Can I like Euphemia's video and totally disagree with the video? I feel like I should say that beyond English, I can speak pig latin and sign the alphabet. And dagnabit - when the guy spoke in "tongues" I thought for a minute, I heard him. But he is not wrong in loving God - just wrong in what it says scripturally about tongues. It is about understanding - not about saying things he doesn't understand.
The Testing Of Spirits
- Thread starter Silk
- Start date
That's your opinion, but he is correct, scripturally. There are two manifestations of tongues---one is a gift, and is used in the assembly. Interpretation is required. the other is private prayer tongues, and understanding is not necessary, and in fact, is usually not given, although I know people who have asked for interpretation and have been given it..
I have not heard of this booklet, and have never heard of the gifts being passed from a booklet, but from the laying on of hands or at the point of being baptized into the Name of Jesus which is the Holy Spirit baptism.
Right if God is for us who can be against us, and the reason that some do not press into and ask God for the gifts is because they fear the opinion of man and the rejection of their religious group. One must ask for these things, and God will supply at a time of His choosing. I say this as well, my brother or sister in the Lord is not those who speak in tongues but those who walk in the agape of Jesus Christ.
I agree with you!
This isn't the first go-round about the gifts of the Spirit here on this forum, nor will it be the last. MacArthur is speaking to a major movement that is not based on scripture and is leading to errors, damage to people's faith, and damage to the church, itself. And the movement is based on the exploitation of these same gifts, whether you agree with cessation or continuation, an abuse of them. I think what Major said about Speaking in Tongues can be faked is important to understand. Why anyone would fake it is obvious and varies-group pressure, status. You don't hear anything about interpeters/translators - why not? And even this can be faked because no one knows, even the speaker, what is being said. God wants us to understand and that's why we have scripture. Paul wrote to Corinth because people were abusing this, disrupting service and taking status. Paul wasn't going to argue with whether people had the gift - which is why he said don't do it if there is no interpeter. Understand what is said or don't disrupt service. A pastor from Africa, Conrad Mbwe (sp?) said he was on a Christian call in radio station with a Charismatic pastor and Conrad urged the listeners to come forward (call in) if they had any healing testimony. One caller said a friend of a relative had a girl who's one leg was longer than the other and she was healed 8 years before. One caller when healing services are held there every weekend in various parts of the city. No documented medical evidence of healing. I have to agree - why aren't these healers going from hospital to hospital healing? I would if I had this gift. And the easy answer if you aren't healed or don't speak in tongues is that you lack faith. Not rich enough? You lack faith. Prophecies that don't come true. This is all damaging to believers and ammunition for the non-believer.
I am not here to say forum members don't speak in tongues. I take you at your word. I have already been clear on why I won't pray for this gift and I have never cared what people thought so that has nothing to do with why I don't. I have prayed for people to be healed and if they are I don't try to take credit for their healing as a middle man. To say people aren't healed due to a lack of faith is incredibly cruel - or so it seems to me. That people retain their faith and have it grow while suffering greatly seems more heroic to me than a Todd Bently who kicked a guy in the stomach to "heal" them. The guy, if I recall correctly ,had liver cancer and died a week later. You ask why bring up these clear frauds? Maybe because there are so many of them leading this movement.
I am not here to say forum members don't speak in tongues. I take you at your word. I have already been clear on why I won't pray for this gift and I have never cared what people thought so that has nothing to do with why I don't. I have prayed for people to be healed and if they are I don't try to take credit for their healing as a middle man. To say people aren't healed due to a lack of faith is incredibly cruel - or so it seems to me. That people retain their faith and have it grow while suffering greatly seems more heroic to me than a Todd Bently who kicked a guy in the stomach to "heal" them. The guy, if I recall correctly ,had liver cancer and died a week later. You ask why bring up these clear frauds? Maybe because there are so many of them leading this movement.
In the 2nd episode, "a deeper healing", a quadraplegic woman giving the sermon/talk. She seems to have a great deal of faith and belief. She describes going to a Katherine Coleman event and was put in the wheelchair/handicapped section. Coleman never went near that section for the healing.
To blame a lack of faith and belief is way too easy for self proclaimed healers. Where is the documented evidence? Of healings of those who did have enough faith and belief.
To blame a lack of faith and belief is way too easy for self proclaimed healers. Where is the documented evidence? Of healings of those who did have enough faith and belief.
So are we saying that soldier that got his ear cut and Jesus healed it, he had to have faith first?
Yes, from scripture.
Matthew 13:57-58 (NLT)
And they were deeply offended and refused to believe in him. Then Jesus told them, “A prophet is honored everywhere except in his own hometown and among his own family.” 58 And so he did only a few miracles there because of their unbelief.
Glomung
Account Closed
I believe Euphemia is refering to
Matthew 13:58
And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
I personally believe that is a misinterpretation. He was not "unable to perform miracles" because of their lack of faith, as what they do or do not believe has no power over Him whatsoever. I would say that He performed few miracles among them because He recognized their "lack of faith" (i.e. lousy attitude) and therefore did not waste His own time hanging out with or performing wonders in front of the losers.
Matthew 13:58
And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
I personally believe that is a misinterpretation. He was not "unable to perform miracles" because of their lack of faith, as what they do or do not believe has no power over Him whatsoever. I would say that He performed few miracles among them because He recognized their "lack of faith" (i.e. lousy attitude) and therefore did not waste His own time hanging out with or performing wonders in front of the losers.
Sorry - I spelled Catherine Coleman wrong - correctly it is Katherine Kuhlman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Kuhlman ) I believe Benny Hinn claims she passed her gifts to him from the grave.
Mark 6:4-6 (NKJV)
But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own country, among his own relatives, and in his own house.” 5 Now He could do no mighty work there, except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them. 6 And He marveled because of their unbelief. Then He went about the villages in a circuit, teaching.
It doesn't say He WOULD NOT do a miracle, but that He COULD NOT do a mighty work there.
But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own country, among his own relatives, and in his own house.” 5 Now He could do no mighty work there, except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them. 6 And He marveled because of their unbelief. Then He went about the villages in a circuit, teaching.
It doesn't say He WOULD NOT do a miracle, but that He COULD NOT do a mighty work there.
Great question! I think that is not the only instance. There have been other instances where Jesus healed without the person requested.. Another passage for deeper study
John 5
1 Afterward Jesus returned to Jerusalem for one of the Jewish holy days.2 Inside the city, near the Sheep Gate, was the pool of Bethesda, with five covered porches. 3 Crowds of sick people—blind, lame, or paralyzed—lay on the porches. 5 One of the men lying there had been sick for thirty-eight years. 6 When Jesus saw him and knew he had been ill for a long time, he asked him, “Would you like to get well?” 7 “I can’t, sir,” the sick man said, “for I have no one to put me into the pool when the water bubbles up. Someone else always gets there ahead of me.” 8 Jesus told him, “Stand up, pick up your mat, and walk!” 9 Instantly, the man was healed!
Interestingly, the pool has "crowds of sick people". We are not talking about a few.. Crowds.. Jesus is actually reaching out to a person. The person did not reach out to Jesus or asked for healing..
Faith is an instrument Jesus uses for healing.. However, it is important to remember that Jesus is not forced to give healing when a person is in faith.. Everything MUST happen in accordance with his will.. Not ours..
What part of He healed a few sick people in that place causes one to think He couldn't heal unbelievers? God can heal anyone - believer and unbeliever alike - the point of such things is to get unbelievers to believe - not to "reward" believers. The miracles, healings of Christ was to show authenticity. Christ ministry came from Israel but was meant to be spread to all unbelievers. Cure my leprosy and I am become a believer.
That's actually a better example then mine. The guy clearly did not have faith because he said "I can't"
Glomung
Account Closed
So, you are trying to convince me that that Jesus, Son of the Eternal God, through whom all things were made, who raises the dead, who walks on water and calms the storms, has to have the good will of the crowd to do what He pleases?
I don't think so.