The Spirit And Salvation

The Holy Spirit can and has fallen upon some before they are water baptized (like Cornelius's household) but they were immediately water baptized (however in their case as well, they believed before receiving the Spirit (and that is what the OP is referring to)

brother Paul
 
The Holy Spirit can and has fallen upon some before they are water baptized (like Cornelius's household) but they were immediately water baptized (however in their case as well, they believed before receiving the Spirit (and that is what the OP is referring to)

brother Paul
Thank you Brother Psul.! Why do people love to nit pick little things then claim they believe the Gospel then try to find loopholes and errors?
 
Satan runs the show on this planet, why so many denominations all having various doctrines which don' t adhere to the true message..
 
Can you explain your theory, when it tells us Apostle Philip witnessed to the Ethiopian Eunich in Acts 8 v 36-38 After he told Philip he Beleived....A Philip took him down into the water and baptized him. A please explain how you "overlooked" this? tsk tsk

When was Phillip called to be an apostle?
 
Can you show me in v 36-38 when exactly the Ethiopian received the Holy Spirit? tsk tsk
Yes but they believed...were they already born from above? They showed faith...is this possible without the Holy Spirit? Must regeneration precede belief? Look at those in Philippi...they believed and were baptized yet the Spirit of God had not fallen on any of them....

"Born from above" = "Born again. Haven't seen that anywhere else! Very good.
They (disciples of John in acts 19) believed the teachings of John, but the purpose of the teaching of John was not to save, but to prepare the way for salvation. These disciples were ready to hear about Jesus, because they had already "made his paths straight" in their lives.

But what you're asking is about the relationship between belief and the Spirit:

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
Joh 16:8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:
Joh 16:9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me;

If an unbeliever feels conviction, can we say that this conviction is not by the Spirit? So isn't there a difference between having the Spirit and being influenced by the Spirit?

So belief isn't necessarily, at first, an all-in or all-out thing. Take the example of the desperate father in Mark 9:24, "I believe; help my unbelief!" But that's exactly what you're saying in your OP, isn't it?

Good reasoning.
God calls (invites) us to repent. If we believe God's calling, we will repent. Repentance is, basically, admitting that God is righteous and we are sinners; that God is right and we are wrong. Then God leads us to Jesus, and we come face to face with the Savior: again we will either admit we need a Savior, or deny Him. Now we are believers (can see - understand, perceive - God's kingdom); whether or not we fully repent.
If we accept ( choose to believe) the need of a Savior, we are in a state of Godly repentance. If not, we only suffered remorse.
"...except a man be born (conceived) again (from above - from God), he cannot see (understand, perceive) the kingdom of God. But that is only repentance, not salvation. The Israelites came to the edge of the Jordan River and saw the land God had promised them. But "...they did not enter in because of unbelief."
There is an entering into the kingdom!
 
Now there are those among us who teach one must already be regenerated (already His child) in order for you to believe...
How does this mesh? Let's discuss...

Paul,
Good point. Just to add some verses.

Reformed Theology - denominations associated with Luther or Calvin - get the order of faith and regeneration wrong. While they claim that regeneration comes prior to faith, the Bible indicates faith precedes regeneration:

"You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus" Gal 3:26

"Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God" John 1:12 And therefore one does not even receive the right to regeneration until they come to faith in Christ.

As for the reception of the Holy Spirit, the Bible again indicates that occurs after one comes to faith in Christ:

"If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ." Rom 8:9b

"No one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit." John 3:5

And just to clear up another misconception that a vast number of Christian have, the baptism with the Holy Spirit is the same as receiving the Holy. That as opposed to a "second blessing" concept those of Charismatic persuasions have.

"The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body— whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free— and we were all given the one Spirit to drink." 1Cor 12:12,13

That verse is the only verse in the New Testament epistles which includes the word "baptism" and "Spirit". Paul indicates that everyone who is in Christ has been baptized with the Holy Spirit.

And as for reading doctrine out of Acts, consider this series of verses:

"For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit." Acts 1:5 where Jesus refers to what the apostles were to experience in Acts 2 - a baptism without water!

Acts 10:47 "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." Here Cornelius and his family has "received" the Holy Spirit (prior to getting water baptized) "just as we have" refers back to Acts 2, which Jesus indicated was the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Thus these three verses taken together equate the receiving of the Holy Spirit with the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

And that's the reason why there's only one verse in the epistles - the letters to the churches - which speaks explicitly of the baptism with the Holy Spirit. For the Christians understood that the receiving of the Holy Spirit, which occurs universally when one comes to faith in Christ, is the same as the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

Very good! Everything is by the Spirit of God; from God's calling to repent, to entering into His kingdom. Jesus said, "No man comes to me, except the Father draw him." The Father is Spirit: yet not all have received Him, and no man can receive Him (the Father) without first receiving the son and having the son reveal the Father (Matthew 11:26)
Surely God's Spirit is everywhere, with us, drawing us to the son: but God's will is to be in us, and abide in us!
 
Very good! Everything is by the Spirit of God; from God's calling to repent, to entering into His kingdom. Jesus said, "No man comes to me, except the Father draw him." The Father is Spirit: yet not all have received Him, and no man can receive Him (the Father) without first receiving the son and having the son reveal the Father (Matthew 11:26)
Surely God's Spirit is everywhere, with us, drawing us to the son: but God's will is to be in us, and abide in us!

Salvation is all of grace...God owes no man anything since all have sinned...but because God initiates does not guarantee some won't reject...so Salvation is all by grace, but the Spirit's initial conviction that we need to turn to God and be saved does not itself equal being regenerated (being Born again...at least IMO) before one initially turns to Him (Ezekiel 18 and 33 and much more) in response to hearing Him or His word...as Paul says "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?" God audibly spoke to Cain (who knew Him personally) and offered Him an offer entirely from grace (knowing what he was planning to do)...and if Cain had gone and done it right (sacrificed a lamb) I am sure God would have honored His promise to Cain that all would go well with him...but alas, he would not and rejected God's promise and rejected His Lordship and acting as his own lord (Genesis 3:5) as if he were a god...took his brother's life (and the word says "His bloods" plural, cries out from the ground...so Cain was seen as guilty of killing all of Abel's potential offspring as well)...
 
Yes. And any man who is faithful and has the Spirit of Him "...who called you out of darkness and unto His marvelous light..." is able to baptize and do "...the work of the ministry...".

Amen...be about it my brother, be about it as God has enabled you...even if that is just being a prayer warrior or giving some food to the hungry or a warm word of comfort or encouragement in the name of the Lord...
 
Salvation is all of grace...God owes no man anything since all have sinned...but because God initiates does not guarantee some won't reject...so Salvation is all by grace, but the Spirit's initial conviction that we need to turn to God and be saved does not itself equal being regenerated (being Born again...at least IMO) before one initially turns to Him (Ezekiel 18 and 33 and much more) in response to hearing Him or His word...as Paul says "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?" God audibly spoke to Cain (who knew Him personally) and offered Him an offer entirely from grace (knowing what he was planning to do)...and if Cain had gone and done it right (sacrificed a lamb) I am sure God would have honored His promise to Cain that all would go well with him...but alas, he would not and rejected God's promise and rejected His Lordship and acting as his own lord (Genesis 3:5) as if he were a god...took his brother's life (and the word says "His bloods" plural, cries out from the ground...so Cain was seen as guilty of killing all of Abel's potential offspring as well)...

Yes, Beloved, and the preaching of the gospel is giving life to the person that receives it, "and to all his potential".
 
When was Phillip called to be an apostle?

PHILIP - from Bethsaida in Galilee
(Mat 10:3, Mar 3:18, Luk 6:14, Jhn 1:44 & 12:21)

Mat 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; and James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
Mat 10:3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;
Mat 10:4 Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot, the one who betrayed Him

Mar 3:16 And He appointed the twelve: Simon (to whom He gave the name Peter),
Mar 3:17 and James, the son of Zebedee, and John the brother of James (to them He gave the name Boanerges, which means, "Sons of Thunder");
Mar 3:18 and Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Zealot;
Mar 3:19 and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Him.

Jhn 1:43 The next day He purposed to go into Galilee, and He found Philip. And Jesus said to him, "Follow Me."
Jhn 1:44 Now Philip was from Bethsaida, of the city of Andrew and Peter.
Jhn 1:45 Philip found Nathanael and said to him, "We have found Him of whom Moses in the Law and also the Prophets wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph."
Jhn 1:46 Nathanael said to him, "Can any good thing come out of Nazareth?" Philip said to him, "Come and see."
Jhn 1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to Him, and said of him, "Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no deceit!"
Jhn 1:48 Nathanael said to Him, "How do You know me?" Jesus answered and said to him, "Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you."
Jhn 1:49 Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."
 
PHILIP - from Bethsaida in Galilee
(Mat 10:3, Mar 3:18, Luk 6:14, Jhn 1:44 & 12:21)

Mat 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; and James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
Mat 10:3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;
Mat 10:4 Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot, the one who betrayed Him

Mar 3:16 And He appointed the twelve: Simon (to whom He gave the name Peter),
Mar 3:17 and James, the son of Zebedee, and John the brother of James (to them He gave the name Boanerges, which means, "Sons of Thunder");
Mar 3:18 and Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Zealot;
Mar 3:19 and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Him.

Jhn 1:43 The next day He purposed to go into Galilee, and He found Philip. And Jesus said to him, "Follow Me."
Jhn 1:44 Now Philip was from Bethsaida, of the city of Andrew and Peter.
Jhn 1:45 Philip found Nathanael and said to him, "We have found Him of whom Moses in the Law and also the Prophets wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph."
Jhn 1:46 Nathanael said to him, "Can any good thing come out of Nazareth?" Philip said to him, "Come and see."
Jhn 1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to Him, and said of him, "Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no deceit!"
Jhn 1:48 Nathanael said to Him, "How do You know me?" Jesus answered and said to him, "Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you."
Jhn 1:49 Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

Yes, Phillip of Bethsaida was called to be an apostle by the Lord Jesus. However, Stephen, Phillip, Prochorus and Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas and Nicolas (Acts 6:5) were chosen by the people (not the Lord Jesus) to serve tables. Only the Lord Jesus can decide who is to be in the Ministry (see Acts Chapter 9).
As an aside: the presbytery may lay hands to ordain into the Ministry, but it should only be as a confirmation of the Lord's will!
 
Acts 21...8 And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea (in the land of the Samaritans): and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him. 9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.
 
Acts 21...8 And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea (in the land of the Samaritans): and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him. 9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.

Yes. Phillip did an outstanding work in Samaria: he preached to a whole city, and to a single individual. Phillip knew the gospel, and was later named an evangelist.
Evangelism belongs to the Church (work of the ministry, Eph. 4:12)
The evangelist teaches the Church the gospel, and "how to" evangelize.
 
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