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The Truth about the Cross

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Juk, Feb 21, 2015.

  1. I am here to tell you guys the truth about the cross. Jesus was most likely not crucified on a cross, and He was more likely to have been crucified on a stake or a tree.
    "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree" (Acts 5:30).
    "And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre"(Acts 13:30).
    "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed "(I Peter 2:24).
    etc.

    The cross was used by Egyptians in their paganism many years before Christianity. It was a symbol for the "great mother goddess". As reformation.org says, "Jesus came to fulfill the Old Testament. There are NO SUCH words as CROSS, CRUCIFY, or CRUCIFIED in the Old Testament—except in the new perversions!!" (paragraph 5).

    Before you go ahead and say, "beware of false teachers, Juk", let me give some more reasons as to why I believe this.

    I wanted to get some crosses for my room a couple of days ago. They had Bible verses on them, and I liked them. My mom was the one buying them with my gift card. She said that she was not going to buy them, because she did not like them. I learned the truth about crosses the next day. As you can see, God was preventing me from buying the crosses, and He want me to know the truth about them.
    Another reason: I was planning to make this post yesterday, but I got grounded just about twenty minutes before I was able to do it. I think that Satan was trying to prevent me from making this post (he did a bad job).
    Finally, I was trying to confirm the verses above with my "bible" the NLT version. It replaced the word "tree" with "cross". The first thing I thought was the word "corrupted". So I looked up if the NLT version was perverted. Lo and behold, it was. It perverts many of the original Scripture. I realized that God wanted me to spend my money on a new Bible. I am getting the King James Version. Another thing to mention is that my gift card expires in two days, and I was contemplating on what to get with it for a really long time. Since Christmas, actually.

    As you can see, there are many reasons why the cross is a pagan symbol, and should not be used. I also have these personal experiences to confirm it. Please open your eyes, and try to understand.
     
  2. Juk, you're young but you say "I am here to tell you guys the truth". No, you're here to learn the truth. Don't presume to lecture, teach, or enlighten people who are twice, three times, or four times your age. You are in no position to teach.

    This stake/cross issue is straight out of Jehovah's Witnesses teachings. Is every plus sign a pagan symbol? Is every time two lines cross a pagan symbol? No. No, it isn't.

    Jesus carried the cross piece to the upright stake or tree (later carried for him), and then his arms were stretched out onto the cross piece. When you put a cross piece on a stake or tree you get the familiar "cross". It matters not whether anyone thinks it's a pagan symbol; the fact is that this is how the Romans did crucifixions. This is a matter of historical record.

    Personal experiences do not trump scripture or history. Remember you're not talking to toddlers here.
     
    Waggles and calvin say Amen and like this.
  3. Amen!
     
    calvin likes this.
  4. When Christ spoke to Constantine, He said "In hoc signo vinces" (by this sign you shall conquer), and Constantine has all his soldiers draw crosses on their shields. Why would Christ tell Constantine to use crosses as symbols if the "cross" was not important to Him?
     
  5. How do you know that Constantine wasn't lying?
     
  6. 1. Constantine may or may not have seen that vision, but I put no importance on it since Jesus never said anything about physical conquest, but rather that his kingdom was not of this world.

    2. Jesus being crucified is what matters, not whether the shape of the torture instrument happened to match a pagan one. Did you know that early Christians sometimes drew a fish in the sand as a code to identify other believers? Yet the fish has clear pagan symbology. Does that make the early Christians guilty of using pagan symbols? Of course not.

    You need to focus on the essentials and just read the Bible for now. You don't have the experience to recognize either falsehood or poor exegesis.
     
  7. Age does not always mean wisdom. And how am I supposed to learn the truth from anyone or anything other than the Bible? The views will always conflict with each other, whether true or not. Are you here to teach? If you are here to teach, why can't I teach as well? I have some experience with the Bible and Christianity as well. http://www.quora.com/Chris-Pierre-3/answers. I know more than you think I do. I am not always here to learn.

    And did you read those verses? They were Scripture as well, and they support my point. Personal experience does not trump history. This is the same history that proves that the Egyptians used the cross in their idol worship. It's not about whether anyone thinks it's a pagan symbol, it's that the historical evidence backs that up. And finally, just because Jesus died on the cross (if that's true) does not mean that it should be the symbol for Christianity, considering that it had pagan roots.
     
  8. Why don't I have the experience? You must think that I am like all other kids, playing video games all day, or going on social media. But I am not like that. I research topics on the Bible, and I know how to connect the dots.
     
  9. There certainly are people who never learn anything in spite of the number of their years. But twelve years is not enough to consider yourself mature or learned. Many of us here have studied the Bible for over 40 years, and seen every false belief out there. You simply haven't had time, and you think that something like this issue of the cross must have escaped the notice or study of millions of Christians who have come before you. That's not how you'll learn.

    Yes, study the Bible. But God expects elders to teach the young, not the young to teach the elders. Do you know all the historical context of the Bible? The original languages? The customs? No. You need teachers to help explain the Bible and all the layers of context. If that were not true, then why would any of us need YOU to teach us?

    Let me say that again: If you don't need anything but the Bible, then neither do we.

    You cannot teach because you haven't been around long enough. As I said, some of us have been studying these things for many more decades than you've even been alive. Maybe I know more than you think I do.

    Why do you insult me by asking if I've read those verses? Do you honestly think I haven't? Really? No, they do NOT support your point.
     
  10. And you must think that you've discovered something millions of other Christians have not, and that I am stupid or ignorant.

    Pride goes before a fall, youngster.
     
    Waggles likes this.
  11. Alright, you got me. But I did think that God wanted me to write this forum post.
     
  12. I wasn't trying to insult you, I just got really angry for some reason. I'm sorry if it came out to look like that.
     
  13. Ok.

    But here's a suggestion: Next time you come across something like this, post your thread as more of a "what do you think about this" than "let me tell you what no one else in history has discovered". I think you were angry because you didn't get the response you expected.
     
    dUmPsTeR likes this.
  14. You are right. And I will use your suggestions. Thanks.
     
  15. Glad to help. :cool:
     
    Juk likes this.
  16. "
    42 When he was twelve years old, they went up to the festival, according to the custom. 43 After the festival was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. 44 Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. 45 When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. 46 After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers."

    I'd be curious to hear what you would say to Jesus when He was at that age.. :)
     
    Big Moose, Fish Catcher Jim, Cturtle and 1 other person say Amen and like this.
  17. #17 Relentless, Feb 21, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2015
    sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers."

    Jesus impressed the adults with his insight and intelligence. Juk presented a well-known cultic teaching.
    Jesus asked questions. Juk played teacher. (and then apologized)

    Are you honestly saying that all 12 yr. olds should be our teachers? Or should we go by what they say?
    And are you saying any 12 yr. old should talk down to their elders, especially when they burst through the door with a false teaching?

    Tell me what your point is.
     
  18. Also, WITM...

    As a moderator, are you saying that any kid that presents cultic teachings should be respected and be treated as a teacher over adults? That we should stroke the ego rather than correcting the error?

    Tell me now, because if moderators are going to condone that sort of thing, and ask sarcastic questions of anyone who objects, then I will leave your board immediately.
     
  19. He IS Jesus, capable of anything.
     
  20. Trust me, you don't want all twelve year olds to be our teachers. Especially not the kids in my generation. All they talk about is sex...
     
    Waggles likes this.

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