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The Purpose Of Governments

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by JohnC, Sep 4, 2014.

  1. #1 JohnC, Sep 4, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
    God's earthly government structure is set up to PREVENT the NEED for God to take wrath upon the People....

    Man's earthly government structure is set up to BUFFER the people AGAINST the Deserved Wrath of God!

    I was reading Josephus - and he made a really interesting point about Nimrod and the tower of Babel and it REALLY got me thinking about the Purpose of Government....
    Nimrod: Genesis 10
    Tower of Babel: Genesis 11

    Josephus Antiquities, book 1, Chapter 4, section 2
    "He (Nimrod) also gradually changed the government into tyranny, seeing no other way of turning men from the fear of God, but to bring them into a constant dependence on his power. He also said he would be revenged on God, if he should have a mind to drown the world again; for that he would build a tower too high for the waters to be able to reach! and that he would avenge himself on God for destroying their forefathers"

    Now... Think of our Own Government's actions ... How so many of the purposes of Government are structured to "Buffer" the People from Experiencing the deserved Wrath of God.... Just like Nimrod built a Tower to protect the people against ANOTHER flood.....

    Here are a couple examples....
    Agricultural subsidy to buffer people against the CONSEQUENCES of crop failures
    Banking "Reforms" to buffer people against the CONSEQUENCES of financial failures
    Disaster Relief "Reforms" to buffer people against the CONSEQUENCES of disasters
    Gigantic Military to Buffer people against Consequences of powerful adversaries sent by God...

    But... It NEVER works because God is God and doesn't take orders from US....

    Why not try to push our Government back in the direction of PREVENTING the Wrath of God from Occurring.... That was the direction of the Government in the Torah.... To PREVENT the Need for God to take wrath upon the people.....

  2. Why don't you give an outline of how this government would be set up and what it would do?
  3. Really?

    So what, bad things don't happen to good people?

    Ever read Job?

    Should we do away with medicine too, because sick people are just incurring the wrath of God?
    Chris1 and God is Love say Amen and like this.
  4. Matt 5:45 "...For He makes the sun rise on the evil and on the good, and he sends rain on the just and on the unjust"....

    Don't think that the "Righteous" escape consequences when God sends his wrath upon a society....

    My point is....

    Where should we put our effort?
    Should we put our effort into buffering ourselves against God's righteous wrath against us.... OR should we put our effort into figuring out how to avoid bringing God's wrath upon us in the first place....

    That was the idea behind the passage in Josephus....
    Then as Now - Powerful men will lure us into believing that somehow, they can protect us AGAINST God.....
  5. America has the best form of government bar none, with one and only one exception: the people MUST be moral and participate. Without these, it'll go the way of all of man's government.
    God is Love, Major and dUmPsTeR says Amen and like this.
  6. No this is filled with assumptions. There is no empirical evidence that ordinary natural disasters have any correlation of being taken out on wicked people. The position you take is assuming that all ordinary natural disasters are the same as extraordinary acts of God.

    What your proposing is just superstition.
  7. I disagree. How many other governments have you actually studied? There are enormous problems with the US Government.
  8. I bet that's exactly what Nimrod said as he built the tower of Babel....

    Your statement implies an acceptance of Paley's "Watchmaker" philosophy - that God only does Extraordinary things to sort things out once in a while.... and that He is not controlling the "Ordinary" events as well....
  9. I did caveat... and I didn't say today's example either...
  10. OK, well, first of all, I believe Nimrod's sin was attempting to reach the heavens to elevate himself as high as God. So that kind of megalomania is perhaps a dangerous matter to get involved in.

    But, yes, God is master both of the ordinary and the extraordinary, but in order for the extraordinary acts, such as the Tower of Babel to carry meaning, there must also be the seemingly arbitrary ordinary acts.

    Throughout history, many of Governments have been very wicked and depraved, yet were not destroyed. On the other hand many God fearing nations have suffered. There just is not an empirical correlation for this. And Christ even says, "It is harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God..." this goes in the fact of those who claim that the wealthy have more favor with God. Wealth and poverty is largely arbitrary, but to whom much is given much is expected.

    So for Governments to encourage people to live moral lives, yes, that is perfectly fine, but to not live moral lives does not ensure destruction, nor does living morally ensure the lack of suffering. This is the problem with trying to understand the mind of God, its mysterious and paradoxical so just don't try it.
    Roads likes this.
  11. It's not as if there is not sufficient guidance available through the revelation we already possess.....
  12. Yes, because we all have so much agreement on that. :rolleyes:

    Or maybe we should call back the Pope and apologize for that whole separation of Church and State thing.
  13. Greetings:

    Their purpose is....provide airlines so you can visit Jerusalem,Rome,or where ever.... floats your pew.

  14. When we read the New Testament, we don't see anyone advocating anything like this. The letters to the churches don't say: Let's choose from among ourselves a candidate for a new Caesar, get a bunch of money together, prop him up and start making changes at the government level to force people to lead more moral lives against their will. This is what Paul teaches instead:

    Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities.
    For there is no authority except from God and those which exist are established by God.
    Romans 13:1

    It doesn't seem to be ours, as Christians, to rule over unbelievers, even if we have the best intentions. True transformation comes from the influence of the Spirit in an individual's life. And we, as Christians, should be in the business of changing hearts, not laws.
    C1oudwatch3r likes this.
  15. I think if everything was ran similar to what they were doing in the book of Acts we would have Socialism.

    However, I think any system could work if God was put first, and sin was not in the equation.
  16. Yes there are, but compared to all the others, it is a really good form that we have.
  17. IMO it may be closer to communism than socialism. Just my opinion.
  18. I could see that
  19. I could see that
    Major likes this.
  20. In ancient days, people saw the hand of God everywhere in nature and believed that He was causing natural disasters. It seems to me that today, most people fail to see the hand of God anywhere. Could it be that the truth is somewhere between theses two?

    As a question, is there a correlation between so-called "natural disasters" and breaking the commandments of God? Sometimes both events are found side-by-side on the front page of the newspaper. For example, on June 7, 1998, some Florida newspapers reported the beginning of a huge wild fire in central Florida and also applauded the successful Gay Day celebration at Disney World, also in central Florida, both having occurred on the previous day.

    Now, was that just a coincidence that those events occurred together? Was there a message being sent by God???

    Another example: For example, on Oct. 17, 1989, a magnitude 7.1 earthquake hit San Francisco during a Pro Abortion Rally.

    I would suggest that a lot of thought be given to this. Everyone wants to believe that God speaks but I say that He is talking to us all the time and we just do not want to hear Him.
    C1oudwatch3r and calvin say Amen and like this.

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