The Rapture Question Answered

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by JohnMark, Aug 16, 2006.

  1. The Rapture Question Answered

    The Rapture Question Answered



    I have chosen to start a new thread on a new topic, the Rapture. Let me begin by saying that I do not claim to be a prophecy expert. I am happy to summarize what I believe about the Rapture. To do this I will make use of quotes from other writers on the subject who can explain it much better than I could. No need for me to reinvent the wheel. After my initial posts I will submit a few additional ones clarifying my views and replying to questions relevant to the subject at hand. But I don't care to enter into a lengthy debate, splitting hairs and elaborating every detail. Nor will I defend things I didn't say or points I didn't make. There's nothing personal in this. Not to debate or argue is my standard policy when I participate in online forums. In the last 5 1/2 years I've read many a lengthy thread. They usually generate more heat than light, more emotion than reason, more speculation than sound Biblical interpretation, and more opinion than fact.

    Also, in the "other" thread when I quoted the Pre-Trib rapture website, I was not necessarily endorsing or agreeing with everything written at that website. What I have in common with those people is that we both believe a rapture will occur in the future. The principle thing we do not agree on is the timing of the rapture in the sequence of end-time events.

    You ask: "In other words you are supporting the SECRET RAPTURE, Left behind theory where christians are being caught up secretly to heaven while life on earth continues for several years (7) after?"

    I reply: No, I do not support the secret rapture, Left behind theory where christians are being caught up secretly to heaven. I do not support the idea of a secret, any-moment rapture. And I certainly do not get my beliefs from the Left-Behind series of fiction.

    You write: "So in other words this supports the pre-trib theory right?" I reply: That other website may support the pre-trib theory, but I most definitely do not.

    LA-girl, I sincerely thank you for sharing your beliefs about the rapture. In subsequent posts in this thread I will say what I believe about it.

    This post is merely a preface -- an introduction -- to the rapture question.

    More to come.

    Grace and peace,
  2. RAPTURE VIEWS: Prewrath vs. Pretrib



    What I believe:

    'The Prewrath position teaches that the true church will be raptured when the great tribulation by Antichrist, inspired by Satan, is cut short by God's day-of-the-Lord wrath, which will occur between the sixth and seventh seals of Revelation, sometime during the second half of the seventieth week. The persecution associated with the great tribulation of Antichrist is viewed as the wrath of Satan, whereas the events that follow, beginning with the seventh seal, are considered the wrath of God. There is another term that is sometimes expressed, "historical premillennialism," which refers back to the teaching of the early church fathers before 325 A.D. They believed that the church would face the persecution of Antichrist and Christ would then reign for 1000 years upon the earth. With the exception of two, Origen and Clement of Alexandria, who were allegorists, they all taught this view. Prewrath is plainly and simply an expansion of this view which was biblical then and biblical now.'

    What I do not believe:

    'This view was first known as "the secret" or "any moment rapture." It is a relatively new position which was first taught by the founder of the Catholic Apostolic Church, Edward Irving in the late 1820's. It was then picked up by Plymouth Brethren pastor John Nelson Darby, and he first preached on it in 1843. It came to America in the late 1800's and was popularized by C.I. Schofield when he revised his Bible notes in 1917. Pretribulationists teach that the return of Christ has been imminent since the days of the early church and that the church will be raptured sometime before the seventieth week begins. Although they have no Scripture that in so many words teaches it, they teach that there are no signs and the rapture could take place at any moment. The seventieth week of Daniel is therefore considered to be a seven-year period of God's judgmental "tribulation" (hence the term pretribulation). This position generally views the seventieth week as the day of the Lord's wrath from which the church is excluded. ('

    Grace and peace,
  3. Ok, thanks for your explanation JohnMark! It is interesting to hear other peoples interpretation of the same text and to see how all the different theories regarding this issue. Well, I still believe I have discovered the truth regarding this and many other bible-questions and it will be up to each individual to search the scriptures and try to find out what they believe is the real truth.

    I will repeat my view (extended) regarding this issue:

    I believe the Bible teach that the rapture occurs not prior to, but when Jesus return after the tribulation (first the rightouss dead and then the rightouss living). After that God will destroy every living creature and all the human works (buildings) and the earth will be left desolate for a thousand years while all the saints will be in heaven, in the city that Jesus has prepared for us during the 1000 years where all the rightouss will be a part of judging the lost. That means we will be able to see why the lost are lost so that we will trust that God is making a just judgement. During this time Satan is bound to this earth and will be "bound", that means he has no humans to deceive, since all are dead or in heaven. After the 1000 years this city (The new Jerusalem) will ascend down from heaven to this earth where the Final judgement will take place. satan will be loosened for a short period where he will gather all the dead lost who are now resurrected in the final battle. They will soon realize that they will not win and everybody will have to admit that Jesus is the King. After everybody is given their just punishment, everybody (lost) will in the end be burnt up completely and only ashes will be left. When all sinners and sin is completely removed from this universe it is time for God to create the new earth. It will still be this earth, but this earth made new and perfect!
  4. But what about the evidence that shows that the Rapture was merely the product of the Irish Evangelist John Nelson Darby? Nowhere in the bible does the word "rapture" appear, muchless the theory behind it...

    Don't get me wrong, I don't want to be "left behind," but I worry about these theories and wonder if they're cleverly disguised workings of self-indulgent egotists looking for fame or at least historical significance. Or was John Nelson Darby touched by God and given prophecy?

  5. In my opinion Christ probably comes for His bride at the sounding of the last trump but this is only my opinion-

    1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    Some are pre-millenialist
    Some are post-millenailist
    I am pan-millenialist- I will wait and see how it pans out
  6. No commentary except to say that the word 'rapture' does not exist in the original manuscripts nor does it exist in the King James Version Bible. This 'theory' was pronounced by an extremely ill patient in the year 1830 and was witnessed by members of the clergy who took it as a sign. The only sign that it should have brough to light is that the pronunciator, Margaret McDonald, was seriously ill. It is NOT scriptural... please read on:
  7. I would just add to Boanerges list...

    some are Amillennialist
    some are Postmillennialist
    some are Historical Premillennialist

    alongside of these is the more recent (since the late 1800's) ideas of the Dispensationalists who differ regarding the Rapture, whether it will take place Pretrib, Midtrib or Posttrib....

    the only point I am making here is to warn against persons assuming that those who do not believe in the "Rapture" concept are somehow less than faithful to the Scriptures or who do not take the Bible “literally" or some such nonsense.... no one in the church held to the views propounded by today's Dispensationalists for almost 2000 years.... and so just because the idea of a Pretrib Premil (with some others holding to Midtrib or Posttrib) seems to be so prevalent among today’s conservative evangelicals... so much so that to doubt or question it seems tantamount to heresy.... it would behoove those who do hold to some form of Dispensationalism (eg as that taught by Dispensationalist LaHaye and the Left Behind series) to not automatically assume that those who say they do not believe in the Rapture concept as being necessarily and automatically less then biblically faithful Christians. Too often I have seen these Dispensationalists just write off everyone that does not agree with them...... when they fail to realize that they are he ones who have the historical novel belief...

    …. as far as the word “rapture†not appearing in the Bible… while that is true… that alone is not sufficient to disprove the doctrine…. Remember, the word “Trinity†does not appear in the Bible either, but that doesn’t mean the doctrine is less than biblical, no matter how hard the Jehovah’s Witnesses and other Arian/Unitarian groups like to point this out….

  8. Another pan man.
    Same here.;)
    I have no issues with rapture "as an opinion or theary" or even as a subject of discussion for that matter. But I do take issue when some, or many now days, pick it up and teach it as biblical doctrine. Especialy when they do so as thought it were in some way a doctrine that one must believe and professes in order to be saved.
  9. Don't have much against the "rapture" doctrine except for one thing.

    When I hear others claim that their reason for inaction is because nothing on the earth is worth fighting for because, in the end, " I'll be taken away from all this before tribulation comes."

    My Bible tell me that we WILL face tribulation and persecution. I believe it is our honor , on this planet and in temporary duty to practice the skills that God has given each one of us, for His glory.

    I further believe that we are to preach the gospel until the acceptible day of the Lord. Not forego our duty until some rapture saves us from the tribulations of this world.

    To me its like some school boy who prays for a snow day because he forgot to do his homework.

    I am sure that this event will take place simply because the word of my God says so but it is a horribly selfish endevor for one of the elect to subjugate his duty.
  10. Whatever God allows He will give us power and grace to endure- It would be an honor to serve Him in any circumstance. Jesus told us that when things get really bad to "look up your redemption draweth nigh" so while the rest of the world trembles the people pf God can rejoice at the nearness of our Lord's return!
  11. I agree... good point Boanerges.... whatever one's eschatolgy is (unless you area Preterist, JW or something like that in your eschatology) we all agree one one thing, Jesus will return again!! And we are to be ever watchful, anticipating the culmiation of history and glorius advent of the kingdom finally fully realized....


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