Theorising John 14:6

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by KingJ, Sep 28, 2011.

  1. Hello all

    Ok, so I have been theorising John 14:6 and would really appreciate your input and thoughts.

    "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me"

    Facts:
    - God is just and no respector of persons.
    - Jesus died for all mankind.
    - Nobody comes to God the Father except through Jesus.
    - The Holy Spirit revealed Jesus's true identity to Peter.

    Concluding statements of fact:
    - Nobody will reach judgement day without having had an equal and fair opportunity to accept or reject Jesus.
    - Just as Peter was revealed the truth by The Holy Spirit, likewise all humans will have this moment in time where there spirit will be ready to see Jesus for who He is and what He stands for and then accept or reject Him (equal conditions for all).
    - No matter what you believe (islam, hindu, atheist), your ''equal and fair opportunity'' to accept or reject Jesus is coming. If anything being a faithful God-fearing person will improve your desire to accept Jesus on that day.
    - Cannibals that died on remote islands and never heard the gospel will too receive their ''equal and fair opportunity'' oneday to accept or reject Jesus.
    - You cannot go to hell unless you have rejected Jesus and you cannot reject Jesus unless you have had an equal and fair opportunity to accept Him.
    - The timing of this fair opportunity is irrelevant, it can be on earth, spiritual waiting place or enroute to a waiting place, whats relevant is that God will be blameless on judgement day as you would have been treated eqauly and fairly just as everyone else.
    - No human can truly convert somoene, as only The Holy Spirit / or God can sow the seed of Jesus. Christians can only toil the soil.
    - Babies / retards will also have their equal and fair opportunity, for all mankind is guilty of sin (Perhaps in the millenium of peace?).

    An equal and fair opportunity to accept or reject Jesus entails :

    - You are mentally fit to make the decision
    - You are spiritually aware of the full impact of your decision
    - The Holy Spirit / God sows the seed of Jesus in the moment. (ie, you have a deep spiritual encounter with Jesus, aka God, as Jesus is God in the flesh)

    Common explanations are that God's creation testifies of Him and you will be judged on the light you have received. John 14:6 clearly says Jesus and not ''light you have received'' or wind blowing pretty little leaves.

    The Holy Spirit would have to testify before God of ALL mankind, that have accepted or rejected Jesus.
     
  2. Your quote was...........
    " You cannot go to hell unless you have rejected Jesus and you cannot reject Jesus unless you have had an equal and fair opportunity to accept Him."

    Not quite....every soul in hell today is there by choice.

    Rom. 1:18-
    18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
    19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
    20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
    21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
    22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
    23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
    24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves

    Nature itself reveals that there is a Creator.
     
  3. Hi KJ,

    It is good to ponder and meditate on the things the Lord has declared to be true but it is massively important to remember that at the end of the day if the Lord has NOT actually SAID it, if it is not actually WRITTEN in the Bible it is nothing more than a personal THEORY that may or equally, may not, be true. What is WRITTEN in the Bible is our ONLY authority and guarantee of what is true in such matters.
     
  4. Thanks for responses.

    Major, I am no theologian, but just using common sense, it doesnt make sense to me that anyone be in hell now as the White Throne judgement has not yet taken place.

    Regarding your scriptures:

    I agree. Those who hold the truth in unrighteoussness are Christians continuing in unrepentant sin. I dont believe in once saved always saved because of this verse.

    I agree. We all have a conscience and therefore we are without excuse for being guilty of hell for our sin, God is justified in sending everyone to hell indeed! BUT Jesus gives us a free gift of slavation, because God knew mankind could not pass God's laws without The Holy Spirits conviction and strength from a loving relationship with Jesus. See John 14:6 is very clear that nobody gets to the Father except through Jesus, which also proves that nobody could ever be worthy to be with God by the knowledge of God in His creation.

    If this applies to Jews or anyone who has not accepted or heard of Jesus, then they were all already unworthy to be with God in the first place, because there is no worthy sacrifice for their sins. ONLY Jesus is the worthy sacrifice for sins. No matter how holy they were as jews. Its irrelevant as breaking one law is breaking all.

    If this applies to Christians, like I said above, I agree that Christians who continue in unrepentant sin can lose their salvation, but
    at least they had a chance to be saved and have The conviction of The Holy Spirit. Which is why Paul says (think Romans 6) that they have made shipwreck of their salvation and like a dog gone back to their vomit. It is more serious if a Christian turns on God having known Jesus compared to someone who has not known Jesus by the spirit.

    I agree. God is fully justified in sending us all to hell! but I see this as our conscience and as I have stated above, by our conscience we were all doomed anyways.
     
  5. :) I completely agree.

    The written word though also has to be a spiritual revelation and be taken in context to grasp it, because its so easy to mis-interpret.

    There are ruling precedents that have to filter the truth as well , for example: God is fair and no respector of persons.
    Which is why I am battling to accept that if He gives one human an opportunity to have his conscience 200 times bigger with the conviction now of The Holy Spirit to a heart that loves and knows Jesus and God the Father, hence making it so much easier for that person to obey God's laws, He should surely need to give all the same opportunity to for themselves decide to accept or reject Jesus in equal and fair conditions.
     
  6. I have found the below on the internet, this guy puts it much better then me, I really need closure on this subject and thank all for commenting and reading! :)


    God "desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy:2:4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.). But considering the masses of humanity who have never even heard the name of Christ, many Christians have wondered if or how they would have a chance for salvation. We believe the Bible teaches that all will have a real chance through the often neglected doctrine of "resurrection of the dead" and God's judgment (Hebrews:6:2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.).

    Is there hope for the unbelieving person who rejected God's calling and spurned His way of life? No, a person who has knowingly refused God's calling and the way of life He reveals has only the lake of fire to look forward to, which will end his or her existence for eternity (Hebrews:6:4-6[4]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,[5]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,[6]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.; 10:26-29). However, there is another type of unbeliever—one who never had the opportunity to choose or reject God's way of life. Many sincere people believe that we must "accept Jesus" in this life or we are lost forever. But what about the billions of people who have lived out their lives without ever hearing the name of Christ and therefore had no chance at salvation (Acts:4:12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.)? Is it fair for God to destroy them forever when they never really had an opportunity to understand His truth?

    Many know that God will resurrect the saints at Christ's return (1 Thessalonians:4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:; 1 Corinthians:15:52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.), but most read right over Christ's teachings about a second resurrection. He spoke of people from different ages coming face-to-face in "the day of judgment" (Matthew:11:20-24[20]Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:[21]Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.[22]But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.[23]And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.[24]But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee., 12:41-42; Luke:10:12-15[12]But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.[13]Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.[14]But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment, than for you.[15]And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.). God will bring back to life the people of Sodom, Tyre, Sidon and Ninevah along with the queen of Sheba at the same time as those people who heard Christ speak these words in the first century. The only way for this to be possible—for people who lived literally many hundreds of years apart to live again at the same time—is for God to resurrect all of them at the same time.

    A second resurrection allows a first chance at salvation

    As we saw in Hebrews:6:4-6[4]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,[5]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,[6]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. and 10:26-29, the Scriptures are plain about the fact that all people have only one chance at salvation. However, a second chance at life is not the same as a second chance at salvation. Coming to life again will enable those brought to life in the second resurrection to have their only chance for salvation.

    The apostle Paul implied a second resurrection in his writings (Romans:11:26-27[26]And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:[27]For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.), and the book of Revelation speaks of it as specifically as Christ did (Revelation:20:5, 11-12). These references are not about the resurrection of the saints spoken of in 1 Corinthians:15:52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed., for the people in the above references are called enemies (Romans:11:28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.) and are contrasted with the saints (they are called "the rest of the dead" in Revelation:20:5).

    In Revelation:20:5 the expression "This is the first resurrection" refers to the resurrection of the saints. We know from the above reference in 1 Corinthians that God does this at Christ's return and the beginning of His 1,000-year rule on the earth, not at the end. The first part of the verse ("But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years are finished") is a parenthetical statement that speaks of dead who will not live again until the thousand years are over. Clearly, the first part of the verse isn't speaking of the resurrection of the righteous dead, but rather of those who died without a chance at salvation.

    Great white throne: the judgment seat of God

    Why do we say that Revelation:20:11-12, where God judges from a "great white throne," refers to a second resurrection? If these people understood and obeyed the truth in their lifetime, God would have resurrected them a thousand years before—at the return of Jesus Christ (the first resurrection, 1 Corinthians:15:52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.). Or, if they understood the truth and rejected it, the only unfinished part of God's judgment would be the death sentence. No further judging would be necessary in either case.

    What's the difference between judgment and sentencing? Judgment is part of an ongoing process. God is in the process of judging Christians today (1 Peter:4:17For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?). Drawing a parallel with human courts, judgment involves the gathering of evidence, weighing or evaluating that evidence and the passing of a final sentence. Anyone, living or dead, whose mind God did not open to spiritual understanding hasn't begun the judgment process that ends with a decision (sentence) of eternal life or of death.

    Of those to be brought to life in the second resurrection, Jesus said it would be "more tolerable" for some than for others (Matthew:10:15Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.). If God resurrects these people only to sentence them to death, Christ's comments wouldn't make any sense. If all were to die, judgment would not be "more tolerable" for one than for another. But clearly, their judgment is incomplete, and hence, God brings them back to physical life.

    Ezekiel:37:1-14[1]The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,[2]And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.[3]And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.[4]Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.[5]Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:[6]And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.[7]So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.[8]And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.[9]Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.[10]So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.[11]Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.[12]Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.[13]And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,[14]And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD. describes the second resurrection in colorful detail. It speaks of an entire nation that died without hope of life and without the knowledge of God that could lead to their salvation. God promises them two things—to resurrect them to physical life and to give them spiritual understanding (Ezekiel:37:10So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army., 14). The gift of the Holy Spirit will enable them to live the Christian way of life.

    Most people in the grave did not know the only name by which salvation is possible (Acts:4:12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.), and God wills that all humankind have an opportunity for salvation (2 Peter:3:9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.). If there were no second resurrection, the majority of people down through history would suffer unfair condemnation to death in the lake of fire without ever having a chance at conversion. But God is fair, just and merciful.

    If God is opening your mind to understand His truth, now is the time to act! There are no second chances. But it is comforting to know that He will mercifully give everyone a first chance.
     
  7. Hearing the name of Jesus is not necessary to be saved, as the saints in the Old Testament amply prove. There is no other name by which man can be saved, but that doesn't mean you have to know it. Salvation is by faith in God. And, every man is without excuse for not having faith in God.

    There is no chance of obtaining salvation after this life. Although, your effort to prove otherwise is interesting. You should be careful with Revelation and slow to reach conclusions, given its nature. However, you argue that saints are resurrected and then a 1000 years later, there's another resurrection. You say that the people in the second resurrection must have had a second chance. But, if you take Revelation superficially, only a certain subgroup of saints are resurrected in the first resurrection, perhaps the saints of a single generation. In the second resurrection, the saints given eternal life are the saints who while being saints were not resurrected the first time, not the lost who became saved after the first resurrection. And, where is the opportunity for these people get saved and come to know Christ after they're dead but before they're resurrected?
     
  8. Is it not possible that all the saints from the OT were in Abrahams bosom and needed to accept Jesus to get into heaven? ( 1 Pet 3:18-20)

    How can you be so sure?

    Does it not make sense that if God gave you the opportunity to accept Jesus, knowing that once you have, you would have the strength from Him to live a life that pleases Him, that then surely He will give all mankind the same opportunity. If not, then many can be forgiven for thinking God is unfair / favours some, but we know the Bible says that God is no respector of persons, so is it not just us putting God in our own box with our lack of understanding?

    Yes, I agree with what you say about revelation. I dont agree yet 100% with the post I found, but it is food for thought.

    My opinion is based alot on all the testimonies of those having deathbed experiences with Jesus.
     
  9. No. The New Testament says they were saved by their faith, the faith they had in this world. By accepting the one true God, they had accepted Christ.

    After death comes judgement.

    Does it make sense that God put me in a society where God is rejected and Jesus is mocked?

    ??
     
  10. Then why did they go to Abrahams bosom and not straight to heaven?

    Nobody has been judged yet. The White throne and Bema seat judgement has NOT yet taken place. So your statement is just an assumption.

    At least YOU and I HAVE The Holy Spirit to give us strength to walk throught the valley of shadow and death....WHAT of the poor
    cannibals that NEVER heard the gospel? WHAT of all the Egyptian soldiers just obeying their commanders instructions to attack the Jews and what of the Jews who crucified Jesus?

    Does Jesus not say 'FORGIVE them Father, for they know NOT what they do'?

    Ever watch the "lazarus phenomenom'? A true story of an Australian guy getting bitten by jellyfish while diving, having a deathbed experience with Jesus, who gave him the option to accept or reject Him and once he accepted he got the option to die and go to heaven or live?

    Plz don't think I am shouting at you with the caps ;) and thanks for continuing this thread, I didnt have peace on the subject.
     
  11. In responce to you comment..............................
    Major, I am no theologian, but just using common sense, it doesnt make sense to me that anyone be in hell now as the White Throne judgement has not yet taken place.

    That is correct my friend. The Great White Throne Judgment has not taken place yet.

    When one dies physicaly their spirit must go somewhere and the Scriptures (Luke 16)teach us that there is a place called SHEOL (Hebrew), HADES (Greek). It is divided by a "gulf" (Luke 16).

    One side is called "TORMENTS and that is where the spirit of the lost man is incarcerated waiting for the GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT of Rev. 20:11-15. The other saide of SHEOL/HADES is called "PARADISE or ABRAHAM"S BOSSOM according again to Luke 16. That is the place where all the saints of the Old Test. went and when Jesus ascented to heaven He took those spirts with Him to heaven (Ephesians 4:1-10).

    Today there is no-one in the Paradise side of SHEOL...........only in the Torments side.

    The Torments side will actually become the "Lake of Fire" as the lost are resurrected in Rev. 20, and are then judged at the Great Whate Throne and sentenced to eternity in the Lake of Fire.
     
  12. #1.....Is it not possible that all the saints from the OT were in Abrahams bosom and needed to accept Jesus to get into heaven? ( 1 Pet 3:18-20).

    NO!
    They were in Paradise (Abraham's Bosom) because of their FAITH in God and by the blood sacrifices they made to cover their sins.

    As for 1 Peter 3:18-20........."He went and preached unto the spirits" refers to the lost souls in TORMENTS who rejected God and no blood sacrifice was found for them. This was NOT salvation preaching and the Scriptures do not even suggest such a thing. This preaching was the announcment of His triumpth on the Cross which in fact sealed the fate of all the damned souls.

    Then we have this.......................
    Does it not make sense that if God gave you the opportunity to accept Jesus, knowing that once you have, you would have the strength from Him to live a life that pleases Him, that then surely He will give all mankind the same opportunity.

    All of man kind has had that opportunity my dear friend. BUT just in case that is not the case......the Scriptures teach us that the Great White Throne Judgment is based on the evil works of the un-saved.

    Read Rev. 20:11-15 very carfully and you will see that this judgment , contrary to popular misconceptions is not to determine whether those who satand before it are saved or not. ALL those that are to be saved have been saved and have entered into their eternal home. This is a judgment on the works of the unsaved and the sentance of the second death is passed upon them. (vs 12).

    Now here is the key.....................THERE WILL BE DEGREES OF PUNISHMENT METED OUT TO THE UNSAVED. (Luke 12:47-48). But the sentence of the second death will be passed on ALL the unsaved.
     
  13. #1.
    They went to Abraham's bosom's because the sheding of blood for the FORGIVENESS of their sins had not yet taken place my friend.

    The Old Test. saints were saved on "CREDIT" with the sacrifice of dead animals COVERING their sin. They could not enter heaven until the blood was shed to CLEANSE their souls of sin.

    When Jesus shed His blood and died and rose again, He paid for the sins of the Old Test. Saints with His shed blood are now ready, their sins were PAID FOR and they were cleansed and made ready for ascention to heaven.

    #2.
    The Judgment Seat of Christ is caled the BEMA SEAT and it HAS IN FACT TAKEN PLACE my friend.
    The sins of humanity were placed onto Jesus on the cross and our sins were judged right then and there.
    The Bema Seat Judgment was for BELIEVERS and took place on the cross.

    #3.
    As posted already...........there are differing degrees of punishment that apply to the question you asked.

    But actually, Romans 1 answers your question by saying that all humanity is guilty of sain because we are convicted by NATURE that there is a Creator who made all things.

    #4.
    I have read and seen many AFTER DEATH PRESENTATIONS. The fact is I do not believe a single one of them. They are all based on the belief from a person who we are required to believe without any proof whatsoever............other than our mind who wants to believe that there is another way to heaven outside of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    The Bible says no man has seen God and lived.
    The Bible says that we have seen and heard the prophets of God and IF a man came back from the dead, no one would believe him anyway.
     
  14. Thanks for the replies Major!

    I have to agree 100% with you . I have thought that way my whole life, just thinking so much lately about my OP.

    I am curious though, would you have a verse for the Bema seat judgement already taking place?

    Special thanks for Luke 12:47-48, I never knew that scripture to apply to those in hell, it makes so much sense.
     
  15. I don't believe that Luke 12:47-48 applies to Hell. The summery of the parable is Luke 12:49b. The more you have, the more will be expected from you.
     
  16. I am so very blessed that I was able to help you. That is what this site is all about.

    As for the Scripture of of the Jedgment Seat of Christ (Bema Seat) having already taken place.......
    THERE ARE NONE because it has not taken place as of yet.

    Bema is a Greek term meaning "judgment seat." In the city of Corinth, a stone platform was constructed to support the Bema seat (judgment seat) of the local officials. The seat was used to give out awards to athletes for their competitive performances (usually a crown wreath of leaves), but also to address legal charges brought against individuals. The great Apostle Paul was quite familiar with this seat. This is where he was brought before Gallio, who was the proconsul of Achaia at the Bema seat (Acts 18:12). This seat was also what Paul referred to in 2 Corinthians 5:9-11 as the "judgment seat of Christ." In this context, Paul explains to us that this is where the Christian will receive an evaluation for works done in the body, whether good or bad.
    The Judgment of believers will occur immediately following the rapture. The rapture is a future event, an imminent event, when all born again believers will be caught up in the air by Jesus and taken home, by Him, to Heaven. The timing of the Judgment Seat of Christ is given in the following scriptures:

    In Luke 14:12-14, reward is associated with the resurrection and the rapture is when the church is resurrected. The term Church refers to believers.

    In Revelation 19:8, when the Lord returns with His bride at the end of the tribulation, she is seen already rewarded. Her reward is described as fine linen, the righteous acts of the saints undoubtedly the result of rewards.

    In 2 Timothy 4:8 and 1 Corinthians 4:5, rewards are associated with "that day" and with the Lord's coming. Again, for the church this means the event of the rapture.
     
  17. Actually you are correct.

    The picture there is however IMO one of exactly what you said.......

    "The more you have, the more will be expected from you".

    Because the Bible tells us there will be REWARDS to those who go to heaven, therefore there will be "degrees" of punishment to those who do not go to heaven and they are based on what one knew, some knowing nothing and some others know a lot but rejecting that knowledge.

    12:49 is a picture of "judgment" IMO. FIRE fefers to judgment and it seems to me that 12:49 then has a connection to 3:16 by saying..."What will I".
     
  18. There's the parable of the workmen who worked various lengths of time but were all paid the same amount. Matt 20:1-16 There are no degrees of reward or punishment.

    In the Luke 12:42:48, the parable you refer to, says the bad manager will be assigned a place with the unbelievers. No degrees of reward or punishment, just being cut up and cast out (v46b). Absolute punishment.

    The comment about degrees of whipping is to make the case about expectations. The more someone has, the more that's expected from them. I take this as a warning against self-righteousness. Someone in a better position doing no better than someone in a lower position is not as good as the person in the lower position.

    The worst doctrine is created by people trying to infer things from a few verses which are not explicitly said, or which go against things which are explicitly said.

    Christianity is all or nothing. Breaking the smallest law makes you guilty of breaking all the law. Having faith in Christ eliminates from your record all sin. This is the explicit teaching of scripture, and it goes against what you are trying to infer. How can you have degrees of punishment when you're guilty of breaking all the law, or none at all?
     
    mistmann likes this.
  19. This makes no logical sense :confused:.

    If there are no degrees of punnishment then WHY have a judgement day? and not just a sentencing.

    Breaking the smallest law (and imo being guilty of rejecting Christ) and not having a covering for your sin makes you deserve hell indeed. How can someone who has only commited adultery in their minds be guilty of the same level of punishment as Hitler? If we can judge with our little minds that that sounds ridiculous, how much more God who gave us our mind.
     
  20. Here's judgement day according to the Bible:

    When the Son of Man comes in His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats, and He will set the sheep on His right hand but the goats at the left. Then the king will say to those on His right hand, “Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world..." Then He will also say to those on the left hand, “Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels..."

    You're in or you're out. Period.

    Your righteous deeds are as filthy rags to the Lord. There's really no such thing as going through life being sinless other than committing adultery in your mind. And, millions of other people would do as much evil as Hitler did, if given the circumstances and opportunity.

    Regardless, God's standard is perfection. Either you achieve it, or you don't.
     

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