'The traditions which ye have been taught'

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Complete, Jan 16, 2016.

  1. 'Therefore, brethren, stand fast,
    and hold the traditions which ye have been taught,
    whether by word, or our epistle.'

    (2Thess 2:15)

    Hello there,

    Wouldn't it have been wonderful to be party to all that Paul said, as well as to what he wrote? For just what are the 'traditions' spoken of in the verse quoted above, which the Thessalonians had been taught by him?

    Our Lord spoke against the traditions upheld by the Pharisees in Matt. 15:3 (Mar. 7:9), saying that in keeping them, they 'transgress the commandment of God', and made the word of God 'of none effect': and in Matt. 15:6 (& Mark 7:8,9) He gives an example of that. This was in response to the Pharisees criticism of the disciples for not keeping the' tradition of the elders', by eating bread with unwashed hands. Peter also in his first epistle (1:18) speaks of the traditions received from their 'fathers' as 'vain conversation '.

    Again, Paul who himself testified in Galatians 1:14 that he had been 'zealous of the traditions of my Fathers,' also warned in Col, 2:8 against 'the tradition of men', which were not, 'after Christ'.

    So, just what were the traditions which the Thessalonians received from Paul?

    'Now we command you, brethren,
    in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
    that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly,
    and not after the tradition which he received of us. '

    (2 Thess 3:6)

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
  2. Indeed it would have been great. Yet, we're not missing anything because we have the Holy Spirit to teach us if we learn to listen. The things that God gave Paul He'll gladly share with us too. I feel too many Christians don't even know the written word of God well enough to need more, or even know that there is much more. (I'm speaking of my own experience.) Jesus said these signs will follow His believers and many claim "that was added later and not part of the original" so I remind them that Paul said the same thing in 1 Cor 4:19 and 1 Thess 1:5. The power of God is for all His obedient children, Luke 10:18-20. When those that say it's for the apostles only I remind them of the 70 that did it too in Luke 10:1. There is indeed so much more, and it's there for the taking. :D
     
  3. Hello @Abdicate,

    Thank you for responding. Yes, we do have the Holy Spirit to teach us. Praise God!

    Concerning what you say about 'the power' that Paul and the other Apostles were endowed with: and the empowerment of the seventy spoken of in Luke 10:18-20, I do believe that those were special endowments. What Paul and the other apostles did were spoken of as 'signs' of their apostleship in 2 Cor. 12:12 & Rom. 15:18,19, 1 Cor.9:18, weren't they?

    Yet God's power towards all believers is exceedingly great, isn't it? Like the power with which He raised Christ from the dead: and He works in us, both to will and to do of His good pleasure (Phil 2:13).

    Praise His Name!

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris

     
  4. #4 Complete, Jan 16, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2016
    'But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you,
    brethren beloved of the Lord,
    because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation
    through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
    Whereunto he called you by our gospel,
    to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    Therefore, brethren, stand fast,
    and hold the traditions which ye have been taught,
    whether by word, or our epistle.
    Now our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and God, even our Father,
    Which hath loved us,
    and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
    Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.'

    (2Thess. 2:13-17)

    Hello again,

    The word, 'tradition', summons up ominous thoughts for me, because of the warnings given in Scripture concerning the tradition of the Pharisees, which both Paul and Peter knew very well (Gal. 1:13,14; 1 Pet. 1:18). Even in this present day, I believe that Satan still blinds the eyes and veils the truth from believers as well as unbelievers, by traditions heard, believed and practiced, yet not endorsed by Scripture. It is these which cause division and strife very often among believers, and makes void the word of God. It is something which we all need to be aware of, and pray to be redeemed from. For no progress in the knowledge of the Truth can be made when we are in bondage to such things.

    We need to 'rightly divide' between what is true and what is false, don't we? This is why I ask the question, concerning what the traditions were that Paul refers to here in Thessalonians?

    They are enshrined in Philippians 4:9, too, aren't they?

    'Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do:
    and the God of peace shall be with you.
    '
    (I feel a study coming on :))

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
  5. Where does it say that it's not for us? Cover to cover the word of God says otherwise. The 70 got it yet we only count 12 apostles (14 if you count Paul and Matthias). It kinda blows the whole "it's for the apostles only" lying excuse from the devil, doesn't it. I think it's easier to say it's not for use because the demonstration of power isn't being manifested and instead of finding the reason why, Mat 17:19-21, most just give up trying and adjust their theology so they're not convicted by not having the power of God in their lives. I know it's for us because I have witnessed healings, prophecy and miracles. I'm sadden that you haven't experienced God's power and might in your life. If it happens to me, it certainly can happen for anyone.

    Mark 11:24 (KJV)
    Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive [them], and ye shall have [them]. ​

    I'm still learning, even after experiencing the power for myself, now I want to be used more. So this verse above is my meditation. To get there comes at a price. Most are not willing to pay for it, so they just dismiss it. I was like that for too many decades.
     
    CCW95A likes this.
  6. Hello there, @Abdicate

    Why should you assume I have not experienced God's power in my life? I am saved by grace, and know the joy of all of my sins forgiven, I have the assurance of knowing that I am accepted in the Beloved, and have been blessed with all spiritual blessings. I am sixtyseven now, but have known my Saviour, by God's grace, since I was twelve years old. Of course I have experienced His power in my life. Yet, it has not taken the form of signs and wonders and miraculous gifts, for that is not what He wills for me. I believe that He is working in my life, both willing and doing of HIS good pleasure. So I am content with what He gives.

    So, don't jump to conclusions my friend. I am His and He is mine, and I want for nothing in Christ Jesus my Lord.

    In His precious Name
    Who died for me, and rose again.
    Chris
     
    Major likes this.
  7. I'm sorry you equate my comments to implying that you're not saved. That's not my intention.
    Prove it in the word of God. That's just your belief based on your five senses. But that's okay. I'm just saying there's much more just waiting for you to choose it. God bless :)
     
  8. #9 CCW95A, Jan 16, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2016
    What I don't understand is if the Word of God quick, and powerful, and that the Kingdom of God is not in word but in power, how can anyone think that only a select few will have this power? I just don't make any since to me. Why deny the power that the Word of God, and the Kingdom Kingdom has which we are all participants in? Has the Word of God lost it's power, or has the Kingdom of God lost it's power. That would be the only way we would not have the same power the Apostles had. I don't so, unless we are holding to some man made "tradition" that makes the Word of God ineffective, which surly Paul did not teach.
    I thought Jesus said we would receive "power" after the Holy Spirit has come upon you. That is the same power he gave the twelve Apostles and the seventy. Maybe, there are those who don't have this power, because the Spirit God has not come upon them. If that is the case they surly don't have this power.

    1Co 4:20.. For the kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power.

    2Ti 3:5.. having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.

    1Co 2:4.. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
     
    Abdicate likes this.
  9. The traditions of the Apostles as opposed to the traditions of men.

    To all who are truly His and BORN of heaven. They are BORNagain by "THE faith that was once and for all given to the saints "
    It is not 'A' faith like all the 'faiths(so called) of the world.
    It is the same faith as was manifested by Abel.
    The traditions of the Apostles have their foundations not only in the words and actions of God in the garden of Eden . But in comparison to the traditions of men as exemplified by the works of Cain manifest a righteous life well pleasing in Gods eyes .
    The traditions of men as was implied "of the pharassees " is whatever is added to the Word of God . Or not in accordance with the Word of truth and the Spirit of truth.
    It is the "boasting in the scriptures but not knowing Him of whom they speak "
    It is the "leven of the pharasses" That effects the whole lump.
    It is relying only on ,in and by itself Greek and Hebrew and the 'original texts' and thinking by them ye know the truth .
    It is the historical practices of a church that cannot be justified by scripture.
    It is the WORKS of the Nicolaitans and the Doctrine of the same .
    It is beliefs, doctrines ,"cunningly devised fables" and 'immaculate conceptions' that have been held for and believed sometimes for years decades and some for centuries that were wrong in the beginning and are still wrong despite their age and length of being believed.
    The traditions of the Apostles do not at root have a dead 'god' at its heart .
    But rather came from God and leads all men to God .
    Where as the traditions of men though well pleasing to men are not of God and lead men away from God.

    in Christ
    gerald
     
  10. The traditions of the Apostles as opposed to the traditions of men.

    To all who are truly His and BORN of heaven. They are BORNagain by "THE faith that was once and for all given to the saints "
    It is not 'A' faith like all the 'faiths(so called) of the world.
    It is the same faith as was manifested by Abel.
    The traditions of the Apostles have their foundations not only in the words and actions of God in the garden of Eden . But in comparison to the traditions of men as exemplified by the works of Cain manifest a righteous life well pleasing in Gods eyes .
    The traditions of men as was implied "of the pharassees " is whatever is added to the Word of God . Or not in accordance with the Word of truth and the Spirit of truth.
    It is the "boasting in the scriptures but not knowing Him of whom they speak "
    It is the "leven of the pharasses" That effects the whole lump.
    It is relying only on ,in and by itself Greek and Hebrew and the 'original texts' and thinking by them ye know the truth .
    It is the historical practices of a church that cannot be justified by scripture.
    It is the WORKS of the Nicolaitans and the Doctrine of the same .
    It is beliefs, doctrines ,"cunningly devised fables" and 'immaculate conceptions' that have been held for and believed sometimes for years decades and some for centuries that were wrong in the beginning and are still wrong despite their age and length of being believed.
    The traditions of the Apostles do not at root have a dead 'god' at its heart .
    But rather came from God and leads all men to God .
    Where as the traditions of men though well pleasing to men are not of God and lead men away from God.

    in Christ
    gerald
     
  11. Hello CCW95A,

    The seventy which Advocate referred to were empowered for a specific purpose, by the Lord during his earthly ministry. The Holy Spirit had not yet been given. Paul and the other Apostles were especially empowered for the specific purpose that God had chosen them to do. Yet they had all received power from on high when the Holy Spirit came upon them at Pentecost. The works that they did were the sign of their apostleship, manifested in signs, wonders and miraculous gifts.

    All who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ have received power from on high, by that same Holy Spirit.

    There is no problem. Praise God! For we are 'complete' in Him.

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Major likes this.

  12. Hi @Advocate,
    I do not believe you doubt my salvation, Advocate. No problem.
    My 'belief' is based solidly on the Word of God, and on Christ my Saviour, as yours is Advocate. But I believe that I am 'Complete' in Christ, my friend, nothing lacking, because I am God's workmanship.

    'As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in Him:
    Rooted and built up in Him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught,
    abounding therein with thanksgiving.
    Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit,
    after the tradition of men,
    after the rudiments of the world,
    and not after Christ.
    For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
    And ye are complete in Him,
    which is the Head of all principality and power: ... '

    (Col 2:6-10)

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Major likes this.
  13. Before the day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit was UPON the disciples as it was on others in the Old testament .
    It was only upon them because the blood of Jesus had not yet been shed .
    It was after the death and resurection that Jesus said the Holy Spirit shall be upon you and IN you.
    That is for ALL who are true BORN sons of God.
    For we are commanded "be ye filled with the Spirit "

    in Christ
    gerald
     
    Major likes this.
  14. I'm glad you do. I do have one correction for you... the name is ABDICATE not advocate ;) :ROFLMAO: :LOL:
     
  15. It's for us all! Praise God!




    youtu.be/gm8s5CNw2rw
     
  16. Oops! :oops:

    Sorry, @Abdicate
     
    Abdicate likes this.
  17. 'But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you,
    brethren beloved of the Lord,
    because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation
    through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
    Whereunto He called you by our gospel,

    to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    Therefore, brethren, stand fast,
    and hold the traditions which ye have been taught,
    whether by word, or our epistle.
    Now our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and God, even our Father,
    which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
    Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.'

    (2 Thessalonians 2:13-17)

    Hello again,

    Coming back to the original question concerning the 'traditions' which the Thessalonian believers had been taught (either by word, or epistle) . We still have not considered what they actually were. I believe that the answer will be found in the example laid down by Paul himself. For he says, 'Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.' (1 Corinthians 11:1).

    * Each epistle is made up of doctrine and practice isn't it? Therefore a study of these epistles will reveal the 'traditions' and 'ordinances' which Paul delivered to them. (1 Corinthians 11:2).

    * Though those epistles written after the revelation given to Paul, while in prison in Rome, should be compared with what was written prior to it: to see whether the new dispensation, revealed to Paul, brought changes in administration. (Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1&2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon). For that would influence our worship, walk and witness, both personally and corporately.

    Just further thoughts.
    Thank you for listening
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Major likes this.
  18. Humbly;

    The verses you quote seem to reference "power" as the will of God through action and not word alone. Surely the power spoken of is of no effect without utmost Faith, belief, and hope in God through Christ. Also this power wouldn't exactly be for the sight of man, but for personal conviction.

    Lastly, the abilities of those in Christ wholly as one spirit are metaphorical in the writings. The blind who were made to see had working eyes already but were veiled by greed. Those who were dead, but were healed and walked in the spirit were dead in sin(greed) as sin is the labor of death. Upon receiving the spirit through Faith, they would have been born anew with a direction only towards GOD GOD the Father, by way of Christ, blessed be his name.

    Peace with humility,
    2ยข
     
  19. The word "power" actually means" "authority". there hast to be "power" to be able to back up "authority" or it is useless. The Lord gave his Church authority to use his Word which contains the "power". Jesus Christ (Word of God) is the Wisdom, and power of God. (1 Cor 1:24)
     
    Euphemia and Abdicate say Amen and like this.

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