot.
    Just a few thoughts.

    If you are led by the Spirit you aren't under the law. That didn't happen in the old.

    Christ's priesthood is founded on the priesthood of Melchizedek. When Mel was High Priest there was no Jews, much less Gentiles. And, yet, they tithed to God still. At least Abe did.

    But after Mel you had the jews, and the levitical priesthood. That's certainly a difference maker. Big Change.

    But Christ's priesthood takes us back to melchizedeks priesthood according to Psalms and Hebrews. That means before the law. So the LAW of the Levites wouldn't have anything in common with the priesthood of the Christ, who has a priesthood after the order of Mel's who was before the jews.

    Also, the Jews didn't apply all the law to gentiles. Nor did the council of Jerusalem think they needed to.

    There are some distinctive differences. But, I'll admit, the plan is one plan from beginning to end. But there are segments to the plan. Steps it progresses through.
  16. Xian,

    Malachi says that tithing is a thing of faith. Where does Malachi say that tithing is a thing of faith?

    If you give He will return it. That isn't what Malachi says. Malachi says you follow God's ORDINANCES, the NATION will be blessed. If you don't, the NATION will be cursed. It is a nation thing, not an individual thing. Furthermore, Malachi is address to the Levitical priesthood, NOT the Christian Church. It doesn't apply to us.

    Christ's priesthood is founded on the priesthood of Melchizedek. When Mel was High Priest there was no Jews, much less Gentiles. And, yet, they tithed to God still. At least Abe did. Not correct. Christ's priesthood comes after the order of Melchizedek. Since Hebrews 7:18 says the Levitical priesthood was DISANNULLED, which means it is treated as though it never were, the next priesthood to follow, in order, is that of Christ. There is nothing that says they tithed TO GOD, or that Abram tithed TO GOD. To the contrary. It was Abram tithed to Melchizedek.
  17. Malachai 3:8-12ish. God offers if you bring I will give return. If you don't think doing that and trusting him to do as he says is an act of faith, as it was for abe, gideon, the...... I got njttin to say. I can't see how accepting His challenge would be anything but faith. I'm sorry if you are looking for those exact word and I gave a contextual parapnhrase, not a quote.

    You comment o hebrews 7:18, is humorous in that it doesn't corroborate with psalms 110 at all. Its not very consistent to consider the after as a chronological thing, when Christ is compared to mel by paul, in a very personal non chronological way.

    An example, without father/lineage, forever..... the comparison is to the type of priesthood not the when of it. You are certainly free to state whatever you wish, but in context that's a reach from my perspective. Of course, that doesn't make me right.....
  18. @Xian,

    Psalm 110:4 (KJV) The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

    Hebrews 7:11 (KJV) If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
  19. Really? You are just going to keep repeating the same thing and ignore the parts I bring up that you don't like? Why would I even respond to that?
  20. On, oj, I will bite.... do a word study, you will find your word, after, isn't chronological at all. Most translations will make it clear. You were made after God's image. Its more than chronology. This is easily accessed to verify if you are willing to do the study. If you could use help I will be glad to.

Share This Page