The Spirit And Salvation

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Brother Paul, Feb 7, 2014.

  1. In Acts 19 Paul comes upon some disciples (students following Jesus). He asks them, "Have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed?" The answer is no, and then after prayer and the laying on of hands they "receive" the Holy Spirit...

    Now here is what we know...

    a) You cannot get into the Kingdom until you are born of the Spirit (being regenerated)...

    b) Being born again means you now have the Spirit of God in you...'

    c) without the Spirit of Christ IN you, you are none of His

    Now there are those among us who teach one must already be regenerated (already His child) in order for you to believe...

    How does this mesh? Let's discuss...

    In His love

    brother Paul
  3. I understand Fully what your saying bro. Actually these were the former Disciples of John The Baptist. John could not baptize anyone with the Holy Ghost, He died before Jesus did and was not allowed to Baptize them in the Water and Spirit that started in Acts 2 The New Testament salvation plan. John's Apostles were never clued in on receiving the Holy Spirit of God..
  4. Yes but they believed...were they already born from above? They showed this possible without the Holy Spirit? Must regeneration precede belief? Look at those in Philippi...they believed and were baptized yet the Spirit of God had not fallen on any of them....
  5. Let me say this...A verse in the Bible talks about The Spirit of The Lord will lead you and guide you into all truth.. Jesus says he is " The Way, The Truth and The Life" God led me to Church the night I received The Holy Ghost..
  6. They (disciples of John in acts 19) believed the teachings of John, but the purpose of the teaching of John was not to save, but to prepare the way for salvation. These disciples were ready to hear about Jesus, because they had already "made his paths straight" in their lives.

    But what you're asking is about the relationship between belief and the Spirit:

    Joh 16:7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
    Joh 16:8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:
    Joh 16:9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me;

    If an unbeliever feels conviction, can we say that this conviction is not by the Spirit? So isn't there a difference between having the Spirit and being influenced by the Spirit?

    So belief isn't necessarily, at first, an all-in or all-out thing. Take the example of the desperate father in Mark 9:24, "I believe; help my unbelief!" But that's exactly what you're saying in your OP, isn't it?
  7. This is interesting. I ask for a clarification though: what do you mean by regeneration? Do you mean in the sense of being cleaned up on the inside from sin and muck (revitalized I suppose)? What definition are you going by for this?
  8. absolutely...God initiates...He gives the offer through the Spirit or the word...some are convicted and turn to Him, others are convicted and reject Him...(is all by grace as He owes no man anything we all having sinned)...but this initial motivation by grace can be resisted (Acts 7:51) finding yourself convicted by the Holy Spirit does not make you believe...and even when you first believe does this mean you were already "regenerated" (born again?)...consider Simon Magi who believed and was baptized but ended up not being saved...
  9. Yes....Yes.....Yes
  10. Titus 3:5 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost...

    paliggenesia = new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration

    See also Matthew 19:28
  11. Preach on Bro!!
  12. Many people that are professing Christians, but do not have the Holy Ghost because: Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
    If you are not in an atmosphere of faith where the need to be baptized in the Holy Ghost is spoken .....You (more than likely) will NOT receive. We MUST believe "As the scripture hath said."
    John 7:37-39
    King James Version (KJV)
    37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
    38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
    39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
  13. Tell It!!
  14. I can speak on this subject from personal experience, '82 the Lord allowed my life to be turned upside down, at that time I didn't want anything to do with God, but then I started reading the New Testament, then I felt I needed to go to church, I became very active, was in charge of the youth, taught an adult Bible Study, helped out in Sunday School, was in charge of Men's Breakfast, played in the Worship band........., all before I was born again, so yes, the Holy Spirit comes along side of us to open our eyes to our need of salvation, it's illustrated in the first three verses of the the Bible, I was without form and void, the Holy Spirit was there "hovering' over me, then that grand fiat, "Let there be Light," and my eyes were opened to see myself, I thought I was so cool, had a handle on life, I was a successful contractor, had money in the bank, no different than most of the others in the church, but then I saw for the first time in my life I was without form and void (lost), I had heard the Gospel many times, even consented to it in my head, but it had never penetrated into my heart, deep down into my soul, when that Light shone bright in my soul (at a Wednesday night Bible Study in July of '86) I realized and knew in my heart I was on the highway to Hell, I asked Jesus to forgive me and I received His free gift of salvation and was born again, my dead to God spirit was regenerated to hear God speaking to me and I could speak to Him. Praise the Lord!!!


    RosaVera likes this.
  15. Great Testimony Bro'! very encouraging. A person cannot fail if they keep their eye on The Lord. Our Pastor spoke this morning maybe others have gone through this.

    Before The Economy collapsed in 2008 A lot of people in our Church were doing very well financially, including me. Then The bottom fell out and some of us lost our homes their credit because they could make the payments before the collapse, etc. But those of us who got badly hurt never gave up on God, and now after almost 6 years things are getting stabilized. If Our walk is not one of pure faith it would be easy to give up move away and do what the weak flesh wants us to do...But when you go through fiery trials the Lord sees our determination and keeps us stabilized for our simple faith in him.
  16. Right on Rick, I have been walking in/by faith for 27 years, Father supplying all of my daily needs, David said he had never seen the righteous begging bread, and that is so true, Jesus taught we are to be converted and become like little children, little children don't have any worries, we, their fathers, will take care of them, then how much more will our loving Heavenly Father take care of us, ...I have found that if I learn the lesson that comes from Father allowing the hardships and trials into my life that my faith grows, becomes stronger, built up, ...even if we are unfaithful He cannot deny Himself, He will remain faithful, ...I've stumbled in my faith and been unfaithful, questioned Him why, even went through a time when I didn't have a place to lay my head and ended up sleeping on a bench, but then I saw/learned He had provided that bench for me, He is faithful if we will just take our eyes off of our circumstances and focus on Jesus in the trials, then when lesson is learned the test will be finished, matter what the circumstances are we will be given a peace that goes beyond our understanding and will we be content with whatever is on our plate, 1 Tim 6:6 it's that simple, really is.

    May the Lord richly bless you my brother,

  17. Now there are those among us who teach one must already be regenerated (already His child) in order for you to believe...
    How does this mesh? Let's discuss...

    Good point. Just to add some verses.

    Reformed Theology - denominations associated with Luther or Calvin - get the order of faith and regeneration wrong. While they claim that regeneration comes prior to faith, the Bible indicates faith precedes regeneration:

    "You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus" Gal 3:26

    "Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God" John 1:12 And therefore one does not even receive the right to regeneration until they come to faith in Christ.

    As for the reception of the Holy Spirit, the Bible again indicates that occurs after one comes to faith in Christ:

    "If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ." Rom 8:9b

    "No one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit." John 3:5

    And just to clear up another misconception that a vast number of Christian have, the baptism with the Holy Spirit is the same as receiving the Holy. That as opposed to a "second blessing" concept those of Charismatic persuasions have.

    "The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body— whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free— and we were all given the one Spirit to drink." 1Cor 12:12,13

    That verse is the only verse in the New Testament epistles which includes the word "baptism" and "Spirit". Paul indicates that everyone who is in Christ has been baptized with the Holy Spirit.

    And as for reading doctrine out of Acts, consider this series of verses:

    "For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit." Acts 1:5 where Jesus refers to what the apostles were to experience in Acts 2 - a baptism without water!

    Acts 10:47 "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." Here Cornelius and his family has "received" the Holy Spirit (prior to getting water baptized) "just as we have" refers back to Acts 2, which Jesus indicated was the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Thus these three verses taken together equate the receiving of the Holy Spirit with the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

    And that's the reason why there's only one verse in the epistles - the letters to the churches - which speaks explicitly of the baptism with the Holy Spirit. For the Christians understood that the receiving of the Holy Spirit, which occurs universally when one comes to faith in Christ, is the same as the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
  18. A person can receive The Holy Ghost/ Spirit before or after they get water Baptized. I have witnessed Hundreds of life changing within Holy Ghost conviction in people. Before or after...but the Water Baptism is still an essential part of this transformation event.
  19. Can you explain your theory, when it tells us Apostle Philip witnessed to the Ethiopian Eunich in Acts 8 v 36-38 After he told Philip he Beleived....A Philip took him down into the water and baptized him. A please explain how you "overlooked" this? tsk tsk
  20. Can you show me in Acts 8 v 36-38 when exactly the Ethiopian received the Holy Spirit? tsk tsk

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