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The Trinity

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Vaccinius, May 26, 2012.

  1. THE TRINITY

    Seed and growth and harvest is
    Father, Spirit, Son – and this
    shows us that the Father dies,
    dies just for the Son to rise.

    Heart and blood and body is
    Father, Spirit, Son – and this
    shows us that the Son too dies,
    being form, for life to rise.

    Heaven, firmament and earth –
    Father, Spirit, Son as worth –
    shows the Holy Spirit's kind,
    light and rain the holy mind.

    Pictures three reveal the case
    for the human kind to face,
    for the human kind to mount.
    It, the thing, is to count!
     
  2. Hi Vaccinius,

    I'm not big on 'doctrines', including the Trinity; but at the same time, I agree it has a purpose. Particularly if people are able to accept that Jesus really is the Son of God, and that He and the Father are one. But then it begs the question: if Jesus really is the Son of God, why don't more people obey Him? Could it be a case of us living in a world where lots of people shout "Lord, Lord", but no one really wants to obey His commands? (Matthew 7:21-27) Something to think about.
     
  3. If we grasp The Trinity, we understand why Jesus died. We also see we can be in the name of God in three different ways. We also see there is life after death. [​IMG]
     
  4. Your question is.............

    "But then it begs the question: if Jesus really is the Son of God, why don't more people obey Him?"

    Yes, that is a good question. The answer is CHOICE. God gives man a choice to come to Him by faith so that mans choice is rooted in LOVE.
     
    1an likes this.
  5. Hi Vaccinius,

    I don't think anyone needs to fully understand the Trinity doctrine in order to see that there is life after death. But I do appreciate that it is an important concept in terms of grasping Jesus' prime position in the Godhead.

    Major, I agree that choice is a reason why more people don't obey Jesus. But, I guess what I failed to communicate when I wrote my post, is that I'm angered by the fact that more professing Christians don't obey Jesus. They "praise His name", go to church each Sunday, and even contribute faithfully to the weekly tithes and offerings; but they can't tell you fifteen things that Jesus commanded His followers to do. Do you see a problem with that? I know I do.
     
  6. Father God and the Holy Spirit are, just as the Son was and still is... Spirit. Man is Spiritually Eternal also. We learn this from studying the Bible. If you will, just, learn to use the Nave's Topical for subject study you will not go astray. (2Tim. 2:15)
     
    Major likes this.
  7. Yes my friend, I do understand.

    But our salvation is not based on what we obey or do not obey. It is based on GRACE through faith.

    If our salvation was based on whether or not we obey Christ, how many people do you think would then be saved???
     
    1an likes this.
  8. Heb 5:9 "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"
     
    gemma likes this.
  9. Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: "
     
    gemma likes this.
  10. No one can be saved by obedience of the commands of God, because no one does good and not sin - James 2:10,11, Ecclesiastes 7:20, which means that no body can be perfect 100 percent all the time. That is why, no matter how hard we try to obey God all the time, at some point we sin, even if we do not like to. But by the grace of God, because of what Jesus did, his death and resurrection, gives us free salvation as a gift. Yet we called to try by the help of the Holy Spirit, to obey God, all the time, even if we fail sometimes, because of the sinful nature living in our body - Galatians 5:16,17.

    We can not be saved by obedience, but we are saved in order to obey God. Obedience proves that we are saved - Matthew 7:16-20, John 15:1-8,16.
     
  11. I am glad you clarified your previous post Major. It is important that we not give people the impression that salvation does not require obedience to Christ regardless of how imperfectly we may do it. Salvation does not require perfect obedience for our previous sins alone would prevent that, but it does require us to acknowledge that disobedience IS a sin that requires us to seek forgiveness and help to overcome.

    REPENTENCE itself is to turn away from disobedience (sin) which can only mean turning to obedience. If we then continue willfully in disobedience then we bear witness against ourselves that there has been no real REPENTENCE. For instance if we continue to repeatedly behave contrary to the word and command of God then we bear witness against ourselves that we are not in Christ.

    Rather it is our obedience that bears witness to our true faith. Our faith will not be judged by what we say but by what we DO and how we behave. That is it is our WORKS and not our words that bear witness to our faith. That is why the word of God declares that faith WITHOUT works is dead (that is, without any value to salvation). It is by our works and obedience that our repentence and faith is proven to be true.

    And this makes kweli tu's question a very important and valuable one indeed. If you want to know if a person is really in Christ or not look to how they BEHAVE and how they treat the WRITTEN word and command of God and test what they say against what is WRITTEN. Just because a person may BELIEVE they are in Christ does not mean they are. Jesus Himself told us that in the passage I quoted previously.
     
    gemma likes this.
  12. If we truely love Jesus - we will strive to obey Him and hate that which causes us to sin. We cannot love two masters. If we love the world and the lusts of the world the love of Christ is not in us.

    Unbelievers disobey Christ and do it in blissfull ignorance or even sometimes blatent willfull ignorance.
    Christians disobey Christ and hate it - they strive for repentance.

    Faith brings salvation - obedience is the outworking of that faith.
     
    Major likes this.
  13. Misstmann..........
    There really was no clarification needed my friend. It is a very simple concept which almost all believers have a grasp of.

    Ephesians 2:8 could not be any clearer.......
    "For by GRACE are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God Not of works lest any man should boast".

    Faith is the instrument of salvation not obedience. Spurgeon says..."It is not thy joy in Christ that saves thee, it is Christ. It is not thy hope in Christ that saves thee; it is Christ. It is not even faith in Christ that saves thee allthought that be the instrument which does. It is Christ's blood and merit. THat is where the power is and that is where the salvation is."

    All Christians were dead. lost in sin and trespasses and it was God who saved us by His grace, raising us now to heavenly places in Christ Jesus and we will someday be in heaven displaying the grace of God.

    Now, NONE of this depends on what we do, neither does it reast on our merit....."FOR BY GRACE YE HAVE BEEN SAVED". Grace is the favor of God bestowed on the unworthy and undeserving. Our salvation rests completely upon the grace of God and not upon our faithfulness or our obedience. IF salvation required our obedience then we are adding our works to the work of Christ on the cross.

    IF we say we must obay Jesus in order to be saved or to stay saved we are then actually adding what we do to the salvation experience. Should we be obedient......absolutly!!!! Please read Kevin's comment #12 as it speaks clearly to the item in question and I agree 100%. The problem is that we cannot be obedient!!!!

    IF a person says he stays saved by remaining obedient to God, then isn't he saying that he is maintaining his salvation by being good? YES, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE SAYING. As I said, it is a good thing to be faithful and obedient to God. It is a good thing to obey God. But is this how we are saved or stay saved? Does our salvation rest in anyway on how good we are? That is my point here and differenace with Misstmann.

    For me, this is works for salvation. This kind of theology where we must "maintain salvation" is the same as that held by the the Mormon church, and the Jehovah's Witnesses churches .

    And, there is another problem.
    James 2:10..........
    "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

    Gal. 3:10...............
    "For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.'”

    Then something else to think about is that if anyone were to try and maintain his salvation by being faithful/good, and obedient, is he then required to keep the whole law?

    I believe that those who seek to remain faithful and obedient to God in order to stay saved would say that they are not trying to maintain their salvation by their works, their faithfulness, their obedience. But, isn't a law an instruction given by God that has a punishment for disobeying it? God commands everyone everywhere to repent, Acts 17:30. In Exodus 20, God commands that we believe in him. Can it be said that the command to believe and repent are laws since disobeying them has penalties? Do you see the problem?
     
  14. "Unto all them that obey him".

    What is obedience?

    A crowd of people had gathered and asked Jesus....."What shall we do that we might work the works of God" (John 6:28).

    Jesus said to them......."This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent". (John 6:29).

    Do you want to obey God????? Then TRUST Christ for salvation, and only Christ. That is what is being said here.
     
  15. I agree. Thank you, Lord, for this FACT.

    "For by GRACE you have been saved through FAITH; and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God; not as result of WORKS, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for GOOD WORKS, which God PREPARED BEFOREHAND so that we would WALK IN THEM." (Ephesians 2:8-10}

    Salvation unto God and obedience unto God are two separate subjects, but they are not mutually exclusive!

    BTW...I already love this site! So "sharpen-on" my friends - for His glory and our good!
     
    Major likes this.

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