The TWO NEW Covenants -Miles J. Stanford

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by netchaplain, Jan 10, 2012.

  1. Are Christians Under Any "New Covenant"?


    The subject of Israel's New Covenant, and the erroneous notion of its relationship to the New Creation Christian and the Body of Christ--the Church, remains a hot topic in dispensational circles. Like the doctrine of the Fall, the subject of the "New Covenant" is a 'watershed' issue in both Christendom and among truly born-again Christians.

    Slowly, growing believers are awakening to the serious negative consequences of believing that the Church is the direct, or even indirect, beneficiary of any of God's blessing via Israel's New Covenant. The Church is the primary beneficiary of the Everlasting Covenant!



    The TWO NEW Covenants


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    PAULINE DISPENSATIONALISM stands for the following concerning the relationship between the Everlasting Covenant, Israel's New Covenant, and the heavenly Church:

    I - THE EVERLASTING COVENANT -- The Everlasting Covenant of Hebrews 13:20,21 was ratified in eternity past between the Father and the Son, and was fulfilled at the resurrection of Christ.

    II - ISRAEL'S NEW COVENANT -- Israel's New Covenant (Jer. 31:31,32; Ezek. 36:26,27; 37:14) is between God and kingdom Israel only, and will be inaugurated and fulfilled at the Second Advent.

    III - THE HEAVENLY CHURCH -- God has never made a covenant with the Church.

    By means of the common, unequivocal, literal hermeneutic, we will share the scriptural facts as to the relationship between the Everlasting Covenant, Israel's New Covenant, and the heavenly Church.

    I - THE EVERLASTING COVENANT:
    Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that Great Shepherd of the sheep, through the Blood of the Everlasting Covenant, make you perfect in every good work to do His will, working in you that which is well-pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen (Heb. 13:20,21).

    The Everlasting Covenant is neither between God and the Church, nor God and Israel, nor God and the Gentiles. Rather, it is between the party of the first part, "the God of peace," and the party of the second part, the "Lord Jesus."

    The conditions of this covenant were that if the Great Shepherd would lay down His life for the sheep, the Father would raise Him from among the dead. "And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the Cross." "But God raised Him from the dead ...." He was "raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father" (Phil. 2:8; Acts 13:30; Rom. 6:4).

    The Everlasting Covenant was ratified in eternity past, and fulfilled at the resurrection. It is a new covenant in respect to TIME (Calvary), and it is new in respect to KIND, i.e., between God the Father and God the Son. It is the fulfillment of Galatians 3:20: "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one."

    The Mosaic Covenant was between God and Israel, with Moses as mediator. Israel broke that covenant. "My covenant they broke, although I was an husband to them, saith the Lord" (Jer. 31:32). Hence Israel's New Covenant is unconditional--"I will." But the Everlasting Covenant is all of God--God the Father, and God the Son: "God is One."

    While neither under it, nor a part of it, the Church is the primary beneficiary of the Everlasting Covenant. "I ... make you perfect in every good work to do His will, working in you that which is well-pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ." The Church has not come to the Covenant; she is in union of life with the Mediator of all covenants!

    Israel's New Covenant is based upon the Everlasting Covenant, i.e., the Blood of the Cross.

    II - ISRAEL'S NEW COVENANT
    This New Covenant is (a) exclusively Israel's; (b) it is for the future millennial and the eternal kingdom; (c) it is eternal; (d) it has several features:

    (a) The Recipients -- "Behold, the days will come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah." "And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel, and one king shall be king unto them all; and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all" (Jer. 31:31; Ezek. 37:22).

    (b) The Covenant Is Still Future -- Hosea prophesied:

    "And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of the heavens, and with the creeping things of the ground, and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely" (2:18).

    A century later Jeremiah prophesied: "This shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel" (31:33).

    A century later Ezekiel prophesied: "Thus said the Lord God: Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, to which they are gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land" (37:21).

    Six centuries later Paul stated: "And all Israel shall be saved; as it is written, there shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob; for this is My covenant unto them, that I will take away their sins" (Rom. 11:26,27).

    Israel's New Covenant will neither be inaugurated nor fulfilled until after the Great Tribulation (Jacob's trouble), nor until the Deliverer returns to earth, nor until Israel's sins are forgiven.

    "Alas, for the day is great, so that none is like it; it is even the time of Jacob's trouble [Great Tribulation], but he shall be saved out of it. But they shall serve the Lord, and David, their king, whom I shall raise up unto them" (Jer. 30:7,9).

    (c) Israel's New Covenant Is Eternal -- "And David, My servant, shall be king over them, and they shall have one shepherd; they shall also walk in Mine ordinances, and observe My statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob, my servant, and they shall dwell in it, even they, and their children, and their children's children forever; and My servant, David, shall be their prince forever. Moreover, I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them" (Ezek. 37:24-26).

    (d) The Contents of Israel's New Covenant:

    Forgiven -- "For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer. 31:34).

    Regenerated -- "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh" (Ezek. 37:26).

    Kingdom Law -- "I will put My law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts" (Jer. 31:33).

    Indwelling Spirit -- "And I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My ordinances, and do them" (Ezek. 36:27).

    Possession of the Land -- "Behold, I will gather them out of all countries to which I have driven them. Yea, I will rejoice over them in doing them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with My whole heart and with My whole soul" (Jer. 32:37,41).



    SEPARATE, OR SINK -- Both Classic and Traditional Dispensationalism have always dipped into Israel's comparatively slender New Covenant resources, claiming their "spiritual" blessings for the Church. This unwarranted encroachment has resulted in the downfall of Dispensationalism, and the upsurge of kingdom-oriented Progressive Dispensationalism, and kingdom-centered Covenantism.

    If you so much as touch Israel at any point--past, present, or future--you have violated the rightly-divided Word of truth and its Pauline Dispensationalism.

    HEBREWS -- The book of Hebrews was written primarily for the Hebrew converts to Christianity. Its purpose was to center them in the glorified Lord Jesus Christ in the heavenlies, and to protect them from turning back to the Mosaic Covenant and its Law.

    Hamilton Smith explains the problem:

    To the Jewish converts the Epistle to the Hebrews was written. [Also to the Judaized Church of today.] The purpose is to bring them into the new and heavenly relationship of Christianity by detaching them from the earthly religion of Judaism.

    These converts would naturally have strong links with the religion of their fathers. The ties of nature, the love of country, the prospects of earth, and the prejudices of training, would all tend to bind them to the system that God had set aside. It would therefore be especially difficult for them to enter into the heavenly character of Christianity.

    While the Temple was yet standing, and the Aaronic priests were still offering up visible sacrifices, there was the constant danger of those who had made the profession of Christianity turning back to Judaism.

    James L. Harris, another early Plymouth Brethren writer, elaborates:

    Put yourself in the place of a Hebrew convert on a solemn feast day in Jerusalem--one of the three thousand converted by the first sermon of Peter. Multitudes from all quarters would be assembled around him--Jerusalem filled with worshippers--while he would be apart from all that attracted them.

    But would not his soul have many a struggle in keeping away from the festival and its religious throng? Would not he have appeared to be an enemy to his country and to the Temple? But was it really so?

    Think further of the contrast he must in his own soul have seen between the upper chamber, or any other unpretentious locality, and the splendid Temple. Must it not have required much simple faith in the Lord Jesus, to meet together for worship with a member as unaccredited as himself, without any visible priest to order their worship, any sacrifice, any incense, any altar?

    Would not the multitude keeping holy-day give as it were the lie to the worship he had been engaged in, as if it had been no worship at all? Surely there is great force in the words, "not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is" (Heb. 10:25).

    Moreover, the seen things of the Jewish religion were only the shadows of good things to come: whereas the unseen things of Christianity are the substance. They were called to go outside the Jewish camp to reach Christ, who was in the outside place of reproach. Having come outside they are warned not to "draw back" (Jewish Bondage and Christian Freedom, pp. 45,46,60) .

    MOSES OUT! -- The author of Hebrews used Israel's New Covenant to show these converts that the Mosaic Covenant was to be replaced:

    "But now hath He obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also He is the Mediator of a better covenant [grace], which was established upon better promises ['I will"]. For if the first [Mosaic] covenant had been faultless ['weak through the flesh' Rom. 8:3], then should no place have been sought for the second."

    "For finding fault with this, He saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah" (Heb. 8:6-8).

    "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, which, My covenant, they broke" (Jer. 31:32).

    "In that He saith, A new covenant, He hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and groweth old is ready to vanish away" (Heb. 8:13).

    Wm. R. Newell gives the proper conclusion concerning these covenants:

    The great word as to the former covenant is: "He hath made the first old ... nigh unto vanishing away." It vanished indeed a few years later--in A.D. 70--when the Temple was sacked and burned, and Jerusalem destroyed by Titus.

    While place is foretold for the "house of Israel and the house of Judah" in this Epistle of Hebrews, yet lay it to heart: The old Mosaic Covenant is gone (vs. 9,13); and the new covenant not yet come.

    The author is writing to Hebrew believers with whose fathers God has made a "covenant," and with which nation He will, by and by, at the Messiah's return to Israel, make a "new" covenant, saying, "And this is the covenant from Me unto them, when I shall take away their sins" (Rom. 11:27).

    These Hebrew believers were called, then, to face the fact that the old covenant, with the Law principle of blessing, had been set aside. We behold national Israel today without a covenant, "regarded not" by Jehovah!

    And so we turn to Hebrews 13:20, and "in the Blood of the Eternal Covenant" between the God of peace and the Lord Jesus, we find ourselves, with true Hebrew believers, all "partakers of a heavenly calling."

    And it is the Blood of that Everlasting Covenant which we celebrate when we gather at the Lord's table; so that all hope in man has passed away forever; and so has all hope in Divine Law to be fulfilled by man as the "condition of blessing" (Hebrews, Verse by Verse, p. 259).

    The purpose and burden of Hebrews is to draw believers away from anything of earthly Israel, and to establish them in their heavenly position in Christ, and that by the "Blood of the Everlasting Covenant." He would never point them to Israel's earthly New Covenant for anything heavenly!

    "Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the Holiest by the Blood of Jesus, by a new and living way, which He hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say , His flesh. Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith..." (Heb. 10:19,20,22).

    Try and get that via Israel, past, present, or future!

    There is no blood of Israel's New Covenant. That covenant, and all other covenants, are based upon the Blood of the Everlasting Covenant! Therefore:

    "For this is My Blood, which is shed for many for the remission of sins" (Matt. 26:28).

    "And He said unto them, This is My Blood of the New [Everlasting] Covenant, which is shed for many" (Mark 14:24).

    "Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in My Blood which is shed for you" (Lu. 22:20).

    "The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the Blood of Christ?" (1 Cor. 10:16).

    "This cup is the new covenant in My Blood: this do in remembrance of Me" (1 Cor. 11:25).

    PAULINE -- Paul's ministry was heavenly, to the heavenly Body of Christ. There is no way that he could have resorted to Israel's earthly kingdom New Covenant for ministry to the heavenly Church! His ministry was (is) based upon the "Blood of the Everlasting Covenant." Is there anyone here who has a problem with that? If so, read on.

    If you think Paul was a minister of Israel's New Covenant, and if you aspire to be the same, you are kingdom bound, along with Progressive Dispensationalism and its counterpart, Covenantism. Flat, horizontal, earthly-wrong!

    "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter, but of the spirit; for the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life" "But now we are delivered from the law [Israel's New Covenant writes the kingdom law upon their hearts] having died to that in which we were held, that we should serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the [Mosaic] letter" (2 Cor. 3:6; Rom. 7:6).

    III. THE HEAVENLY CHURCH
    Imagine anything of the following being based upon, or drawn from, Israel's New Covenant!

    Creation was first in point of time, but the Bridal Church was first in the counsel of God. In eternity past the Father conceived the Church, the Body, the Bride for His Beloved Son, and He kept her a secret and a mystery to man in His heart, until Paul.

    "This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the Church-" " ... the mystery of Christ, which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men." " ... the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began." " ... even the mystery which hath been hidden in God." " ... even the mystery which hath been hidden from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to His saints" (Eph. 5:32; 3:5,9; Rom. 16:25; Col. 1:29).

    Hamilton Smith wrote of the Church:

    The Church, that which is nearest to the heart of the Father and dearest to the heart of the Son; for therein we learn that the Father has purposed to secure an object that is entirely suited for the love of His Beloved Son.

    In the Church as the Bride we see, not only a company of people who find in Christ a satisfying Object for their hearts, but a company of people who become a suited object for His love.

    This is the marvel and blessedness of the Church viewed as the Bride of Christ--the Father's bridal gift to His Beloved Son. It is little wonder that the Church should find in Christ an Object of love, but that in the Bride an object should be found entirely suited for the Son to love is indeed a great wonder (The Bride of the Lamb, pp. 18,19).

    EACH CHOSEN -- "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world" (Eph. 1:4).

    EACH CALLED -- "Who hath saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ before the world began" (2 Tim. 1:9).

    " ... called according to His purpose. For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son" (Rom. 8:29,30).

    HEART SECRET -- From eternity past, through the ages and generations of time, the Father kept the Bride secretly hidden in His heart of love. Like a mighty jet stream, high above recorded history and Scripture, all unknown to man, the Father finally brought her in a secret descent to the Cross. Not only the descent, but the Cross itself was secret:

    "But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the ages unto our glory: which none of the princes of this age knew; for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory" (1 Cor. 2:7,8).

    SINS FORGIVEN -- There, on the Cross, all of the sins that would ever be committed by a member of the Body, were forgiven. "In whom we have redemption through His Blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace" (Eph. 1:7).

    SIN CONDEMNED -- Adamic sin was not forgiven. Rather, on the Cross it was judged, condemned, and crucified. "God, sending His own Son, in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh." "Knowing this, that out old [Adamic] man was crucified with Him" (Rom. 8:3; 6:6).

    IDENTIFICATION -- Every member of the Bride-to-be, in Adam, was judicially identified with Christ on the Cross. There He was made to be sin--our sin; hence we were identified with Him in His death to sin. "For He hath made Him, who knew no sin, to be sin for us." "I have been crucified with Christ" (2 Cor. 5:21; Gal. 2:20).

    BURIED WITH HIM -- In our identification with Him in His death to sin, we were buried with Him. "Therefore, we were buried with Him" (Rom. 6:4).

    DEATH-SEPARATION -- In order to be raised from the dead, resurrected, as a new creation in the Last Adam, it was necessary for us to be separated from the first Adam by death. "Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation; old [first Adam] things are [positionally] passed away; behold, all things are become [positionally] new." "Likewise, reckon ye also yourselves to have died indeed unto sin, but to be alive unto God in Jesus Christ" (2 Cor. 5:17; Rom. 6:11).

    ASCENDED BRIDE -- Having separated the Bride from Adam and recreated her in Christ, the Father raised her to the heavenlies--each member of the Body of Christ. "Even when we were dead in sins [God] hath made us alive [recreated] together with Christ ... and hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:5,6).

    THE BLOOD -- The Bride was redeemed by "the precious Blood of Christ" (1 Pet. 1: 19). The Bride was "made nigh by the Blood of Christ" (Eph. 2:13). The Bride was positioned in Christ--"hidden with Christ in God" (Col. 3:3). The Bride has "boldness to enter into the Holiest by the Blood of Jesus" (Heb. 10:19).

    PENTECOST -- Soon the Spirit of God brought her to earth again, like a rushing mighty wind, to begin her experiential history--the Bride growing up incognito, in the world, but not of it. "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come ... suddenly there came a sound from heaven like a rushing mighty wind. ..and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:1,2,4).

    THE HOLY SPIRIT -- From that time forth the Spirit of Christ indwells all who believe--all of the chosen, elect, called members of the Body of Christ. Each believer is baptized by the Spirit into the Body of Christ--in union with Christ. "For by one Spirit were we all baptized into one Body" (1 Cor. 12:13).

    IN CHRIST -- "So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another." "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ" (1 Cor. 12:27; Gal. 3:27).

    CHRIST IN YOU -- Our union with Christ is reciprocal--we are in Him, and He is in us. "Christ in you, the hope of glory." "At that day ye shall know that I am in My Father, and ye in Me, and I in you" (Col. 1:27; John 14:20).

    JOINT-HEIRS -- Each member of the Body of Christ is an heir with Christ. "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." "The Spirit beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God." "And if children, then heirs--heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ" (Rom. 8:14,16,17).

    TOTAL ONENESS -- Our life in Christ is complete--total oneness with Him. "For he that is joined to the Lord is one spirit." "And ye are complete in Him." "Accepted in the Beloved." "For we are members of His Body, of His flesh, and of His bones" (1 Cor. 6:17; Col. 2:10; Eph. 1:6; 5:30).

    RAPTURE -- In the Father's appointed time, when He has completed the Body of Christ, He will again take her aloft--this time for the Bride to meet her Bridegroom in the air. It is then that her eternal position will become experiential condition.

    "When He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is." "For our citizenship is in heaven, from where also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall change our lowly body, that it may be fashioned like His glorious body" (1 John 3:2; Phil. 3:20,21).

    SECOND ADVENT -- Ere long the Bridegroom-King will bring His all-glorious Bride down from heaven to reign forever with Him over the earth. "When Christ, who is our Life shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory." "They shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years." "And they shall reign for ever and ever" (Col. 3:4; Rev. 20:6; 22:5).

    LEWIS SPERRY CHAFER wrote:

    The Church is the Bride of the Lamb. A moment's meditation on the exaltation of the Son of God and the incomparable reality of its relation to time and eternity, to earth and heaven, and to men and angels, will compel the conclusion that the Church's elevated position-like that of her Bridegroom--is far above all principalities and powers.

    Of His elevation and exaltation is it said, "Which He wrought in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead, and set Him at His own right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come" (Eph. 1:20,21) (Systematic Theology VII: 135).

    HAMILTON SMITH wrote:

    The day is soon coming when the Church will be presented to Christ "a glorious Church not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish." It will be of Himself and therefore His like. It will be formed in His affection by the sanctifying and cleansing effect of the Word, and therefore able to respond to His love.

    For all eternity Christ is going to have His Beloved Bride, like Himself, one that can think as He thinks, feel as He feels, love as He loves, and hence one that is made perfectly suited to be the object of His love. Then indeed Christ shall be satisfied. He will see of the fruit of the travail of His soul and be satisfied (The Bride of the Lamb, p. 24,25).

    O day of wondrous promise!
    The Bridegroom and the Bride
    Are seen in glory ever;
    And love is satisfied!




    The God of Peace, that brought

    again from the dead our Lord Jesus,

    the Great Shepherd of the Sheep,

    through the Blood of the

    Everlasting Covenant

    Hebrews 13:20


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    BODY BEAUTIFUL
    Paul wrote that "it pleased the Father to reveal His Son in me" (Gal. 1:16). This is the ground of the Church's special dignity, and the Gospel which Paul represented and preached. It was not the Gospel of Messiah, the Hope of Israel, nor the Gospel of the once crucified One, now exalted "to be a Prince and a Saviour, to give repentance to Israel, and remission of sin"; but it was the Gospel of the Son of God revealed in him.

    The Son had been revealed to the disciples by the Father before (Matt. 16:17); but now He is revealed in Paul. The Holy Spirit in him was the Spirit of the Son. And anointed with the oil of gladness, he had to go forth and spread the savour of it everywhere. And upon the Son thus revealed within, hangs everything that is peculiar to the calling of the Christian and therefore the Church.

    Thus we read, "The Spirit Himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God ... and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with Him, that we may be also glorified together" (Rom. 8:16,17). And again, we read, "that we are predestinated to the adoption of children by Jesus Christ," that is, as Paul here speaks of himself, to have the Son revealed in us.

    And this being the predestinated condition of the Church, there comes forth, as in the train of this, all the believer's holy prerogatives--acceptance in the Beloved, with the forgiveness of sins through His Blood--entrance into the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, so as to have made known to us the mystery of the will of the Father--future inheritance in and with Him, in Whom all things in heaven and earth are to be gathered--and the present seal and earnest of this inheritance in the Holy Spirit.

    This bright roll of privileges is inscribed by the Apostle thus--"spiritual blessings in the heavenlies"; and so are linking us with Him Who is the Lord in the heavens (Eph.1:4-12). All this follows upon the Son being revealed in us, by which the believer puts on Christ, so as to be one with Him in every stage of His wondrous way: dead, quickened, raised, and seated in heaven in Him (Eph. 2:6).

    A mediator such as Moses, whose best service was to keep Jehovah and the people apart (see Deut. 5:5), could never answer the purpose of this marvelous love of our Father. But in the Son we are accepted; we have everything by our oneness with the Mediator Himself (John 17:26). Nothing less than this could fulfill the desire of our heavenly Father's heart towards us.

    The wall of partition, whether between God and sinners, or between Jew and Gentile, is broken down; and we stand together on its ruins, triumphing over them in Christ, our heavenly Father rejoicing over them also. This is the marvelous workmanship of the love of God, and the forming and completing of this union of Christ and the Christian, is the husbandry which the Father is now tending. He is not, as once He was, caring for a land of wheat, and oil, and pomegranates, that His people might eat without scarceness of the increase of the field (Deut. 11:12); but He is the Husbandman of the Vine and the branches. He is training the Body in union with the Son of His love until all of the members come into the knowledge of Him to a perfect man.

    It is this union which makes us of the same family with the Lord Jesus, and entitles us to hear of Him as "the First-born" (Rom. 8:29). It is this union of life which gives us the same glory with the Lord Jesus, and entitles us to look after Him as "the Forerunner" (Heb. 6:20). It is this which gives character to that life which we now have, and to that glory in which we shall be manifested, when He Who is our Life shall appear. --J.G. Bellett
     
  2. Like many theologies that must work extremely hard at reinterpreting everything in the Bible to make it conform to the claims of the theologists this too is a very long and convoluted one. However any Theology that separates the future of "Israel" and "Church" fails totally before it starts because it has not understood or properly identified the Biblical concept that is called "Israel". Israel is not a people united by a common genetic heritage, nor by a common geographical origin. It is a people united by a GOD, a LAW and a KING. Many fail to appreciate the significance that under the Mosaic law ANYBODY prepared to undergo circumcision and obey all the other Mosaic Laws of God was to be treated as an equal to those born Israeli.

    Israel is the "nation" of those people who OBEY God. We who did not obey God now in Christ obey God. This is the underlying foundation of the prophecy and Promise of 1 Peter 2:9-10 :-

    1 Peter 2:9 "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; 10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."

    It is important to take note of exactly WHO "the people of God" are:-

    Judges 20:2 "And the chief of all the people, even of all the tribes of Israel, presented themselves in the assembly of the people of God, four hundred thousand footmen that drew sword. ,"

    And there in a nutshell the word of God declares that all those who obey the now spiritual Law of God and His Son, Christ Jesus, the King of Israel and of Heaven ARE Israel - AKA "the People Of God".

    There is only ONE New Covenant for Jew and Gentile alike. It is the same Covenant. For in Christ there is no difference between Jew and Gentile for in Christ both Jew and Gentile are ONE PEOPLE - the people of God - AKA Israel.

    Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. "

    We must always be careful to distinguish between what is a covenant and what is a foretelling of future events such as the return of Israel to the Promised Land after the last curse of Leviticus 26 is lifted.

    We must always remember Jesus declared He was returning to take His people to a New Earth that He has gone to prepare, not return to rule over THIS one. This Earth is marked for destruction ON HIS RETURN! It will NOT be part of the Kingdom of Heaven. It will not exist.

    2 Peter 3:4 "And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. ....... 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. "

    For ALL who are in Christ, Jew and Gentile alike, the NEW Earth is our " Promised Land"
     
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  3. There is not too much to add to what you have said Mistmann. Good post
    blessings,
    calvin
     
  4. Chaplin,

    Wow.....a really long post. I think you said it correctly and in the 1st paragraph actually when you stated..........

    "Slowly, growing believers are awakening to the serious negative consequences of believing that the Church is the direct, or even indirect, beneficiary of any of God's blessing via Israel's New Covenant. The Church is the primary beneficiary of the Everlasting Covenant!"

    I agree and it was a correct teaching. Good job.
     
  5. Major,
    I note that you have chosen to specifically requote the second paragraph of Netchaplain's post ( it is the second paragraph not the first but that is just the writer/wordsmith in me coming out.). So are you saying that you agree with NetChaplain that those who are not coming to accept or believe this particular theology are somehow NOT growing? Implying, of course, that only those who accept and believe THIS particular theology have the truth and are growing in it?

    This declares that everybody who does not believe this particular theology or teach this particular theology are believing and teaching falsely. Just seeking to clarify if this is what you are saying.
     
  6. Mistmann I was going to post this earlier, so here it is now. If I'm understanding this topic, it is about national Israelis being converted in the last of the last days, and standing alongside but apart from the gentile 'newbies' due to having their own 'New covenant'. I often wonder what a 'Barna' type survey of Jerusalem at any time up till the destruction thereof would show; 55% don't care, 30% Pharisee, 10% Sadducee, 3% Essen 2% other. My point is that when we read scripture we (well me at least) get the picture of a nation where every man woman and child pour into packed synagogues every sabbath. But that would be an unrealistic picture. So there is little chance that at the end every man woman and child of the nation of Israel will be converted; not because of the Lord's lack of ability, but because like earlier times most Israeli people would be in the don't care or don't believe basket.
    John 10:16 Jesus said it............I believe it
    from the Nkjv.
    Pretty clear to me. Jesus was talking to Jews (the 'this fold') He was talking about Gentiles( 'other sheep') But there can only be one flock if there is no separation and no distinction between sheep of differing origins all pasturing in the one fold...........The New Jerusalem.
    blesings,
    calvin
     
  7. Good pick up. I'd forgotten that verse. Blessings to you also.
     
  8. You have posted a Bible verse and I will be happy to speak to it.

    John Wesley's notes on 10:16 from the verse you have posted.
    "I have also other sheep - Which he foreknew; which are not of this fold - Not of the Jewish Church or nation, but Gentiles. I must bring them likewise - Into my Church, the general assembly of those whose names are written in heaven. And there shall be one flock - (Not one fold, a plain false print) no corrupt or divided flocks remaining. And one shepherd - Who laid down his life for the sheep, and will leave no hireling among them. The unity both of the flock and the shepherd shall he completed in its season. The shepherd shall bring all into one flock: and the whole flock shall hear the one shepherd."

    Agreed........."Jesus was talking to Jews (the 'this fold').
    Agreed........."He was talking about Gentiles( 'other sheep').

    Jesus did not die for the Jews only, although the message was "TO THE JEW FIRST (Rom. 1:16) but it was also to the Greek (Gentile).

    "This fold" refers to the believing Jews of the nation of Israel. In this day of grace in which we now live, the Church is made up of believing Jews and Gentiles and the basis for the belief is the same for both.........
    The Gospel of the the Lord Jesus Christ. All believers are members of the New Testament Church. Before Jesus came......Gentiles were without hope, a;iens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise and witout God. BUT..................

    Ephesians 2:11-18 says.........
    "Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
    For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father."

    When Jesus spoke the words......."other sheep I have which are not of this fold": the Gentiles were at that time aliens from God but Jesus changed all that when He laid down His life that "WHOSOEVER" could become a member of the family of God.
     
  9. Major,

    Netchaplain's original post postulates two seperate new covenants, one for the church and one for Israel. Both Calvin and I are making the observation that the Bible speaks of only ONE new covenant for both Jew and Gentile alike and that under this one covenant the distinction between Jew and Gentile simply does not exist.

    In your first post you sided strongly with Netchaplain's assertion that there are two new covenants one for the "gentile "church" and one for Israel. However in your latest post you are actually supporting our observation that there is only one new covenant for Jew and gentile alike. Just to clarify matters are you supporting the observation Calvin and I are making that the Bible speaks of only one new covenant or are you supporting Netchaplain's assertion that there are two new covenants.

    Obviously it is impossible to support both sides of this discussion at the same time so just wondering on which side you are currently standing as you have made seemingly conflicting posts.
     
  10. Once again no Scripture is listed.

    I am amazed tht you could not understand my latest post. It seems very clear to me.


    Comment #3 said and I quote................
    "Jesus did not die for the Jews only, although the message was "TO THE JEW FIRST (Rom. 1:16) but it was also to the Greek (Gentile).

    "This fold" refers to the believing Jews of the nation of Israel. In this day of grace in which we now live, the Church is made up of believing Jews and Gentiles and the basis for the belief is the same for both.........
    The Gospel of the the Lord Jesus Christ. All believers are members of the New Testament Church. Before Jesus came......Gentiles were without hope, a;iens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise and witout God. BUT..................

    Ephesians 2:11-18 says.........
    "Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
    For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father."
    Now what did Netchaplin say in the original post that I agreed with...............
    "I - THE EVERLASTING COVENANT:
    Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that Great Shepherd of the sheep, through the Blood of the Everlasting Covenant, make you perfect in every good work to do His will, working in you that which is well-pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen (Heb. 13:20,21).

    The Everlasting Covenant is neither between God and the Church, nor God and Israel, nor God and the Gentiles. Rather, it is between the party of the first part, "the God of peace," and the party of the second part, the "Lord Jesus."

    The conditions of this covenant were that if the Great Shepherd would lay down His life for the sheep, the Father would raise Him from among the dead. "And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the Cross." "But God raised Him from the dead ...." He was "raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father" (Phil. 2:8; Acts 13:30; Rom. 6:4).

    The Everlasting Covenant was ratified in eternity past, and fulfilled at the resurrection. It is a new covenant in respect to TIME (Calvary), and it is new in respect to KIND, i.e., between God the Father and God the Son. It is the fulfillment of Galatians 3:20: "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one."

    The Mosaic Covenant was between God and Israel, with Moses as mediator. Israel broke that covenant. "My covenant they broke, although I was an husband to them, saith the Lord" (Jer. 31:32). Hence Israel's New Covenant is unconditional--"I will." But the Everlasting Covenant is all of God--God the Father, and God the Son: "God is One."

    While neither under it, nor a part of it, the Church is the primary beneficiary of the Everlasting Covenant. "I ... make you perfect in every good work to do His will, working in you that which is well-pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ." The Church has not come to the Covenant; she is in union of life with the Mediator of all covenants!

    Israel's New Covenant is based upon the Everlasting Covenant, i.e., the Blood of the Cross."

    I really do not see how you missed the answer to your question because it is clearly here for all to see.

    But since we are here and I do have the time today allow me to post some Scriptures and speak to them about your "concerns" and once and fo all give you what I understand of the Scriptures, Israel and the church..

    Replacement theology also known as supersessionism teaches that the Church has replaced thenation of Israel regarding the plan, purpose, and promises of God. There is no biblical evidence that God has cast Israel aside, quite the opposite is true. God has made an everlasting covenant with Israel, in Genesis God made a covenant with Abraham: “And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you.” (Gen. 17:7). God said everlasting, not just for a certain time period. God promised Abraham that through his offspring all the nation shall be blessed i.e. the promised Messiah would come through the nation of Israel (Gen.3:17) from the line of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. God made another covenant through Abraham’s son Isaac:

    "No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son and you shall call his name Issac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant and with his desendandants after him"...
    (Gen. 17:19).

    The word everlasting appears 100 times in the KJV/NKJV and if God says everlasting it means everlasting i.e. forever. The replacement theology has been around for a long time, but is contradictory to what the Bible teaches. Israel and the Church are two different entities, God has not made a covenant with the Church as He did with the nation of Israel as for example the mosaic law which was conditional and involved works. The New Testament covenant is unconditional, no works, such as animal sacrifices or the keeping of dietary laws etc. We come through faith not by works. God made an unconditional covenant with Abram in Genesis 15. It was unconditional, God put Abram to sleep and walked among the animals and it was God that upheld the covenant without any works or doings of Abram. Please note, at that time his name was still Abram not Abraham which came later when God promised him that he would be the father of a great nation which were the twelve tribe of Israel. Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness.

    We as the bride of Christ come through faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross. It is His righteousness that is imputed onto every believer. God’s sovereign plan of salvation. We are saved by His grace through faith without works according to Eph. 2:8-10. It is true and documented in the Bible that Israel disobeyed God many times, which caused them many afflictions, enslaved to Egypt for 400 years, captivity in Babylon for 70 years and much strives and wars with the neighboring nations. They rejected Jesus as their Messiah at His first coming, which resulted ultimately in the destruction of the temple in 70 AD by Titus and the fall of Jerusalem which caused them to exist as a nation, resulting them to be dispersed all over the world. Because of their rejection of Jesus/Yahshua as Messiah, the Gentile nations became heirs, with that God fulfilled the promise He made to Abraham, that, through him all nations will be blessed:

    “For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery as I have briefly written already, by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ, which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,…” (Eph. 3:1-6).
    God wanted the nation of Israel to be a shinning light before the pagan nations, He chose them not because they were special people but because He loved them and keeps His promises:

    “The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples; “but because the LORD loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers, the LORD has brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you from the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. “Therefore know that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and mercy for a thousand generations with those who love Him and keep His commandments; “and He repays those who hate Him to their face, to destroy them. He will not be slack with him who hates Him; He will repay him to his face.”(Deu. 7:7-10)
    Israel did not keep the commandments, and they even went in to idolatry, something the LORD hates, they failed miserably, despite all this, God has not cast them out or broken His covenant with them. Currently we are in what is called by many the Church age, which began at the time of Pentecost with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the believers. (Acts 2). God is using the Church to preach the gospel of salvation in Christ and Him alone. The Church was chosen by God for a specific time period i.e. Church age, to preach the gospel and reach the lost, the church was grafted in. (Rom 11:17) The apostle Paul certainly did not believe that Israel was cast out by God, he wrote:

    I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, “LORD, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”(Rom. 11:1-4).

    God has always preserve a Jewish remnant. One of the biggest evidence of God not breaking His covenant is manifested in the re-birth of the nation of Israel on May 14th 1948. After almost 2000 years of Israel not existing, God brought them back into the land as prophesied by the Prophet Ezekiel in chapter 36. The Jews are back in the land, as one nation/kingdom not two as it was before the dispersion, ( 2 southern tribes Judah and Benjamin and the 10 northern tribes) they speak one common which is Hebrew and the shekel is their currency. Today Israel is one of the most fruitful areas in the Middle East, they are the biggest vegetable and fruit exporters in the region. Israel is on the news daily and Jerusalem with the temple mount has been a sore point to many nations and has become the epicenter of the world. Israel is surrounded by many hostile Islamic nations, and one day the war of Gog and Magog will take place as described in Ez. 38 & 39.

    Most scholars, and I am certainly not one, but I do believe that at the time of the rapture of the believers in Christ, the church age will end and will usher in a 7 year tribulation period on the earth spoken of in Daniel chapter 9. in that 70 weeks were determined for Israel, 69 weeks or 483 years or 173880 days have been fulfilled, from the commandment by King Artaxerxes in 445BC to rebuild the walls and Jerusalem and with Jesus riding into Jerusalem April 6 AD 32 as prophesied by Zechariah:

    “Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation, Lowly and riding on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey.”(Zech. 9:9).

    The Messiah was cut off as prophesied in Dan. 9:24-27; i.e the crucifixion and finished work of Christ upon the cross. This leaves a seven year/one week period which has not been fulfilled, commonly referred to as Jacobs troubles or the seven years of great tribulation. It is in these seven years of tribulation that God will once again turn to Israel and they will recognize that Jesus is their promised Messiah, and they will embrace Him as such. The tribulation period will be a time of trouble like the world has never seen before or ever will again, God will pour out His wrath upon the unbelieving world and Christ will come again with all the believers, which is the second coming, this time He will come not as a lamb but as the Lion from the tribe of Judah. Christ will judge the nations, and the once who made it through the seven year tribulation period who did not take the mark of the beast will enter into the millennial reign of Christ here upon the earth. This is the separation of the sheep from the goats.

    “I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.” Rev 20:4-6

    Many Jews will receive Christ as their Lord and Savior during the great tribulation, many Jews and Gentiles will have to die/martyred, but because they have not worshiped or bowed down to the Antichrist , they will be saved and enter into the kingdom of God and have everlasting life. God has not cast out the Jews, neither has He forgotten them, God keeps His promises, to us as Christians and to His chosen people; Israel. God has always preserved for Himself a remnant.

    As true followers of Jesus, we must stand with Israel and love them, they may not have yet embraced Yeshuah as Messiah Jesus, but in due time God will open their eyes. We should bless them and not cast them aside.

    Now if all of this still leaves you with questions, then I can no longer help you in your quest for knowledge. Since this clearly gives anyone all the answers concerning what I understand, from now on please post the Bible verses you would like to dicuss and I will reply when I can. God bless you in all you do.

    “I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.” Gen 12:3
     
  11. Major,

    I was asking you if you could clarify whether or not you were supporting the idea that there are TWO new Covenants as Netchaplain posted, or only ONE New covenant as Kevin and I were explaining. No scripture was required as I was asking for clarification on what YOU were saying, not what the Bible says. I know what the Bible says, it was what you were saying that was not clear.

    I note your reply is exceedingly long but still sheds little light on what YOU are actually declaring.

    Galatians 3:28-29 clearly says "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. "

    It is clear therefore that all who are in Christ (Jew and Gentile alike with no distinction) inherit the unilateral Abrahamic Covenent the Lord made with Abraham and in the Lord's eyes are ALL children of Abraham. I note you refer to the Abrahamic Covenent several times but that supports OUR case, not the one put forward by Netchaplain. Galatians 3:28-29 refutes any claim that the Abrahamic Covenant is for the Jews but not the "Church". Indeed it declares that in the Lord's eyes ALL who are in the church of Christ Jesus are the children of Abraham and heirs to the promise He made to Abraham. That means that in the Lord's eyes he sees us ALL as decendents of Abraham, Jew and Gentile alike. And as you pointed out several times in your post The Lord has made only ONE Covenant with those who are in HIS Church. But all who are in His church the Lord regards as the ONE family of Abraham. There is NO SEPERATION in the Lord's eyes between those of Israel who believe BY the New Covenant and those Gentile believers who have been grafted into the Israel BY the New Covenant. They are ALL the descendents of Abraham and those who are not in Christ, in the eyes of the Lord are NOT descendents of Abraham.

    Matt 3:8-10 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. 10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

    So despite the length of your post it supports what Calvin and I are saying but your original post adamantly supports the OPPOSITE view put forward by Netchaplain. And through it all you have still made no clear declaration of which view YOU support. Your first post declares support for Netchaplain's view of two separate Covenants but all your actual arguments effectively support the view put forward by Calvin and I and disprove the view put forward by Netchaplain.

    I am at a loss why you seem so very reluctant to simply declare YOU support the view there are two seperate new covenants, one for Jews and one for a "not Jews" church or the view there is only one new covenant for Jews and gentiles alike. It is a simple declaration to make.
     
  12. I will post it again for you..............YES we are spiritual Jews when we come to Christ in His New Testament church.
    NO...God has not done away with the Jews and what was promised to them God will give them.

    The church has not replaced Israel!

    I do understand that is what you are working toward.

    You just said.............
    "There is NO SEPERATION in the Lord's eyes between those of Israel who believe BY the New Covenant and those Gentile believers who have been grafted into the Israel BY the New Covenant. They are ALL the descendents of Abraham and those who are not in Christ, in the eyes of the Lord are NOT descendents of Abraham."

    Jew and Gentile come to God on the same basis today and that is faith ion the Lord Jesus Christ. I think that is about the 4th time I have stated that. The Church is the primary beneficiary of the Everlasting Covenant!

    That however does not do away with the Old Covenant. Do we have to keep the Law, NO. But we certainly do not want to murder, steal and lie etc.
     
  13. You haven't clarified your stance yet BUT if you are declaring there is only ONE New testament for Jews and Gentiles alike then you are siding with our observation.

    HOWEVER if you are still supporting netchaplain's view you have missed the significance of what you have just said because you have just quashed HIS argument totally.

    Ntchaplain's contention is that there is one new covenant for the Church and one new covenant for Israel who ARE the DESCENDENTS of ABRAHAM.

    What you have effectively shown is that Netchaplain is contending that there are two new covenants. One for those the Lord regards as the DESCENDENTS of ABRAHAM and a separate covenant for ...... the DESCENDENTS of ABRAHAM.:oops:

    The point you seem to be missing is that the Church of Jesus Christ is not REPLACING Israel ..... it IS Israel. WE who are in Christ do not REPLACE Israel, we JOIN Israel. OUR King IS ...The King of the Jews and the King of ISRAEL.
     
  14. I can not be held responsible for your lack of understanding. Lets just be in disagreement and part ways.
     
  15. This is not an "agree to disagree" comment, it is a "Major is right and Mistmann cannot understand anything" comment.

    This is what I meant in the other thread when I said if you really do not want trouble then stop doing the things that create it.

    I am always happy to agree to disagree. That is why I am always reminding people that THEY must decide for themselves who/what they will and will not believe.

    More than happy to part ways on that note Major.
     
  16. I apologyze for reposting this section but wanted to zero in on it.

    THE EVERLASTING COVENANT -- The Everlasting Covenant of Hebrews 13:20,21 was ratified in eternity past between the Father and the Son, and was fulfilled at the resurrection of Christ.
    The Everlasting Covenant is neither between God and the Church, nor God and Israel, nor God and the Gentiles. Rather, it is between the party of the first part, "the God of peace,"and the party of the second part, the "Lord Jesus."
    The conditions of this covenant were that if the Great Shepherd would lay down His life for the sheep, the Father would raise Him from among the dead. "And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the Cross." "But God raised Him from the dead ...." He was "raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father" (Phil. 2:8; Acts 13:30; Rom. 6:4).
    The Everlasting Covenant was ratified in eternity past, and fulfilled at the resurrection. It is a new covenant in respect to TIME (Calvary), and it is new in respect to KIND, i.e., between God the Father and God the Son. It is the fulfillment of Galatians 3:20: "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one."

    From the time the Spirit was given at Penticost, the everlasting covenant is now the only way to salvation for Jew or Gentile. This is the blood covenant of Christ in Mat 26:28. The New Covenant of Israel (Ezek 36:27), which will involve unsaved Jews who come to Christ, will ocurr when they fianly belive in Christ after seeing Him and God initiating the above Ezekeal prophecy, during the Millinnum.
     
  17. Agreed..........parting complete.
     
  18. Hi NetChaplain,

    The problem with the two covenant concept is that it does not recognize that the Jews come to Christ under the SAME covenant as we do. There is only ONE way and ONE truth and nobody comes to the Father except by Christ Jesus. Whether past, present or future the only way Jews can be saved is the same way we are saved. Believe in Christ Jesus, repent and be baptized. The Jews do not have a separate path to the Father. We all follow the SAME path by way of the SAME covenant.

    The NATION of Israel will not be saved, a REMNANT of Israel will be saved along with those Gentiles who have been grafted in in the place of those unrepentant Jews who reject Christ and so are cut off from the people of God which is now those in Christ. There is only one path to Heaven, ONE MEDIATOR, ONE covenant. NOBODY comes to the Father except through Christ Jesus and His ONE sacrifice for WHOSOEVER will believe in Him and wash themselves in the blood of that ONE sacrifice..

    There is no "back door" entrance to Heaven for the Jewish nation, past, present or future.

    Regards Misty
     
  19. Hi Mistman! The New Testament (Covenant) in Christ's blood is not the same New Covenant for the Israelites, hence, two new covenants.

    "For this is my blood of the new testament (covenant), which is shed for many for the remission of sins" (Mat 26:28). This New Covenant is now for Jews and Gentiles.

    Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah" (Jer 31:31; Ezek 36:27). Only Jews will partake of this one, which is the Abrahamic Covenant because it's forever.. ("And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. and for his decendants" Gen 17:7

    This Covenant hasn't ocurred yet!
     
  20. Hi Netchaplain.

    The passages you quote at the end of your comment might APPEAR to indicate there is a separate comment for Israel. However the words of Galatians 3:28 make it unquestionably clear these verses are speaking of the same covenant by which we are saved for it says:-

    Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. "

    Note that the covenant those passages you quote (the Abrahamic covenant) is between God and Abraham and his seed and in Galatians 3:28 we have the declaration that ALL who are in Christ, Jew and Gentile alike ARE the seed of Abraham.

    It is without question that those passages you refer to and Galatians 3:28 are refering to the SAME covenant, not different covenants. The word of the Lord declares unequivocally that it is those who are in Christ, be they Jew or Gentile previously, that are the seed of Abhaham and the heirs of the ABRAHAMIC covenant, nobody else. ALL passages speak of the one and only covenant, not two seperate covenants.
     

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