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Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by grigoryamitai, Dec 16, 2015.

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  1. What, really, is the "original sin"? How did this affect mankind? Quoting the verse:

    Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
    Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


  2. So this is a loaded question because it has dual affects. My answer requires the reader to meditate on what I say.

    First, what's on a tree? Fruit. What did the fruit contain? DNA. They ate the fruit. That fruit's DNA contained the knowledge on what is good and what is evil. So physically it changed Adam and Eve's DNA so when their offspring came, they had the new rewritten DNA code. Sin comes through the male genes as demonstrated in Jesus needing to be born of a virgin. This DNA code is the word of God as Paul said, the law rose up and I died, and that law is written on our hearts. Without the law "do no covet" we don't know it's a sin. Since Adam ate that knowledge, it became written in our DNA.

    So the other side of the same coin is the disobedience to God. In a nut shell, they didn't believe God's word, which is blasphemy - to say something isn't right when it is. God said "you will die" (in Hebrew "death" is written twice just to emphasis the importance). So this is also why, through Jesus' death, all men are not automatically saved. We need to return to God what man took - that He is correct and we are wrong; His way is the only way.

    That's my take. I hope this helps.
    Ravindran, JG27_chili, Noblemen and 2 others say Amen and like this.
  3. Wow, preach it brother, very powerful, Amen!
    JG27_chili and Abdicate say Amen and like this.
  4. Thanks :) The glory goes to the Lord God Almighty.
    Angela333 likes this.
  5. Wherefore just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, thus death spread to all men, because all sinned.. Romans 5:12.. Judgement came to All men by Adams rebellion and dis obedience, resulting in condemnation the bible says. This is original sin. We ALL died in Adam. ALL are under Gods wrath and judgement the moment of conception. All are without the ability to please God and make ourselves right or justify ourselves before God.. That's original sin! The law is to show our guilt and inability to please God. To bring us to repentance and faith in our Lord Jesus! We are helpless wretched beings. And through the death of Christ, forgiveness comes to a sinner by His blood by means of faith! By His resurrection, life is given by the Life giver Himself to those whom the Lord quickens! Are you in dispair over your sin? Do you mourn over the guilt of your sin? Your disobedience towards God? Do you seek deliverance from your sin and this body of death? Do you seek forgiveness of your sin? Do you see your inability to please God, and to make yourself right or righteous before God? Do you hunger for righteousness? Do you plead for Gods mercy? Mercy mercy mercy!! Do you seek to be found in Christ and take refuge in the Savior?!! Where mercy is found Alone! Christ Jesus! His death and resurrection gives Life and brings forgiveness! The blood and righteousness of Christ Saved a people! His people! That's automatic! And comes by God choosing to show mercy on a sinner by His grace alone! This is good news to the believing! To God alone be the glory in Christ our Lord!!
  6. The very first sin ever committed was by "Lucifer", who later was known as Satan, or the devil. It was Satan (the serpent) who "enticed" Adam and Eve to disobey God, there by sinning also. The "Tree of the knowledge of good and evil" was just a tree like any other in the garden. What set it apart from the rest is that the Lord God chose one tree in the garden to test Adam, and Eve obedience. Anytime you do something that God tells you not to do, that is called "sin".

    Jas 4:17.. Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

    Once you know the will of God, and then you disobey it, that brings "condemnation", "guilt", and "fear" for your actions. The last person you want to see or hear from is God. All these symptoms were manifest in Adam, and Eves life, which is why they hid themselves from God, and sewed fig leaves together in an attempt to cover their shame, and guilt. Fear is the primary manifestation of sin in a persons life. God did not condemn them for their actions, but he did warn them the consequences if they disobeyed. It was their own conscience that brought condemnation. Fear always bring "torment".
    JG27_chili likes this.

  7. DNA Interesting point.
    Are you saying that DNA is transferred through ingestion?
  8. #8 Noblemen, Dec 18, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2015
    I would say "Duel Affects" as well. One would be "disobedience." The other being a "nature" received in the garden. Based on Adam a living soul, (no spirit at the time) his disobedience to the commandment.
    I believe Adam received a nature (sin-spirit-nature), that is the second affect that we are having to deal with today or I should say that Jesus dealt with at the cross. All in Adam are dead, "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and Thou shalt be saved." Of course you must believe to receive the new nature the "Christ nature."
    The original sin! I would say today would be the sin nature.
    "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, ( it doesn't say were made disobedient, it says were made sinners I believe by the sin nature) so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous," ( I believe by the new nature) Romans 5:19.
  9. It happens every time you eat. ;)
  10. The Spirit is the breath of life God gave Adam - they're the exact same word in Hebrew and...

    Gen 2:7 KJV
    And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.​

    Eccl 12:7 KJV
    Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.​
  11. You cannot surmise what the scripture denies .
    Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    The first thing to note is that God made to grow every tree that was pleasant to the sight . God has aesthetics.
    and good for food. Thus we have in general all manner of trees that were good to eat and pleasant or good to the eye .
    THEN in the midst of the garden two other trees one of which was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
    So neither the tree of life or the tree of the knowledge of good and evil "was like any other tree in the garden"
    When God said "of all the trees in the garden you may freely eat" This then included the tree of life. For the only tree they were forbidden to eat was of the tree of the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil.
    To all who say God gave man a free chose to do either good or evil ,I would ask where in scripture at THAT point did he do so?
    What he gave them was the perfect liberty of sons of God (by creation) to eat and therefore to do any good they wold or could find to do . The choice then was theirs what they could eat.
    He did NOT give them the liberty to do evil and thus to eat of the knowlcdge of good and evil.
    He also revealed what HIS will was , That men should LIVE and not die .
    Those who lie and say it was Gods will that men should sin deny scripture .
    For when he said of all the trees in the garden ye may freely eat .This not only included the tree of LIFE ,But he denied them the liberty to do or eat of that tree that would bring them death.
    Some one may ask why then put them there in the first place.
    Wisdom dictated that he did and love dictated that he gave them HIS knowledge of good and evil and by HIS knowledge of what was good and what was evil they lived .
    For man shall not live by every tree that was good to eat ,but by that word that came forth out of his mouth as to what was good to eat and therefor good to do and what was evil to eat and therefor to do .
    It was the rejection of Gods Word as to what was good and what was evil that they died .
    Doing that which was right or good in their own eyes .
    For it is written "Eve SAW that the tree was good for food and pleasant to the eye " she reasoned thus "it would make her wise" and she did eat .
    Thus before they ate or partook of the tree of life they partook of the tree that brought them death.
    it is worth noting that they ate of the fruit of that tree and as it is also written that "and the fruit yiilding fruit after its kind ,who's seed was in it self" Gen 1:12

    Thus their perceptions and their reasoning was corrupted for they both saw and reasoned according to what was right or good in their own eyes .
    This then continued when their eyes were opened and they saw they were naked and were ashamed .So they covered themselves in fig leaves which in THEIR eyes did indeed cover their nakedness and they reasoned then all was well .
    till the time came when the voice of the Lord God" as was his custom" walked in the cool of the evening and sought them out .
    Your right when you say when men sin we all become cowards and foolishly seek to hide from God. But when God called "where art thou" it was not because he did not know where they were . He wanted them to understand where they were.
    So he called them from the darkness of where they were hiding into his presence which is light .
    and with eyes from whom nothing is hid saw that the fig leaves did not cover their nakedness .
    Im not sure you can say God did not condemn their actions . What he did was show them mercy and gave them a covering of animal skins that in Gods eyes DID cover their nakedness.
    and in doing so laid down the principle that the innocent would die for the guilty and foreshadowed not only the animal sacrifices as laid down in law by Moses to the Jews . But also "the Lamb of God that would take away the sin of the world"
    "for without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin"

    Gods eternal will is that man " should not perish but have everlasting life "
    First by the Lord God who gave them free access to the tree of life .
    Then by Him whom God sent " that whosoever should believe on Him shall not perish but have ever lasting life"
    If you reject the truth you will believe a lie and once you believe the lie you become blind to the truth .
    Man in of and by himself is blind lost and without hope and without God .
    Doing that which is right or good in his own eyes and subjecting all to his own reasoning and perceptions and by so doing not only does not the will of God but is at emnity with God .
    When a man is truly God and heaven sent BORN again,he does but enter the eternal will of God preordained from before the foundations of the world .
    The original sin?
    Is when the father of this generation the first Adam corrupted himself and all his seed with him and became subject to sin and death.
    The image of God with which he was CREATED in was marred and or lost and all his seed are BORN in his image or as the scripture puts it "shapen in iniquity"
    When his children were not born under the blessing of God in the garden . But under the curse outside the garden.
    and are by nature "children of wrath " the sons of disobedience"

    In Christ
  12. Your DNA is not changed by what you eat .
    Nor was there DNA changed by doing evil.
    Death is not due to a change in DNA but in being cut off from God at the root .

    in Christ
  13. Gen 1:12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

    Do you see anywhere in this verse were God said, all the trees were good except for one?
  14. I invite you to do some research on DNA. I was going to be a biochemist before I got the computer bug. There are spiritual effects on the physical and vice versa, according to the word of God brother. Have you never heard the phrase "You are what you eat"?

    To be precise, DNA is a lot like a bank of light switches where "something" turns them on or off and that changes how it works. For years scientists have been trying to find out WHY the process of the death of a cell is turned off - aka cancer. Eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil either turned on/off something in our DNA or it added new switches. We have the ability to flip these switches. This is a scientific fact and fully supported in the scriptures. I hope you do some research.
  15. Do you see where God in that verse planted a garden? or do you see only that the earth brought forth?
    I also did not say that the tree was evil .
    I said or rather the scriptures says indirectly that it was evil to eat of its fruit. Or are you suggesting it was a good thing to eat?

    God is a God of order .
    First he created the HEAVEN and the EARTH.
    It was not heaven that was in darkness but the earth.
    First the earth was put in order then each part of its creation in its order .
    One all was done .THEN God planted a garden east in Eden.
    THEN he caused every tree that was good to eat and pleasant to the eye .
    Then in the midst of the garden two trees ,The tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

    in Christ
  16. My research is in scripture.
    and while there are things to learn with DNA.
    It will not nor cannot override scripture .
    "The kingdom of God is NOT in meat and drink" says the scriptures
    and if then it is anything it is that "man shall not live by bread alone but by every Word that proceedeth form the mouth of God"
    The bread of this world cannot then effect the DNA of a person as you so argue .
    By your argument if we can change the DNA by scientific manipulation or by 'what you eat' Then man could think he can undo the Word of God .
    the reason why people die is simple . He has sinned and sins because he is a sinner .
    The only remedy for sin is the blood of Jesus Christ .
    If then by your argument a man eateth and drinketh of my body and blood a man will live forever.
    But as you should know that it is unlawful to eat and drink the blood .
    You suggest by your science that it is possible to 'flip those switches'
    Then by your argument you dont need Jesus . and your faith is in "so called science" to flip the switch?
    So what you call scientific fact is neither supported by scripture nor I would warrant true as you make it out to be .
    Sin and the nature of man is deeper than DNA .
    Man is a tri part being .
    God is Spirit .
    and it is because man is cut off from God by his sin like a tree cut from its roots that he dies .
    No manipulation of DNA will can does or even should 'move' or change Gods law of sin and death.

    in Christ
  17. Thank you, good answer for I'm sure you know where I was going.

    If life is in the blood and it is in 'perfect' order then the only way for corruption of that order is to change it.
    How does eating something make someone realize they are naked and cause shame?
  18. The creation is not God and only God is incorruptable .
    You say " IF the life is in the blood " But the scriptures say that long after the creation after the flood and in the time of Moses .
    Therefore the truth was in the beginning when man was created and was also much later and even now when man was corrupted.

    How does eating something make someone realise they are naked and ashamed ?
    Simple really and I suggest you consider what it was they ate and why .

    in Christ
  19. Adam, and Eve died spiritually the day they ate. They did not die physically for 800+ years later. Man was originally "crowned with Glory ,and honor", until they sinned and fell short of the Glory of God and lost that crown. It was that Glory that surrounded them as clothing! The "robes of white" that we wear as Christians are not robes of the color white, as the word "white" means, "light". We wear robes of "light"
  20. What was the fruit they ingested? Fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That knowledge was obtained by ingesting the fruit. What happens when we eat? Some food is burned up for pure fuel purposes. Some food is stored for future use. Some food is broken down and added to the body to the level of amino acids and proteins and proteins build the enzymes that are "coded" for a specific function.

    The best analogy is a computer virus. The code is added to the base code and the new code corrupts and changes the original code. How do I know this applies to us? DNA is information, this is a known fact. So, science can dismiss DNA as being 70% "junk code" but the word of God says otherwise. How so? Because Paul says the word of God is written on our hearts. Our heart isn't speaking of the pump in our chest, but the DNA in our cells. Listen, I don't claim to know everything, but the more we learn about God's creation the more we can relate to God and His Word for He holds everything together. Whoever said that there is a dividing line where "this" is spiritual and "this" is physical and the two shall never meet, doesn't know what they're talking about. So, by the word of God all things were made, visible and invisible. That word holds all things together physical and spiritual. That's the Word of God. Jesus. Before Jesus was born, does John's words about the Word at creation, make it any less a truth if it was said before John's writings?

    So if I said that the rock in the corner of the room will kill you, eventually, without it ever moving, you'd think me mad. I would say, that the frequency of that rock will kill you. Again you'd think me mad, rocks don't have frequencies. Then I tell you that rock is radioactive, now you understand. If I told you before you learned about radiation, would that make my statement any less true? What's the difference? Your understanding of something you never knew about. We know about radiation because people died from it and someone else figured it out, as they died from it too. That's what learning about God's creation is all about, for us to learn of Him and give Him all the glory.

    Every letter, every word, every paragraph, chapter, page and book of the word of God has a very specific meaning. We are to learn from it and obey it. It states that we are to learn of His creation. How the universe was made, the jet streams, the ocean currents, and millions of other "things" are all written in the word of God and a many great early scientists were Christians and their breakthroughs were "discovered" because they believed the word of God first, and then wanted to learn more so they studies and learned more about God, and man was in awe of Him (The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom - fear = awe). And by their discoveries, men were blessed and now could use that information in their lives from what was written in the word of God. So what better tool for the devil to use than to hijack the study of God's creation and have all its minions declare God non-existent, that way, His followers would stop learning about it and reject everything those that are studying it when they talk about His creation.

    So what is one supposed to do. Study through the eyes of the Holy Spirit and let Him sort it out what is truth, that's our promise about the Holy Spirit, He will teach us in all truth. Does it matter one way or the other if am I right or wrong, not one bit. I shared what I thought could be an eye-opening thing to those wanting to learn more about the reality of the scriptures in our every day lives. Faith isn't blind, faith is being fully persuaded.

    I hope this helps.
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