Hmmm...interesting indeed. I have heard that Ishtar is where we get "Easter" and that it actually a pagan holiday we made our own--
Obviously I know why we celebrate Easter <3
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Obviously I know why we celebrate Easter <3
I always thought God knew it would happen since He is all-knowing. He exists outside of time, doesn't He?
I know that there isn't scripture that states this but it seems obvious to me.
Can you explain more?? I don't see how God couldn't have known.
Ps Kenneth copeland is a false teacher in my book.
MichaelH
Inactive
How deep you want to get into that Sister?
Do you have time to read a bit?
You really want to understand what God knows and how he knows?
I'll present a simple argument without tons of scriptures. There are two schools of Thought and all thoughts in between.
Election (Calvinism) V.S Foreknowledge (Arminism)
We also have everything from both ends of the spectrum. A mixture if you will.
Let's start with Election. God picks and chooses who gets saved and who does not. Who gets healed, who does not get healed. Who roast in hell, and who does not. God speaks and everything must follow that course depending on what God wanted.
Election removes the Will of man. It also removes the concept of faith. Having faith you will get healed when God already has decided you won't get healed is not going to help you. Wanting to get saved, when God picked that you must roast in hell is not going to help you. Faith is never in the equation because it's God who picks.
Everything Works out for the good will and purpose of God. The death of loved ones, the ones in heaven, the ones in hell. God is in control.
Of course there are watered down versions of this but that is the hard core end of the spectrum.
Foreknowledge:
Man has a free will, but God knows how it ends up anyway. So God already knew Adam would sin so planned for Jesus to come before the foundation of the World. It's not that God made or planned Adam to sin, but God knew Adam would eventually eat the fruit of that tree and man would fall.
You can choose to read your bible, go to church, Obey God's plan by your choice, but God knows in the end you will end up miserable and in hell. God did not plan it that way, as you had free choice but He knew how it was going to end regardless.
God lives outside of time and see's the end and sees the beginning.
So Allie what makes more sense? Does God declare everything from the end to the beginning? Including each single persons life. Does God just declare things concerning how all creation is going to go, but for each single person just knows the end from the beginning?
Is God just a big fortune teller or is God in control of it all, even every single life?
Foreknowledge Allie does not make any sense at all. Because any Foreknowledge boils right back to becoming Election.
Zec_12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
If God with some foreknowledge creates a man, knows that man will Go to hell. Then God creates a man with knowledge of the man roasting in hell forever.
Knowledge about what one plans is not foreknowledge but it's causing or election.
You can say I am getting a glass of water. However, you get up to get that glass of water. It's not foreknowledge it's a causative.
I can say with foreknowledge that I will run out of gas before going to Work. Sure enough, I run out of gas before getting to work. I based it on the amount of Gas showing on my dash board.
Did I have great foreknowledge? Or was I stupid for not stopping to get gas?
The only way for Foreknowledge to work is for God to just close his eyes and randomly make everyone, drop them on the planet then use some fortune telling ability to just suddenly know someday what each man is going to end up doing.
This means nobody is fearfully and wonderfully made with a plan or thought on God's part. He is like a factory that puts out cars with no idea where those cars are going to end up until later.
Psa_139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
Jer_1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
This is deep, so I'll stop here to let you think about this. Foreknowledge makes zero sense and makes God some fortune teller with no clue or plan when creating man. Scripture says different.
So it must be election.
Or is it?
Is this statement from God Foreknowledge or Election or neither? (I have tons more)
God said He will know once he goes down to personally check it out.
And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
(Gen 18:20-21)
BBE
Gen 18:21 I will go down now, and see if their acts are as bad as they seem from the outcry which has come to me; and if they are not, I will see.
Kenneth Copeland:
If you check my post, You will find I sound a whole lot like Brother Copeland. Not sure what you don't like about him or what He has taught that is in error. With what I learned from him way back, it saved my son.
Be blessed Allie.
Strangely enough 
I kinda go with MichaelH on this one but perhaps not for the same reason. I think God gave us free will and He is not going to revoke it even if many are lost. There is what I call wiggle room, for those who don't know the truth now - will, in the end, choose what is in their best interests, once they know the truth. We as Christians, just have to keep planting seeds and hope they catch.
I kinda go with MichaelH on this one but perhaps not for the same reason. I think God gave us free will and He is not going to revoke it even if many are lost. There is what I call wiggle room, for those who don't know the truth now - will, in the end, choose what is in their best interests, once they know the truth. We as Christians, just have to keep planting seeds and hope they catch.
MichaelH
Inactive
Strangely enough
Agree with me on this is just going to make religious folk mad at you. However, people don't picture God the way God defined himself in the Word. It's a picture on what a god should be in the mind of a person. Often times God should think like the person who pictures who they think God is.
God hates this and will roast them in hell they say. A person who judges a lot will naturally think God is the same way.
Some use science fiction and say God lives outside of time.
However, God gave us something called scriptures and common sense. Both go a long way.
Then this will blow your mind, the Lord says:
Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].
There are no surprises with God. If the tree of the knowledge of good and evil didn't exist how can there be a choice? God knows the outcome of everything because He's outside of time. His name translated Jehovah in Hebrew simply means I exist.
Exodus 3:14 (KJV) And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].
There are no surprises with God. If the tree of the knowledge of good and evil didn't exist how can there be a choice? God knows the outcome of everything because He's outside of time. His name translated Jehovah in Hebrew simply means I exist.
Exodus 3:14 (KJV) And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
I started to say something but I do not have the words for it. I believe God has allowed what I call wiggle room for people to turn back towards Him. I do think that linear time was created for man and that God and the spirit realm are outside it. We cannot possibly comprehend what God "knows" , for one thing because we are inside the time bubble, and for another, no human, no demon, or angel can multitask the levels and intricacies. And further still, we humans are, even believers, blinded by having to see through evil. I agree with MichaelH that God's plan is not set up for failure but I think we are fooling ourselves if we think we know how that plan will unfold, other than the broadest of outlines. All I know is Christ is the way out of this mess - the only way.
MichaelH
Inactive
There is Zero Scripture that says God is outside of time. Lives in some time bubble or even knows what each of us will be doing 5 years from now. ZERO scripture.............
There is scripture though that says God is Love. That love (Eph 3:19) Passes all understanding. Something we are told we will never fully grasp, at least on earth.
Now, it's not that God loves, but is Love and is light and truth. By nature that is what God is.
For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
(Jer 29:11)
Love designs every single person to succeed. God has no evil thoughts about anyone. So God would not have a foreknowledge of a person not making it because Love always tries to turn a person around so they do make it.
Jesus said:
He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.
(Luk 13:6-9)
Jesus did not say go ahead and chop down the tree because He had foreknowledge the tree would not make it. He said give the tree extra to help it grow (Dung) Then if not, chop it down.
Lam 3:33 For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.
God has to judge though when men don't come in line. It's not his will, but righteous judgement has to take place, despite what God really wanted to do.
He does not plan, or want to afflict willingly.
What Does God know?
He knows us by our past actions and condition of our hearts. This is why it is so important to do what He says do.
When God was dealing with Abraham, he built a relationship with him. God tested Abraham, to go sacrifice Issac.
Gen 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
When did God know? When Abraham was about to kill his son. Not my words, God said this.
1Sa 15:11 It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night.
The Word God used "Repent" means a bit different here in Hebrew. It means to breath deeply and sigh. It's a sorrow, a disappointment. It really Bothered God that Saul would not obey him. This was not election or Foreknowledge it was God responding to Saul's actions.
I have about 20 more of these. It's something I have studied for the last 10 years or so when the Lord first spoke to me about this.
There is a path God has designed and made for each of us. On that path everything is planed to perfection. If we stay on that path, then God knows everything to come our way. The path of righteousness, the race, the plan of God for our lives.
If we get off that path, do our own thing, then we are on the path of darkness, and instead of everything laid out, God spends wasted years delivering us from one mess to the next. We go through things God never planed for us, bad things.
If anyone needs more examples, I have a lot of them. God has shown us exactly how he deals with man, just religion and false doctrine have hid them from us.
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And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
(Gen 6:6)
You would have to be pretty cold of heart and dumb as rocks to think God had elected or knew ahead of time that He would grieve his own heart and have to watch as he drowned his man. Love would never have thought that day would come. This bothered God so much that there is a rainbow in his throne room to give him a constant reminder.
God planned to grieve his own heart? Not my God.
Blessings.
I said we live in the linear time bubble - not God. And we are separate from God. I can't specify the dynamics of creation - or the universe but there is plenty of scripture that shows God's foreknowledge. You try to put your rationale to God, and that is anthropomorphizing Him. I understand that I cannot hope to comprehend Him. He is a loving creator and His plan has not unfolded completely yet. I trust in His planning. I would not if He thought along our human lines. I thank God that it will be He that judges me - not any one or group of humans. We keep saying the Human understanding of "foreknowledge" when I don't think what God does with His understanding is the same. So I can agree with you, that foreknowledge/election is not at work here.
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Your book is exactly correct my dear. He is and you are correct.
As for God being outside of time...........
John 1:1
"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God, the same was in the beginning with God".
No matter how far back we go in time, God is there waiting for us.
I do not know how to say in really nice words that someone is wrong. So I will just say to Mike......You are wrong!
Isa. 46:9-10...........
“Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please”.
What Mike is suggesting here come from the theology and agenda of "Open Theism". There is A significant contingency in Christianity—(open theists)—are currently communicating that God does not have perfect knowledge of the future.
Now I am not going to post the entire Bible verses that speak against such thinking, but I will list some and you can look them up if you so desire to. First, the Bible from beginning to end demonstrates the omniscience of God. In the words of Isaiah, God knows “the end from the beginning” (Isa.46:10).
As such, God’s knowledge is exhaustive, including even those things yet future (cf. Job37:16; Ps.139:1–6;147:5; Heb.4:12–13).
Now THINK about this....... if God’s knowledge of the future is fallible or He does not know what is coming, biblical predictions that depend on human agency might well have turned out wrong. Even Jesus’ predictions in the Olivet Discourse could have failed, thus undermining His claim to deity. God Himself could have failed the biblical test for a prophet (Deut.18:22). Indeed, if God’s knowledge of the future is incomplete, we would be foolish to trust Him to answer our prayers, thus negating the “confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him” (1John5:14–15).
Finally, while open theists suggest that God cannot know the future exhaustively because He changes His plans as a result of what people do, in reality it is not God who changes, but people who change in relationship to God. By way of analogy, if you walk into a headwind, you struggle against the wind; if you make a u–turn on the road, the wind is at your back. It is not the wind that has changed, but you have changed in relationship to the wind. As such, God’s promise to destroy Nineveh was not aborted because He did not know the future but because the Ninevites, who had walked in opposition to God, turned from walking in their wicked ways. Indeed, all of God’s promises to bless or to judge must be understood in light of the condition that God withholds blessing on account of disobedience and withholds judgment on account of repentance (Ezek.18; Jer.18:7–10).
My point was that, until the NT, casting demons out wasn't talked about in scripture. So, was King Saul "oppressed"? What is evil's purpose in possession. In some books oppression is the step before possession. Didn't some of the early Church leadership have some problems with oppression? Or what could be considered that?
Glomung
Account Closed
Silk, you are correct. Oppression is the attempt by the demon to overcome the will of the victim so to be able to affect possession.
No person can be possessed until their will is broken and they have given tacit permission for the demon to enter.
(though some people, such as voodoo and santeria practitioners give that permission freely)
No person can be possessed until their will is broken and they have given tacit permission for the demon to enter.
(though some people, such as voodoo and santeria practitioners give that permission freely)
That is my understanding, too - that evil/demons have to have permission to enter the body for possession and I would guess that they need a portal of some sort to gain entrance to a home. I read Malachi Martin's Hostage to the Devil (1976?) many years ago, along with Peck's book, People of the Lie. Martin's book still stands as the scariest book I ever read - he recounts 5 possessions. None of the people understood what they were actually letting into themselves. One was a priest. I realize Martin is controversial. I have just read a number of books on possession (The Dark Sacrament, Banished, The Demonologist, Devil's Walk, The Day Satan Called, The Possession of Carl Lawson, forgot the title =The Possession of Emily Rose). And I just got Peck's last book, Glimpse of the Devil (Both Martin - who was once a Jesuit priest, and Peck -Christian Psychologist are now deceased). No one seems to know why certain people/children are targetted. And I do think some have gone overboard, seeing demons under sofas, etc. But this subject is chilling.
MichaelH
Inactive
I'll be kind with you Brother. You have gained my respect more than once.
Don't come in saying I am wrong though.
Isa 41:26 Who hath declared from the beginning, that we may know? and beforetime, that we may say, He is righteous? yea, there is none that sheweth, yea, there is none that declareth, yea, there is none that heareth your words.
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Major, Nagad, means to profess out, declare a thing for the future. His console shall stand, that means what He declared will stand.
God is not a fortune teller, God speaks, and it happens.
I already told you, there is zero scripture suggesting what your saying. You don't take one scripture Major and ignore 20 others.
One of your scriptures:
Job 37:16 Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge?
You want 20 of mine that point to exactly what I am trying to tell you? This just tells of God's wisdom. You will have to flounder and find no scripture, I'll bring you many.
It's not that God's knowledge is incomplete, it's God who speaks and the thing becomes. If you take the time to read all my post you would know this. It's not that God is a fortune teller, it's God who declares a thing according to his will and counsel and it stands fast.
Isa 48:5 I have even from the beginning declared it to thee; before it came to pass I shewed it thee: lest thou shouldest say, Mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them
159 verses where God says............ It shall come to pass. Not foreknowledge, but the spoken Word by God.
159 Verses Major of God declaring something that will happen. You need ONE verse that just says God knows the future.
You have mistaken the Eternal Word that can not be changed with some type of fortune telling ability.
You have 159 counter verses? Want me to post them all?
Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
Jos 8:5 And I, and all the people that are with me, will approach unto the city: and it shall come to pass, when they come out against us, as at the first, that we will flee before them,
Here are two of the 159.
God causes and creates by speaking the Word.
it's not God sitting around trying to tell the future with some crystal ball. He declares it and it stands fast.
Major:
Finally, while open theists suggest that God cannot know the future exhaustively because He changes His plans as a result of what people do, in reality it is not God who changes, but people who change in relationship to God.
You got this right, His plan though is always mercy. I already posted the scripture that it's not God's will to afflict the children of men or have to judge them harshly. I gave that already.
God's plan to bring Israel to the promise land. Israel changed that.
God's Plan to make Saul King, Saul changed that.
God's Plan to make Eli's house to be the family of priest. Eli changed that.
God's Plan to bless Adam, Adam changed that.
Do I need to go on?
Psa 135:14 For the LORD will judge his people, and he will repent himself concerning his servants.
Love does not like to judge and have to harshly correct men. God does not plan for it to end badly. Man won't obey God and it ends badly.
God is only thinking good things about us (Jer 29:11) God is not harboring Foreknowledge that we will screw it up. God can help us not screw it up. God is looking at his ability to fix things, not our ability to mess them up badly.
Take my word on this Major, I will run you out of counter scriptures by over 100 of them. YOU HAVE ZERO MAJOR, I already researched this for over 10 years.
Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
Jer 18:8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
Is that scripture Foreknowledge Major? No, God is Love and believes they will change.
Jer 42:10 If ye will still abide in this land, then will I build you, and not pull you down, and I will plant you, and not pluck you up: for I repent me of the evil that I have done unto you.
If God has foreknowledge, then God causes or else God is like a fortune teller who does not know a thing until time goes by. Even Jesus said you can discern the sky when it's about to rain. Does not God's wisdom extend past men?
Before you publicly say I am wrong Major, think. I would not say a thing if I could not back it up. I am just getting started. It bothers me because I do value your Word Knowledge. Others here are so far lacking that I don't try to counter them as it's not worth my time. It would not even be fair and as you told me we need to walk in love.
159 Plus lots more. Start listing your counter scriptures brother, or learn something.
Blessings.
Michael I believe Kenneth copeland is a false teacher whether or not it's on purpose-- I doubt it is--but he teaches word of faith and I disagree with this teaching-- because i believe it increases our power and puts God in our box-- like he's our puppet. Idk-- I've always gotten a bad bad vibe from these preachers. Since I was a new Christian and the only knowledge I has was what God had revealed to me. I prayed early on for Spiritual discernment with the teachers I listened to. Of course I could be wrong: but they (word of faith) preachers seem phony to me.
Thanks major. Yes I've always gotten an "off" feeling from these people--- BEFORE I started researching about them (prosperity teachers)
And the time thing-- well that's just like DUH to me
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