The Raptures (Harpazo) of the Scriptures

[CCW95A]

The whole purpose of Paul writing first and second Thessalonians was dispel a belief that the "day of the Lord" had already come, and that they would have to go through the tribulation.

2Th 2:2.. That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Paul reassures them that day will not come unless there be a "falling away" first. This falling away is NOT Christians falling away from Christ, but it means a "departure" from which is what that word really means.

2Th 2:3.. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The man of sin can not be "revealed" until the Church is gone from the earth!!!

2Th 2:5.. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6.. And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

What is "withholding" the man of sin from being revealed is the Holy Spirit who works through the Church. Take the Church away and the man of sin will be revealed.

 

[Silk]

[Warning: Testimonial Upcoming]

I'm a relative newcomer to the pretrib rapture. I don't remember a time, literally, that I didn't have faith in God, Christ, and the stories in scripture. It's as rock solid now as my earliest memories at age 2. There was no doubt then and there is none now. I take exception to people talking about more faith and not enough faith. What has grown is my understanding of scripture. You either believe or don't (that's faith). Scriptural interpetation is a whole 'nother arena. More than 3 years ago, I had a conversation with God. I told Him I didn't understand the Holy Spirit and a bunch of other things. He told me to "Go find my people up north". I took that to mean internet and I googled christian forums and this one is the only forum that was listed. My initial steps had a lot of pride in them and I learned nothing. It was @Major that pointed out to me that scripture should be read with the Holy Spirit (that you had to ask for the help). Up until that point, I had read with my intellect, alone. And you can get some truth that way. But you see things that contradict because you don't read in context. I didn't take scripture, literally, I thought many men writing it messed some of it up. I nearly slipped off the right path, regarding the Holy Spirit, because so many people posting, acting righteous, emphasized gifts and the HS over everything else, including Christ. You only hacve to read Romans Chapter 8 to see what scripture says is the HS role. So when I started reading scripture, in context, with the eye to overall meaning, to my surprise. I no longer saw contradictions. From OT to NT, all scripture cross references each other and they all affirm each other. But, I still did not see any scripture supporting pretrib rapture. Before I came to the forum, I had read all the Left Behind Books. They made the tribulation seem like a trip to Disneyland compared to my dream. But I will say this for the books - they did show a meaningful way you could read the book of Revelation where it didn't sound like complete gobbedly gook. I was tracking the "bad" bloodlines and geography in scripture, which forced me to look at the times of God's wrath and judgement, and when singular events of a person being raptured. Sometimes not as simple but Sodom & Gomorrah was a judgement and Lot being saved because (I believe) because of Abraham's love for Lot. And Ka-Boom, it hit me I was combining rapture scripture with 2nd Coming scripture. And that's why I was confused. When separated, there are no contradictions. Another good tip from Major - all scripture must "fit" and agree. In fact, the pretrib rapture is the only interpetation that has no contradictions. I don't know that it matters what you believe in any disputes over scripture interpetation as long as you have basic faith. The 10 virgins parable comes to mind. The Prodigal also comes to mind. Only 2 sons..not 3 or 5...and one of those sons stays with God. I think the prodigal is the first chosen - the Jews. The other son experiences no tribulation because he stays with the father.
My 2 cents...

 

[Abdicate]

How about this for OT Rapture? All the early church fathers believe Songs of Solomon was about Jesus and His bride - the church. With that in mind, read these verses:

Song of Solomon 2:8 (KJV)

The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.​

Skipping entails air between you and the earth! "... meet Him in the air..."

Song of Solomon 2:10 (KJV)

My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.​

Rise up... caught up... and come away... come up hither...

Parable of the fig tree explained...

Song of Solomon 2:13 (KJV)

The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines [with] the tender grape give a [good] smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.​

Song of Solomon 2:14 (KJV)

O my dove, [that art] in the clefts of the rock, in the secret [places] of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet [is] thy voice, and thy countenance [is] comely.​

The word in Genesis translated as Night also means protective shadow and comes from the root word meaning staircase or enclosed space and the word for darkness is translated the secret place. In other words, the secret place of the stairs is HEAVEN! Come away with me to Heaven!

What are we going to do? Marriage supper of the Lamb!

Song of Solomon 5:1 (KJV)

I am come into my garden, my sister, [my] spouse: I have gathered my myrrh with my spice; I have eaten my honeycomb with my honey; I have drunk my wine with my milk: eat, O friends; drink, yea, drink abundantly, O beloved.​

Finally:

Proverbs 25:7 (KJV)

For better [it is] that it be said unto thee, Come up hither; than that thou shouldest be put lower in the presence of the prince whom thine eyes have seen.
​

There ya go...

 

[Abdicate]

P.S. The word for "come away" is הָלַך halak and means: to go, walk, come, specifically: depart, to lead, bring, lead away, carry

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (Abdicate Version)

Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a departure first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;​

 

[Lanolin]

Think that refers to the betrayer. Rememeber that Judas was revealed as the son of perdition amngst Jesus disciples because he departed first. He went out before Jesus announced his new convenant at the last supper. The rest of the disciples stayed.

Is there an abidicate version of the bible now?

 

[Lanolin]

There are comings and then there are goings. Dont mix up the two.
We are coming to the wedding supper.
The unbelievers are going to hell.

 

[Euphemia]

Think that refers to the betrayer. Rememeber that Judas was revealed as the son of perdition amngst Jesus disciples because he departed first. He went out before Jesus announced his new convenant at the last supper. The rest of the disciples stayed.

The son of perdition referred to in 2 Thessalonians 2 is the Antichrist, the man of lawlessness.

 

[Abdicate]

Think that refers to the betrayer. Rememeber that Judas was revealed as the son of perdition amngst Jesus disciples because he departed first. He went out before Jesus announced his new convenant at the last supper. The rest of the disciples stayed.

Is there an abidicate version of the bible now?

Out of all I wrote, that's the only thing you saw? Kind of shows your state of thinking. People see this verse as the apostasy verse. Making them believe this is where the "church" abandons God for their own lust. That thinking does NOT match the theme of the book nor of the chapter. This verse proves the rapture because the word also means DEPARTURE. First the departure of the saints to be with Jesus forever and THEN the antichrist is revealed. That's what Paul is saying. Get into the Greek and Hebrew and learn for yourself rather than listening to men - including me - and you won't be so confused. In this day and age, with all the tools at our fingertips, there are no excuses for all this wishy washy easy-believism.

 

[Abdicate]

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV) Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Yet the older translations into English all say “depart”:

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (Tyndale) Let no ma deceave you by eny meanes for the lorde commeth not excepte ther come a departynge fyrst and that that synfnll man be opened ye sonne of perdicion

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (Webster) Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction,

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (Geneva) Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for [that day shall not come,] except there come a departing first, and that that man of sinne be disclosed, [euen] the sonne of perdition,

The word “falling away” and “departure” in Greek is αποστασια and in the Modern Greek language translate as “distance” or “secessionism”. The dictionary says that apostasy means a “defection” which in my opinion would be more apt in this meaning. We as Christians are not part of this world, though we live in this world, and therefore we are defecting from the accepted worldly norm. That is, Jesus aids us in defecting from the earth. The world chooses the devil and we are defecting to God. To put it another way we are abandoning a belief system the world has accepted, of which we were once participants.

Men have since Adam chose to leave the truth for the false, so how is it that this “falling away” can be a sign? In America’s case, we started to depart from the truth in the 1920’s. We’ve come from a clearly born-of-God God-fearing nation to “we do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation. We consider ourselves a nation of citizens who are bound by ideals and a set of values.” President Obama1 He’s correct because even if you count all the “Christians” there are over 41,000 denominations!2 I’m sorry, but the falling away happened long ago.

Here are two articles that explain it better than I can:

http://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/TheRapturein2Thessalonians2_3.html

http://blogs.blueletterbible.org/blb/2013/01/09/they-shall-not-escape

Remember, the paper copies of the Word of God will remain as a testimony as well as websites. People will be looking for the truth when their governments will be telling lies. In it, they will understand that the rapture was indeed a sign for those left behind to be on the lookout for the Son of Perdition, the Antichrist.

References

1 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/06/obama-us-not-a-christian_n_183772.html

2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations

From my blog: http://abdicate.net/blog/?p=416​

 

[Silk]

Judas is " a son of perdition" not "the son of perdition" and his departure at the last supper or from life, for that matter, has little to zilch to do with what Paul is saying here. Confusing "antichrist spirit" with the actual person of the antichrist. As CW has already posted - Paul's letter to the Thessalonians is in response to their having heard that the " day of the Lord" was come and implying that they had missed something - an event. That event is the rapture. The church is told to look for Christ first. You are not told to look for Christ every day of 7 years....He comes at the end of the 7 years. What possible comfort can anyone take from a falling away of faith? The emphasis of falling away from faith came with english translations, at the time when the divide by Catholics and Protestants BOTH wanted to cast the other as falling away. Pretrib rapture is the only explanation that "fits" all other scripture. Those faithful to Christ/God are not meant to experience the wrath poured forth during the tribulation. Practicing Jews must face it because they rejected Christ. Why would we face the same thing when we do not reject Christ?

 

[Silk]

Regarding the restrainer of Thessalonians. Remember that Abraham established something about what might stop a judgement by asking how many righteous men it took to save Sodom & Gomorrah....think it was 10. Righteousness, such as Christians ,would have to be removed prior to any wrath/judgement would start in end times. They are by definition, indwelt by the Holy Spirit. In the time of Jonah, Ninevah was spared because they repented. Whatever your views on Enoch, evidence is there that he had contact with watchers/fallen angels and Enoch was removed from any retaliation that might have been made against him in the physical world, prior to the flood. The 10 virgins and the Prodigal story all support a rapture.
My 3 cents more...

 

[Mykuhl]

Regarding the restrainer of Thessalonians. Remember that Abraham established something about what might stop a judgement by asking how many righteous men it took to save Sodom & Gomorrah....think it was 10. Righteousness, such as Christians ,would have to be removed prior to any wrath/judgement would start in end times. They are by definition, indwelt by the Holy Spirit. In the time of Jonah, Ninevah was spared because they repented. Whatever your views on Enoch, evidence is there that he had contact with watchers/fallen angels and Enoch was removed from any retaliation that might have been made against him in the physical world, prior to the flood. The 10 virgins and the Prodigal story all support a rapture.
My 3 cents more...

I also find it interesting that Paul says in verse 6 that the Thessalonians KNEW what was restraining the antichrist.

I also find it interesting that in the footnotes of the Amplified Bible it does say that "a possible rendering of the Greek word apostasia is departure[of the church]." Also, "Many believe that this One Who restrains the antichrist to be the Holy Spirit, Who lives in all believers and will be removed with them at Christ's coming; yet a majority thinks it refers to the Roman empire."

 

[Silk]

Also, "Many believe that this One Who restrains the antichrist to be the Holy Spirit, Who lives in all believers and will be removed with them at Christ's coming; yet a majority thinks it refers to the Roman empire."

Parse it out - how could an empire of the world, by definition not the "Godly" side and therefore wicked, ever restrain further evil? Many and multiple people identify the 4th Empire identified in Nebuchadnezzar's dream as Rome (before the western leg took on Christianity as the official religion iin 300 AD). Evil begets evil - it doesn't restrain it.

 

[Mykuhl]

Parse it out - how could an empire of the world, by definition not the "Godly" side and therefore wicked, ever restrain further evil? Many and multiple people identify the 4th Empire identified in Nebuchadnezzar's dream as Rome (before the western leg took on Christianity as the official religion iin 300 AD). Evil begets evil - it doesn't restrain it.

I agree Silk. I was just pointing out what the Amplified bible stated. I don't agree that it is Rome either, and I was thinking about leaving that part out but so wanted to show the full quote in order to show that that apparently is the common idea.

 

[Silk]

I see/saw the quotes but I guess (?) the last part sounds so contradictory that it seems to float on it's own. I can see where the eastern leg empire (Constantinople) has revived in the form of Islam.....but you will recall, all the empires. one built upon another, are destroyed in the end by the stone (Christ) aimed at the feet.

 

[Abdicate]

People never ask who the seventh nation was... ever notice that? Who reigned over Israel longer than any other nation in history? The Ottoman Empire. The church was duped into believing a lie 400 years ago that the Catholic church would be the end-time religion. While it may have a part (the false prophet) the AC is an Assyrian and who are the Assyrians today? ISIL and Kurdistan.

 

[Abdicate]

I see/saw the quotes but I guess (?) the last part sounds so contradictory that it seems to float on it's own. I can see where the eastern leg empire (Constantinople) has revived in the form of Islam.....but you will recall, all the empires. one built upon another, are destroyed in the end by the stone (Christ) aimed at the feet.

Read who the Messiah wages war against when He returns and you'll see they are all 100% Islamic nations. Rome isn't even mentioned or implied.

 

[Arrie03]

I see/saw the quotes but I guess (?) the last part sounds so contradictory that it seems to float on it's own. I can see where the eastern leg empire (Constantinople) has revived in the form of Islam.....but you will recall, all the empires. one built upon another, are destroyed in the end by the stone (Christ) aimed at the feet.

Yes, that is the point, but recall - those empires are not yet destroyed, but will be.
And the beast is reported in Revelation as 'of the seven'
I just simply went and dug until I found what was similar between the seven kingdoms before the eighth.
And it's not that hard, because it is their gods - Bel, the sun and moon gods which are very prevalent in islam today and came right through from Egypt.

 

[Arrie03]

Read who the Messiah wages war against when He returns and you'll see they are all 100% Islamic nations. Rome isn't even mentioned or implied.

I have however topped and searched if the possibility exists that Rome and Greece will return to their former pagan ways.
And the answer is yes, unfortunately.

 

[Silk]

Yes, that is the point, but recall - those empires are not yet destroyed, but will be.
And the beast is reported in Revelation as 'of the seven'
I just simply went and dug until I found what was similar between the seven kingdoms before the eighth.
And it's not that hard, because it is their gods - Bel, the sun and moon gods which are very prevalent in islam today and came right through from Egypt.

You will note that each empire causes the fall of the previous. The feet of iron and clay is (IMO) are of the Roman eastern leg and clay which makes the base of the statue unstable because clay and metal don't really mix well. Re: Bel/Baal, I think this goes back to Nimrod. (before Babylon, Eygpt, etal). And I agree that Bel/Baal is connected to Islam.