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The Mistake Of Adam

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by .:Shine:., Oct 31, 2013.

  1. Often times when we read Genesis 3 we read that Eve was the one that was tricked first and ultimately caused the fall of man. But let me ask you a question. Where is Adam, while the serpent is tempting Eve? He's standing right there: "She also gave some to her husband, who was with her. Then he ate it too" (Gen 3:6 NLT) The Hebrew for "with her" means right there, elbow to elbow. Adam isn't away in another part of the forest; he has no alibi. He is standing right there, watching the whole thing unravel. What does he do? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. He says not a word, doesn't lift a finger. He won't risk, he won't fight, and he won't rescue Eve.

    Our first father- the first real man- gave in to paralysis. He denied his very nature and went passive. And every man after him, every son of Adam, carries in his heart now the same failure. Every man repeats the sin of Adam, every day. We won't risk, we won't fight, and we won't rescue Eve.

    *This isn't meant to be a preaching, just something interesting that i found. If it was a preaching, i would want to end with something more positive.
    th1bill likes this.
  2. Shine, interesting ideas but I’m not sure I agree. Why would the serpent talk to Eve, not Adam? True, Adam was with Eve when she ate, but perhaps not when she was tempted.

    And what do you mean by “the first real man”?
  3. Eve was deceived. Adam willfully ate knowing it to be wrong.

    There is a scripture in the second testament saying so. I'll try and find it. I think it's in Timothy.
  4. 1st Timothy 2:14
  5. It's the same area of the bible women have a hard time with because it says women are not to teach or be in authority over a man.
    1st Timothy 2:12
  6. Shine, that's something I've noticed before.
    That, along with the overly emphasis laid on Eve's sin by the up till now mostly male-led churches.
    Just observing.

    Adam was RIGHT THERE. But how do you know he goes in against his nature by not doing anything? How do you know he was paralysed?
    And like no-one, I do wonder why Eve was the one that could be tempted, and Adam not. Do you think a hint towards the answer could be found if we looked at modern day men and women with open minds and open hearts?
    Up to that point, Eve was not the 'lesser one'. Adam only 'got' to 'rule over her' as her punishment. Since Eve was punished with the gender-based 'weaknesses' we know, I suspect so was Adam. What is the result of the Fall, what is nature, as in how God intended it?
    Eve can still be deceived, but guess what: so can Adam. Eve could be deceived in that particular situation. Adam has other areas in which he can be corrupted.

    I sort of wish this whole fall from grace thing could have happened later, so I could read more about how life was in Paradise!

    And Dumpster, Timothy kind of is Paul referring back to Genesis and not Genesis itself. And it does actually NOT say women can never have authority over a man. It says we can not hold spiritual power over a man, which is, as far as I have discovered, a thing associated with paganism, black magic and the like. I'm fine with that. Christian faith floats on love and free will, so technically any Christian who holds that kind of power over anyone is going in against what the Bible teaches us.
    Besides: I wouldn't exactly say wilfully doing wrong is better than being deceived.
  7. I'm not Shine but I am an old man that is guilty of being amused, delighted and disappointed with watching men and women for these past, almost, 69 years and having observed, I have a good deal of experiance with which to form an answer to this question. When I was young, I learned that if a body attacks you, take him out by striking his weakest point... stomp his foot... hard and he goes straight down or onto one leg and is defenseless, no matter which.

    When I was in the Army, in Vietnam, I learned that if a man shot at my ship, if I poured .30 caliber rounds out of my M60 machine gun, he would stop that nonsense, in most cases except he or she had many friends supporting his or her fire power.

    When I came home I was hated and did not care what people thought and as a result, being a Carpenter, learned that if I built the easy part first, I could attach the harder, more difficult portions of the house to the standing parts and get the tough parts erected with just myself and two other men, of like mind.

    Satan, all through the scriptures is shown to be crafty and without principal. The Spirit World is more like, what we call the Natural World, than we are willing to admit and Satan, rather obviously, knew Eve did not have the Command, delivered to her husband, committed to memory and was therefore easy to confound her as opposed to Adam.

    Hope this helps.
  8. I will not banter about with this topic with you Busydarling. I feel it would be un-fruitful. Just please understand, that I don't try wielding power....I have none.....I'm working on humility, love, and giving. I am happy that we both are trying to focus on God, and I'll leave it at that.
    .:Shine:. likes this.
  9. Not every thread i get into or start am i looking to back up my points or looking to debate. I actually hate debate. I think it drives people away from the church and does a lot more harm than good.

    So the questions asked at me, i believe that when a question isn't answered, it leaves the person who asked in a position to find the truth for themselves. And often times when we are put in that position, we find a lot more than what we had originally sought out to find.

    Blessings and peace,
    dUmPsTeR likes this.
  10. Not so sure I get it, because it doesn't explain why Adam failed if he had that Command you're talking about.
  11. Shine and Dumpster, I am not really looking for debate, I am looking for a way to learn. I am only sharing what I think I had learned; as a way to learn together I think.
    dUmPsTeR likes this.
  12. I'll try to shed a little light, if you'll permit. As recorded in the scripture, God told Adam not to eat of the tree, not Eve. Now, if you'll permit, we'll need to go extra-biblical and consider a human trait that has been, much, examined. In Jr. High a teacher lined our class up and whispered a descriptive sentence of herself to the first person in the line. The instruction was to repeat the statement to the next person in line, exactly as it had been heard.

    I recall that there were 24 or 25 students in that class. Our teacher, before class, had recorded the statment on the chalk board and then covered it. When the last student, a young lady, was asked what she had heard, the statement was nothing like what the first first student had heard and it no longer contained Mrs. Pazderni's name, nor was it about her. When she uncovered the Chalk Board, everyone was amazed.

    If we look at what is recorded of God told Adam and compare it with what Eve told Satan, it is close but it is wrong, also. What God gave to Adam was a command and if you will, I consider it the first Commandment God gave to man. The only question, I find, about this issue is, did Adam add to the command, did Eve or did they both mix it with their own thoughts? I find the latter to be the most likely.

    Now. please, assuming you, like myself, have chosen the Pure Word over any of the convolution the New Testament and the New Covenant Christians have committed by never considering that the New Testament is not recorded to explain the proper use of the Bible Jesus taught from. Every one of them, the JWs and the Mormons I have ever run into are lost for words when I use the Old Testament as the bases for the New and they seldom are willing to reengage me in a face to face engagement because I have confused them. I suggest the same might be true, remember might be, in the case of the engagement between Eve and Satan. And through all of this, Adam just stood there.
  13. Ok, but that only makes it worse than Adam stood there and Adam ate....
  14. I smell the scent of expected deceit. I'm so old my T levels die years ago and with that. all, ego passes away without even a kick. Man has never been conemned for Eve being deceived, Adam sinned and it has been recorded that men might read and learn.

    I was spit on. directly between my eyes, when I exited the Army because I believed that the Little People of South Vietnam deserved the right to determine their own form of Government. I was willing to get killed fighting for that and I have always been willing to die defending my wife and my children. Many, many men and women have called me a fool, since November, 1969 but the truth is found in the story of the fall of Adam, if we will just read what God had recorded;.

    The lost man and woman will hear what I have just explained to you and again, call me a fool. They do not have the light of the Holy Spirit to lead them. God bless.
  15. One of my current 'things' is trying to untangle the truth from what Man has done to it and with it.
    I have no intention to place women above men, after all, we were created as humankind, both male and female, in the image of God. I have no intention to 'talk down' men, like they have done to women for ages.

    I am just shocked to learn how much the Bible has been used by men to dominate over women in a negative way, blaming them for all evil and just ignoring their part in it. ADAM WAS THERE AND ADAM ATE.(Ok, that's a bit strongly put perhaps, but to illustrate). The Bible teaches me something different about men and women than Christian society does. I am shocked, and I am angry: how can one abuse the Word of God in such a way? And why?

    I feel like women have to deal with Eve's punishment day after day, while men? Not so much. And I mean, this is over 2000 years after Jesus died for our sins.

    If men really are strong leaders, why do they break us down? If men are the ones in control of themselves, then why do I get hooted at by something that is controlled by his, er, little brain?

    "Dear Adam,

    It has been a very long time since the Fall. I have been weakened by the Lord's punishment for my sin, and I am confronted with it still on an almost daily basis. My body reminds me of it. My mind reminds me of it. You remind me of it. And maybe it's only now that I understand why you ruling over me is a punishment.
    You seem to have gotten off easy. I doubt it: look closer. Look at what you've done in the meantime. Look at what my punishment has done to you.
    It's been ages. I still can't count on you. You're still getting a kick out of the 'ruling' part. You still haven't grown into a man, able to govern with wisdom, who understands the difference between ruling and bullying.
    I am still waiting. Jesus has died. Jesus saw me, the woman.
    Please. Stop letting me down. I was made because you needed me. And I know, I have my fair share of wrong doing, I am sorry for that, but in making things right we both need to step up. I can't do much in this respect without you.
    Show me you still are the man as God intended, complementary to the woman God intended me to be.

    calvin likes this.
  16. BD,
    All, very, valid points and it is great to see that you, like myself, are looking for answers. There are many lenses to view this issue through but one, I was, as a young buck, amused about the basic design God used. Men reach their sexual peak at, about, 17 to 19 year of age. Ladies reach it in their mid-thirties, I'm taught... just as the man is noticing his decline in sexual prowess.

    And while this is happening the lady has matured in her, very late to early twenties but the love of her life will not, possibly, mature until his mid to late thirties. As a singer, on stage, I used these set of truths as a humor until I was nearly forty. The man, in scripture, is taught to study his wife, every day of his and her lives. And since God expects us to think logically, the same about studying her husband is true. It has been my experience that our ladies tend to pick this truth of logic about commands given to the man up much, much more quickly than men do.

    All of this being true, a lens that must be applied to this is God's omniscience. It is a much ignored truth but God knew we, both sexes would have these issues, long, before He created us. So it is imperative for the man to study his wife to be, truly, blessed and the same for his mate. If we both do this, in love, the lady will help her mate to grow, as our Father meant it to be, and the man will strive, always, to do everything, and I do mean everything, he can for his mate.

    Young men, men under 60, have very fragile egos and have grown. overly, sensitive about it because we have, by and large, chosen to be unequally yoked. Today, I saw on TV a report about a mother that made her child a KKK garb for his Trick or Treat venture. She ¨claims¨ to be Christian and, totally, misused the scripture to justify the costume, saying that God means for white to stick to white and black to black. There are a wide variety of possible applications for this passage until we place it inside the intended context. But just as mankind has ripped this out of context, we have, as a people, done the same thing to all of the directions about our relationships to our mates

    For every one of the directions, commands, if I may, about our wives submitting to us, there is an equal command for men to live by, as well as, also, realizing the commands for our wives also apply to us. Just as I know my wife is totally committed to me, I also made that commitment. I have never found it a requirement to be concerned when a past motorcycle club friend shows up and she greet them with a hug and she has never hesitated to leave me alone with one of the girls in our Church Family when I am rebuilding their computers. There is no question of our loyalty because both of us have placed Jesus, first in our lives and we refuse to disappoint Him.

    You keep at it, please and you can help God grow His children. God bless.
    .:Shine:. and BusyDarling say Amen and like this.
  17. thank you for your wonderful answer!!
  18. Then why start a controversial discussion?

    What you said in your OP contradicts with what Paul says in 1 Tim 2:13-14 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

    No-one, made a valid point and I would like to hear you answer his question in post #2.
  19. It was originally designed to be just food for thought.

    I'm not doubting the validity of the Word, but... yeah... lets figure this out together eh?
    Adam was RIGHT THERE... how can that mean that he was not deceived then?
  20. The answer is in Gen 3:17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’.

    Adam was not decieved by the devil / believe the devils lie, but he did disobey God / sin by doing what Eve suggested http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/men-will-never-learn.35673/ ;).
    th1bill likes this.

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