The Letter Kills But The Spirit Gives Life

Lets look a little further..

1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

A grace of wisdom given to Paul to build the Church.

1Co 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Here Paul describes "grace" as making him all that he was as an Apostle and servant of the truth. He also gives credit to grace alone as that which empowered him unto his labors.

2Co 8:6 Insomuch that we desired Titus, that as he had begun, so he would also finish in you the same grace also.
7 ¶ Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.
2Co 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

Here Paul speaks of this particular grace of giving and the work of grace in giving and receiving.

2Co 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

Here I believe it is clear that Paul is showing us a many sided aspect of Gods grace "all" as in every kind, is clearly the intention of this scripture.

I could go on but I believe that makes a solid biblical witness.


I agree with all that you said with one comment...The 'grace' that He built with as a 'wise' master builder is spiritual grace...


( 7 ¶ Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.

That is why we 'abound' through the power of the Holy Spirit:

Rom 15:13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.


Grace is the power of the Holy Spirit...and i can give you many examples of this:

How we ‘believe through’:
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Rom 15:13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

What we are ‘justified by’:
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified
in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


The covenant we are ‘under’:
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

What we ‘receive’:
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus
Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of
the grace that should come unto you:

Our ‘teacher’:
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Our ‘adoption’:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

What Jesus was ‘full of’:
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Luk 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness

There are a lot more of these but I am sure you get the relationship between grace and the Holy Spirit...The grace that God gives to us is spiritual gifts not carnal gifts, that is why we are to desire 'spiritual gifts':

1Co 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

And not store up 'earthly treasure but set our heart on Heavenly treasure...We are warned about those who suppose 'gain is godliness'...


TC
 
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I agree with all that you said with one comment...The 'grace' that He built with as a 'wise' master builder is spiritual grace...


( 7 ¶ Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.

That is why we 'abound' through the power of the Holy Spirit:

Rom 15:13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.


Grace is the power of the Holy Spirit...and i can give you many examples of this:

How we ‘believe through’:
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Rom 15:13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

What we are ‘justified by’:
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified
in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


The covenant we are ‘under’:
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

What we ‘receive’:
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus
Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of
the grace that should come unto you:

Our ‘teacher’:
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Our ‘adoption’:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

What Jesus was ‘full of’:
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Luk 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness

There are a lot more of these but I am sure you get the relationship between grace and the Holy Spirit...

TC
I have made clear that Grace is a Spirit..and it is the Spirit...so not sure if you are looking to find a place to disagree? Or trying to agree? You seem to be trying to correct me while trying to agree with me?
 
I have made clear that Grace is a Spirit..and it is the Spirit...so not sure if you are looking to find a place to disagree? Or trying to agree? You seem to be trying to correct me while trying to agree with me?


I thought you were trying to say that 'gifts of grace' from God were carnal gifts... I must have misunderstood you... Sorry :)

TC
 
I thought you were trying to say that 'gifts of grace' from God were carnal gifts... I must have misunderstood you... Sorry :)

TC
What?? yes you for sure have misunderstood... no problem, we all can fail to see the intention of what others are trying to say at times. But that would be the very last thing that I would think someone would get out of what I have written on this thread?
 
The Natural man "receives not" the things of God, but the Spirit teaches us the things that are freely given to us by God. The difference between law and grace, the letter and the Spirit, can be found in this truth? The carnal mind of man is yet in bondage with the Adamic mindset? That a man must strive in this world to attain, that one must work to earn the blessing of God. When the Holy Spirit teaches a believer, He teaches based upon God's supply toward us. He teaches us based upon the fact that God has already supplied us all things that pertain to life and godliness. God has already done all the work, and we are to step into the supply of the Spirit of Grace.

Paul, said he labored more abundantly than all the others, yet not him but the grace of God that was with him. Sweat is and was a picture of the curse that came upon man at the fall. The priest in the temple was not allowed to wear anything that would cause them to sweat, because that represented the curse upon man. The Lord sweat drops of His Blood in the "garden'' to redeem us from the anxiety and strife of that curse that is upon all men. Now Paul labored in the grace of God...and the sweat-band from his head, now delivered those in sickness and under bondage to demonic powers.

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Maybe this will help?
 
Maybe this will help?

The reason I thought you were trying to say that grace comes in carnal gifts is because of this quote in one of your posts...

"There is a working of grace in every aspect of our lives, finance, health, wisdom, etc.. Everything God gives is a "grace" and is according to grace".

My point was that God's gifts of grace are not carnal/material things...though we may receive 'carnal' finances or material things from someone because of the 'spiritual' gifts of grace that are in them.

We are warned about 'supposing gain is godliness' -that is how today's false prophets have turned people into 'merchandise'. That is where discernment comes in...Having said that-

Ultimately, 'grace' is God's love put into our hearts by the Holy Spirit and manifested in our lives...

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his
bowels of compassion
from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?


God Bless,
TC
 
The reason I thought you were trying to say that grace comes in carnal gifts is because of this quote in one of your posts...

"There is a working of grace in every aspect of our lives, finance, health, wisdom, etc.. Everything God gives is a "grace" and is according to grace".

My point was that God's gifts of grace are not carnal/material things...though we may receive 'carnal' finances or material things from someone because of the 'spiritual' gifts of grace that are in them.

We are warned about 'supposing gain is godliness' -that is how today's false prophets have turned people into 'merchandise'. That is where discernment comes in...Having said that-

Ultimately, 'grace' is God's love put into our hearts by the Holy Spirit and manifested in our lives...

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his
bowels of compassion
from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?


God Bless,
TC
Again you seem to want to correct me in some way? The grace of God does very much bring the material needs we have..(ye have not because you ask not) I have already presented scriptures that prove that point. I have in no way suggested a covetous doctrine in regards to anything I have taught on this thread? So again I must wonder at your attempt to correct me in some way?

1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, (maybe I should be correcting you?)
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
6 ¶ But godliness with contentment is great gain.
7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Are you trying to make this charge against me?
 
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Again you seem to want to correct me in some way? The grace of God does very much bring the material needs we have..I have already presented scriptures that prove that point. I have in no way suggested a covetous doctrine in regards to anything I have taught on this thread? So again I must wonder at your attempt to correct me in some way?

1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
6 ¶ But godliness with contentment is great gain.
7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Are you trying to make this charge against me?


Not trying to make any charge at all... Just saying that God's grace is spiritual in nature and in no way a carnal gift.

We do receive 'carnal' gifts from those who have been given God's spiritual grace, but that is a reflection of the grace in them Grace itself is spiritual not carnal. Grace is the power of God unto salvation...I think you know what I mean- but the way I am saying it might be throwing you off..Please don't be offended, I am not trying to accuse you, just clarifying what you mean by the statement..

"The grace of God does very much bring the material needs we have"..

TC
 
Not trying to make any charge at all... Just saying that God's grace is spiritual in nature an in no way a carnal gift.

We do receive 'carnal' gifts from those who have been given God's spiritual grace, but that is a reflection of the grace in them Grace itself is spiritual not carnal. Grace is the power of God unto salvation...
Well if you call Gods Blessing and supply of our needs "carnal" you do not understand the grace of God... Now if you are trying to paint me with some brush of those who teach covetousness? Then you are making a mistake and you are in great error.
 
Php 4:17 Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.
18 But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.
19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

This is grace!
 
Well if you call Gods Blessing and supply of our needs "carnal" you do not understand the grace of God... Now if you are trying to paint me with some brush of those who teach covetousness? Then you are making a mistake and you are in great error.

No- I am saying that suppose you have a 'need'-you pray to God for that need, and it is supplied to you in some fashion, That is God answering your prayer no doubt..but the grace that Paul 'laboured by' is the power of God- a spiritual gift by which He is able to 'do all things' like be strengthened...comforted, content, preach, exhort, be patient..things that come with the grace of God. Anyway, I am not going to get into a conversation that causes strife, so I am going to bow out and say I appreciate the posts you have on here I was glad to see someone have an understanding such as yours...God Bless,

TC
 
No- I am saying that suppose you have a 'need'-you pray to God for that need, and it is supplied to you in some fashion, That is God answering your prayer no doubt..but the grace that Paul 'laboured by' is the power of God- a spiritual gift by which He is able to 'do all things' like be strengthened...comforted, content, preach, exhort, be patient..things that come with the grace of God. Anyway, I am not going to get into a conversation that causes strife, so I am going to bow out and say I appreciate the posts you have on here I was glad to see someone have an understanding such as yours...God Bless,

TC
No your clearly wrong! I have proven it in the scriptures. When God supplies our needs according to His riches in glory...that is grace, like I have already shown.

2Co 8:6 Insomuch that we desired Titus, that as he had begun, so he would also finish in you the same grace also.
7 ¶ Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.
2Co 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
 
Php 4:17 Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.
18 But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.
19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

This is grace!

I agree with you that is grace...the 'fruit' he was talking about though was not bananas, but fruit of the Spirit...We are not to seek after the things the gentiles seek. God already knows our needs:

Mat 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
Mat 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.


And He fulfills them through the church:

Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
Act 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Anyway, I am getting off, just wanted to respond to that before I did...

TC
 
I agree with you that is grace...the 'fruit' he was talking about was not bananas but fruit of the Spirit- How God supplies all of our needs...We are not to seek after the things the gentiles seek after God already knows our needs:

Mat 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
Mat 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.


And He fulfills them through the church:

Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
Act 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Anyway, I am getting off, just wanted to respond to that before I did...

TC
I don't understand what point your trying to make or if your just trying to seem correct in some way? The scriptures I have used make my points and are clear as day as to what I am speaking of... the true grace of God. So I wonder why you are trying to teach me, as if I need your instruction? I think maybe you should become a student for a while, and you seem in need of some correction in your understanding. This whole pride thing that happens on these forums, is so disappointing and hinders so many from growing in grace and knowledge.
 
All things that pertain to life and Godliness are given to us, and its all called "grace" according to the scriptures. Now I understand why some have reservations about doctrines that promote covetousness. But covetousness and the desires to covet are not with those who teach the true grace of God. It is those who teach this mixture of law and grace that are drawn into covetousness. The strength of sin is the law, the commandment "thou shalt not covet" produces all manner of lust in those who look to the commandment, then they use the doctrines of grace to explain away and cover these same lust. If the true grace of God is understood, the desire to covet will lose its power and a new heart of love "that gives" will be established in the believer.
 
All things that pertain to life and Godliness are given to us, and its all called "grace" according to the scriptures. Now I understand why some have reservations about doctrines that promote covetousness. But covetousness and the desires to covet are not with those who teach the true grace of God. It is those who teach this mixture of law and grace that are drawn into covetousness. The strength of sin is the law, the commandment "thou shalt not covet" produces all manner of lust in those who look to the commandment, then they use the doctrines of grace to explain away and cover these same lust. If the true grace of God is understood, the desire to covet will lose its power and a new heart of love "that gives" will be established in the believer.


This is a response to both of your posts...It is clear that you don't understand what I am saying. I don't think that we 'disagree' on what grace is. Grace is the spiritual power of God influencing our lives and manifested in our behavior. Those who have been set free by grace are no longer under the 'works of the flesh'( covetousness being one of them). I was simply saying that a person who exhibits covetousness is still in bondage to the flesh and has not been set free by the spiritual grace of God. I think we believe the same thing...though I think that we have different perspectives on how God's spiritual grace is manifested in His church...and that was the point I was making. Not saying you are right or wrong- I was just trying to clarify what you believed grace to be and how it is manifested on the Earth as well as what I believe the word says about the manifestations of His grace..Hope that makes things clear and does not cause you strife...

Take care and great grace unto you...
TC
 
Hey Mitspa

On another note- how do you think we 'grow' in grace( use scripture for your explanation please). I am really interested to see if we have the same thoughts on that, given grace is spiritual and we grow stronger spiritually as a result of our growth...

TC
 
This is a response to both of your posts...It is clear that you don't understand what I am saying. I don't think that we 'disagree' on what grace is. Grace is the spiritual power of God influencing our lives and manifested in our behavior. Those who have been set free by grace are no longer under the 'works of the flesh'( covetousness being one of them). I was simply saying that a person who exhibits covetousness is still in bondage to the flesh and has not been set free by the spiritual grace of God. I think we believe the same thing...though I think that we have different perspectives on how God's spiritual grace is manifested in His church...and that was the point I was making. Not saying you are right or wrong- I was just trying to clarify what you believed grace to be and how it is manifested on the Earth as well as what I believe the word says about the manifestations of His grace..Hope that makes things clear and does not cause you strife...

Take care and great grace unto you...
TC
thank you town..and it did seem as if you were trying to find a fault.. Teaching and declaring this doctrine, I get a lot of folks who want to agree only to disagree.. Its a little confusing sometimes, what point some are trying to make? I have had people repeat back to me what I have posted as if they are trying to teach me what I first posted...you know how it goes on these forums? God bless and may the Lords Grace always be with you- Mitspa
 
Here is an interesting note made on my reading;

Le 5:7 ¶ And if he be not able to bring a lamb, then he shall bring for his trespass, which he hath committed, two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, unto the LORD; one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering. {he be...: Heb. his hand cannot reach to the sufficiency of a lamb}

I think this is interesting, I'll have to think about what it means in relation to the New Covenant?

I reread this thread about a week ago to catch up and haven't had time to get back, but I noticed what you were asking me the second time around. The first burnt offering is first shown by Noah after the flood (the washing of waters from the Holy Spirit living waters (flood of purification washing sin away) with the fire of testing leads to purification and finally perfection. For Jesus he didn't need purification but the fire of testing revealed that he was truly perfect. We are baptized by Jesus by the Spirit and fire. We believers do need the living waters of God's Spirit and the testing in the fiery furnace to be sanctified. Look at Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter.17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.18 But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.19 Then was Nebuchadnezzar full of fury, and the form of his visage was changed against Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego: therefore he spake, and commanded that they should heat the furnace one seven times more than it was wont to be heated.20 And he commanded the most mighty men that were in his army to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, and to cast them into the burning fiery furnace.21 Then these men were bound in their coats, their hosen, and their hats, and their other garments, and were cast into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.22 Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flames of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.26 Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, came forth of the midst of the fire.27 And the princes, governors, and captains, and the king's counsellors, being gathered together, saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was an hair of their head singed, neither were their coats changed, nor the smell of fire had passed on them.

God was in the midst of the three who although tested were shown to have perfect faith a depiction of walking in the Holy Spirit in God's righteousness.

"John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire" (Luke 3:16).

"See, I have refined you, though not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction" (Isaiah 48:10).

This testing is the only way to show perfection is really perfection.

So sin offering showing the perfection of Jesus.

"In bringing many sons and daughters to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through what he suffered" (Hebrews 2:10).

Since Jesus was always perfect the suffering proved that he was perfect.

Now this {Heb. his hand cannot reach to the sufficiency of a lamb} again I will say does relate to the fire and I will say it relates to the two side posts. There is a lot more in the bible that relates to it but I will leave it at this for now.
 
I reread this thread about a week ago to catch up and haven't had time to get back, but I noticed what you were asking me the second time around. The first burnt offering is first shown by Noah after the flood (the washing of waters from the Holy Spirit living waters (flood of purification washing sin away) with the fire of testing leads to purification and finally perfection. For Jesus he didn't need purification but the fire of testing revealed that he was truly perfect. We are baptized by Jesus by the Spirit and fire. We believers do need the living waters of God's Spirit and the testing in the fiery furnace to be sanctified. Look at Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter.17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.18 But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.19 Then was Nebuchadnezzar full of fury, and the form of his visage was changed against Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego: therefore he spake, and commanded that they should heat the furnace one seven times more than it was wont to be heated.20 And he commanded the most mighty men that were in his army to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, and to cast them into the burning fiery furnace.21 Then these men were bound in their coats, their hosen, and their hats, and their other garments, and were cast into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.22 Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flames of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.26 Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, came forth of the midst of the fire.27 And the princes, governors, and captains, and the king's counsellors, being gathered together, saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was an hair of their head singed, neither were their coats changed, nor the smell of fire had passed on them.

God was in the midst of the three who although tested were shown to have perfect faith a depiction of walking in the Holy Spirit in God's righteousness.

"John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire" (Luke 3:16).

"See, I have refined you, though not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction" (Isaiah 48:10).

This testing is the only way to show perfection is really perfection.

So sin offering showing the perfection of Jesus.

"In bringing many sons and daughters to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through what he suffered" (Hebrews 2:10).

Since Jesus was always perfect the suffering proved that he was perfect.

Now this {Heb. his hand cannot reach to the sufficiency of a lamb} again I will say does relate to the fire and I will say it relates to the two side posts. There is a lot more in the bible that relates to it but I will leave it at this for now.
More good stuff Olivia..you have a real advanced understanding of the symbolism and types in the scriptures..and above all you understand how they relate to our beloved Christ... I did not see a question in your post and I gladly agree with your understanding of these things...:)
 
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