The Two Goats Of The Day Of Atonement

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Brother Paul, Aug 17, 2014.

  1. The Two Goats

    In Leviticus 16 when we read of the atonement ritual we read of two identical goats…one upon whom the sins of the people are laid who is then cast out of the camp to die and the other who being sacrificed on the altar has his blood sprinkled on the mercy seat and upon the many people.

    The Bible says one is for the LORD and the other for Azazel and this has caused two views so I want to know how each of you see this…the Hebrew word “aza’zel” means “scapegoat” and we here in the west have our cognitive associations with that term…for example, Hitler used the Jewish people as a scapegoat and got the anger and suspicions of the masses roused against them when in fact they had done nothing wrong. But is that what the Bible means when it uses this term? Hmmm?

    So my question is related to the two views…

    One is that both goats are part of the same atonement and that Christ fulfills both roles as Leviticus 16:21-22 tells us the sins of the people were laid on the scapegoat and then he was cast out of the camp to die and the other makes atonement by the shedding/sprinkling/covering of blood…

    The second view (and well supported by many and by their interpretation of scripture) says that only the goat slain on the altar represents Christ and the goat “for azazel” represents Satan who being the cause of all the sins ever will be cast out eternally…

    Any thoughts? Or is this too deep to be bothered with (I mean it does not affect our salvation) so if no one wants to think this out that’s fine…I can somewhat defend each side so I will throw in curve balls now and then to promote discussion…

    Thanks for even hearing about this as some never have but you bump into the controversy if you speak with some Jewish people, even those who are messianic…


    Brother Paul
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  2. Interesting thoughts. I've never heard of the devil being a scapegoat... I have reservations about that because the scriptures say our sins were laid on Jesus, not the devil. Which means that Jesus fulfilled all parts of the sacrifice. Another thought is that the Day of Atonement has yet to be fulfilled and may yet be a prophetic event after He returns.
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  3. I think both are clearly Christ in that all that we see in the law, every redemptive picture we see in the law is a type or shadow of His Great work.
  4. I agree the day of Atonement is at the second coming...but maybe the role of the scapegoat was fulfilled on the cross and the blood was sprinkled for the nations but the full purpose or effect of the sacrifice is not epitomized or actualized until He comes...????
  5. In the book of Enoch Azazel is a personage (a fallen spirit)....maybe that's where they get the idea????
  6. Interesting topic, Paul. Azazel, to my understanding is the name of a fallen angel (also a god worshipped by ancient people). The idea that comes to mind is: give unto caesar what is his and to God what is God's.
  7. #7 Brother Paul, Aug 18, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2014
    It is interesting!I had a debate on Isaiah 52:13 - 53:12 with a Jewish person from Israel an it brought out many subtle shades of difference in interpretation of many additional passages. This one (Lev 16) came up because of the linguistic implications of verses 21-22...the main purpose of the debate was "Does this song of Isaiah tell us of Messiah or not" (He of course believes Isaiah speaks of Israel and Leviticus 16 symbolic of the devil)

    In the Masoretic it reads "...all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions, and even all their sins; and he shall put them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of an appointed man into the wilderness.

    22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land which is cut off; and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.

    His interpretation is that at the Judgment, God takes all this and blames this on ha'satan and casts him away forever....he then quotes our Revelation saying sin and death are cast with ha'satan into the lake of fire...

    My thoughts were here are two innocents (without blemish) though chosen as aspects/shadows of the one action of atonement and the purpose of one is carry "all their transgressions, and all their sins" and to "bear all their iniquities"...

    He used this to show the language of our debate passage does NOT apply to Messiah

    So I just wanted to get some feed back from our camp....but I must admit I can see his side as well....but I appreciate any and all comments and insights

    In His love

  8. Who/How is the man appointed? Would the 2 goats represent the 1st & 2nd coming?
  9. Be careful using Jews as authentic source because they do not have the light of the gospel and it is hidden from them. Also they are trained how to answer ANYTHING that points to Jesus as the Messiah - just look at what happen to their #1 rabbi, Yitzhak Kaduri, who was 108 years old when he died. He said Yehoshua (long version of Yeshua) - Jesus, is the Messiah. The thing is, he was a kabbalist and so he wrote it in a cryptic note anyone can read. They posted it on their site before they decoded it. Once they did, it was too late yet they deny it all. Even the Israeli news posted it on all of their sites and quickly took it down once they realized what he had wrote. Ten of his personal students are Christians! Here's the note in his handwriting. The red are the name of Yehoshua (יהושוע):


    It's translated:

    Concerning the letter abbreviation of the Messiah’s name, He will lift the people and prove that his word and law are valid.

    This I have signed in the month of mercy,

    Yitzhak Kaduri

    Here's the transliteration and original of the bolded sentence above:

    Yarim Ha’Am Veyokhiakh Shedvaro Vetorato Omdim

    ירים העם ויוכיח שדברו ותורתו עומדים

    He wrote the note and told them not top open the letter until a year after his death. He died a couple of weeks later. Why is this so amazing? It's like if Billy Graham declared
    Muhammad the Messiah to the Christians! It has so rocked the Orthodox community, 100's are getting saved!
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  10. Sorry... didn't mean to hijack your thread...
  11. glad to see some Jews are in study of the book of Revelation...but like Ab said..they are blind to Christ
  12. Only sacrificial animals are a type of the anti-typical Lamb of God, Jesus. The Scapegoat was not sacrificed, therefore does not represent Him, but Satan. The High Priest would bear the sin before God as the Intercessor between the sinner and God. The Lamb of God paid the penalty for sin which is death, but as the High Priest, He intercedes for us. Finally, when His work of Intercession is over and He removes His High Priestly robes and puts on His Kingly robes in order to return for us, He will transfer the sins of the redeemed from the sanctuary to Satan where the very record of sin will cease to be along with the devil himself.

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