The One Baptism of Ephesians 4

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Complete, Aug 14, 2016.

  1. #21 Major, Sep 9, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2016
    I am Absolutely blessed to respond to your comment. My 1st thought Samuels is to ask you if you believe in and accept the Trinity?

    Now I am well aware of the prohibition on "glossia" and I have tried to stay away from it as it seems to always lead into confrontations. I hope that does not happen here with you as I am not going to argue, only state Biblical truths.

    Please note that I am not the one who is asking but in fact it is my brother Samuels. What I am going to say it not meant to accuse anyone or any denomination but instead is simply a statement of fact.

    So then, what we have here is that the bottom line fact which is actually very simple. You my friend are coming at this discussion from the viewpoint of Pentecostal theology. Pentecostal theology teaches the Baptism in the Holy Spirit (or Baptism with the Holy Spirit) is a definite experience, not identical with conversion (Acts 19:2). Pentecostals have traditionally believed that the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is physically evidenced by the supernatural gift of speaking in other tongues (glossolalia). That is, a person who is baptized with the H.S. will speak in "glosssia".

    Now the problem with that teaching IMHO is that it ultimately and logically leads to the belief that because I do speak in "glossia" I am a saved man therefore I am better than or on a higher plane of Christianity or I am closer to God than are other people. Just to prove that is true, take notice of your exact words........
    "It is a terrible shame that you had a poor (non-lasting) pentecostal experience!
    But, of course, this was not God’s fault, nor was it mine."

    Do you see the problem here???? You just did what I explained and this is not the 1st time you have done that. You see, you have no idea what my experiences were. You are judging others by your experience and the Bible no where says that we are saved by experiences. That kind of thinking flies in the face of Bible truth.

    Acts 10:34.......
    "So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality"

    Paul confirms that in Rom. 2:11...........,
    " For there is no partiality with God."

    Just to nail this down we have a 3rd Apostle who agree and says the same thing in James 2:1-4..........
    My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality. For if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes, and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, “You sit here in a good place,” and say to the poor man, “You stand there,” or, “Sit here at my footstool,” have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?"

    SamueI, want you to use a little logic here. If the Bible records that people spoke in tongues when the Holy Spirit came upon them as you believe and is taught by your faith, does it mean that everyone must then speak in tongues when the Holy Spirit comes upon them? That is what you are saying my brother.
    But what does the Bible actually say????????

    1 Corth. 12:30...................
    "All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? But earnestly desire the greater gifts,"

    You see Samuel, if we are going to say that all people speak in tongues, why is it also not said that all people have gifts of healing and interpretation? What the verse is talking about, Samuel, is gifting in the Christian church. That is what is being taught and different people have different gifts but salvation is not based on what we can do but instead completely on what Christ has done.

    Ephesian 2:8-9...............
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast."

    When anyone says that they are saved "because" they speak in another language which no one can interpret, then that my dear brother is in fact boasting and it also is an act of believing they are thought more of by God which is the act of "favoritism".

    So in in just these Two examples I have shown you the Bible reason why I do not accept the teaching you are proposing. Now if you or anyone else chooses to do those things then by all means go right ahead and do them. However you are not doing them because the Bible directs you to do so But for you own sake, do not think less of those who chose to not do them because the fact is that we are just as much a saved person as are you. Not because we can "choose" to do anything at all but because we have believed upon the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour as the only thing need to be saved.

    Always glad to speak with you and I hope this answer is helpful if nothing else it allows you to understand where I am coming from in my understanding.
    You will no doubt not agree and that is absolutely OK. That should not deter us being believers in the Lord Jesus Christ as our hope for glory.

    Samuel, you asked and I explained. There is really nothing more I can add so this is my last comment in this conversation.

    I hope that this is acceptable to our moderators but if it is thought to be offensive or confrontational or breaks the rules on conversation please delete the whole thing.
  2. See comment #21.

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