The Letter Kills But The Spirit Gives Life

[Mitspa]

"But if he be not able to bring two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, then he that sinned shall bring for his offering the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour for a sin offering; he shall put no oil upon it, neither shall he put any frankincense thereon: for it is a sin offering" (Leviticus 5:11). The sin offering for the poorest was grain rather than the lamb or two doves or two pigeons.

Here is an interesting note made on my reading;

Le 5:7 ¶ And if he be not able to bring a lamb, then he shall bring for his trespass, which he hath committed, two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, unto the LORD; one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering. {he be...: Heb. his hand cannot reach to the sufficiency of a lamb}

I think this is interesting, I'll have to think about what it means in relation to the New Covenant?

 

[Mitspa]

The curse doesn't exist for the believers. If Cain was in faith the curse of the ground wouldn't exist for him. Even if the first fruits represented Christ, he wasn't in faith, since the first fruits would not be representative of Christ if they weren't given from faith, "everything that does not come from faith is sin" (Romans 14:23). Someone can give a lamb, give first fruits, proclaim they are saved, but if they don't have faith they are just outer acts.

I would say that they are many believers that have not entered into the rest of God? For that rest requires that one ceases from their own works. Much of "Christian" religion teaches a "works" idea, even if they have separated those works from the traditions of the law, they are yet "works" to justify or to attain blessing in some way from God. Now I believe that this mindset is very much carried over from the "works" mindset of the law. To many "Christians" the New Testament is just an addition to the Old, in that they feel they have some grace in Christ but they are yet subject to the letter of the Old and the New.

2Co 3:6 ¶ Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Now Paul is not speaking of the "letter" of the Old, he is speaking of the "letter" of the New...in that the New is not like the Old, where one must live by keeping a written code. The New Testament is a "spiritual" book and its obedience is in the "Spirit" not in the "letter".
I know most believers have no idea of what this means, nor does anyone dare to teach this truth. I could help others understand, but it takes a comprehensive understanding of the scriptures. Line upon line and precept upon precept. To this point I wonder If I am wasting my time?

 

[God calls me Olivia]

Here is an interesting note made on my reading;

Le 5:7 ¶ And if he be not able to bring a lamb, then he shall bring for his trespass, which he hath committed, two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, unto the LORD; one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering. {he be...: Heb. his hand cannot reach to the sufficiency of a lamb}

I think this is interesting, I'll have to think about what it means in relation to the New Covenant?

This may be a little deeper than I want to discuss, but I will give you a clue. Look

I would say that they are many believers that have not entered into the rest of God? For that rest requires that one ceases from their own works. Much of "Christian" religion teaches a "works" idea, even if they have separated those works from the traditions of the law, they are yet "works" to justify or to attain blessing in some way from God. Now I believe that these mindset is very much carried over from the "works" mindset of the law. To many "Christians" the New Testament is just an addition to the Old, in that they feel they have some grace in Christ but they are yet subject to the letter of the Old and the New.

2Co 3:6 ¶ Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Now Paul is not speaking of the "letter" of the Old, he is speaking of the "letter" of the New...in that the New is not like the Old, where one must live by keeping a written code. The New Testament is a "spiritual" book and its obedience is in the "Spirit" not in the "letter".
I know most believers have no idea of what this means, nor does anyone dare to teach this truth. I could help others understand, but it takes a comprehensive understanding of the scriptures. Line upon line and precept upon precept. To this point I wonder If I am wasting my time?

I agree that I should have written that the curse does not exist for believers when they are in God's Spirit. That is what I meant. If the believer walks in the flesh they are submitting themselves to the curse even though they are no longer under the curse because they are righteous in Christ. The believer in God's Spirit is living in God's righteousness however and instead of living in the curse they are living in God's Spirit, in God's fruit. They are living in the kingdom of God where there is no curse.

 

[Mitspa]

This may be a little deeper than I want to discuss, but I will give you a clue. Look

I agree that I should have written that the curse does not exist for believers when they are in God's Spirit. That is what I meant. If the believer walks in the flesh they are submitting themselves to the curse even though they are no longer under the curse because they are righteous in Christ. The believer in God's Spirit is living in God's righteousness however and instead of living in the curse they are living in God's Spirit, in God's fruit. They are living in the kingdom of God where there is no curse.

"look" you mean like this

Nu 21:9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

 

[God calls me Olivia]

"look" you mean like this

Nu 21:9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

Sorry, I was writing that and went away and forgot and started to write a response to you other post. "And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it" (Exodus 12:7). The two side posts corresponds to there being two doves or pigeons.

 

[Mitspa]

Sorry, I was writing that and went away and forgot and started to write a response to you other post. "And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it" (Exodus 12:7). The two side posts corresponds to there being two doves or pigeons.

Not the two doves or pigeons..of course the blood can be seen in that but your earlier post was related to how the grain also represented Christ as a sin offering? My first thought was that He is the Word (seed) in the flesh..His body broken for us.. I know everything that atones in any way, must represent Christ. To this there is no doubt...even the Priest themselves represented Christ in His heavenly ministry for us.

 

[God calls me Olivia]

Not the two doves or pigeons..of course the blood can be seen in that but your earlier post was related to how the grain also represented Christ as a sin offering? My first thought was that He is the Word (seed) in the flesh..His body broken for us.. I know everything that atones in any way, must represent Christ. To this there is no doubt...even the Priest themselves represented Christ in His heavenly ministry for us.

Yes, it is really fascinating how it all ties together.

 

[Ravindran]

Keep Olivia and Mitspa.. I have never looked Leviticus in this way.. Frankly.. Lot of learning for me..

 

[Mitspa]

I want to take an example of a command in the "letter" and show how it can only be fulfilled in the "Spirit"...Maybe that will be more helpful? Lets look at "thou shalt not covet"... Now according to the "letter" God demands that we do not look upon the things others have and desire them for our own or in any way put them above God (idolatry) And just as Christ brought the Law to its highest standard, we should see that all sin is a matter of the heart before it is a matter of action. The rich young ruler "thought" that he had kept the Commandments from his youth. What did the Lord do? He told him to sell it all..give it to the poor and follow Him. Now this young man was breaking several of the commandments, but could not see it? He placed these things above following God...but did not see it...he was coveting these things but did not see it. That's why the Lord used the law..to show us we are all guilty according to our own ability to keep what is written. I will leave that out for discussion before I continue.

and covetousness, which is idolatry:

 

[Brother Paul]

If you believe God's sacrifice was a type and figure before the law, then you should believe the same for the sacrifices done under the law. The animal sacrifices didn't make them clean. It was faith in the messiah symbolized by the animals that made them clean.

Amen and the promise they looked forward to was given to Adam and Eve (Genesis 3:15)

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Olivia said: "It was faith in the messiah symbolized by the animals that made them clean."

Me: Made who clean: the animals or the people? "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins."
So if the sin remains, then those who offered, or sacrificed the animals were also not cleansed. Their sins were not remitted (washed away, erased): they were only covered, just as the sins of Adam and Eve were covered! The same applies today: God showed mercy at Calvary and forgave (held back His judgment) until Grace was poured out upon all flesh, as the Prophet Joel foretold. But who upon whom was the Holy Spirit poured out? On those on whom Jn. 14:6 _ was confirmed!

The Holy Spirit was shed upon certain men (prophets), in the OT; but today, the Holy Spirit (Grace) is available to everyone that believes and obeys the Gospel. If we look at the pattern established by the Holy Spirit through the apostles and prophets in the Book of Acts _ we would do well to submit to the same pattern as the apostles and prophets, and not listen to the modernists that would deny them. We are not "saved" by reading dictionaries: but by the leading of the Spirit of the Lord Jesus! Or have we forgotten: "For as many are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."

 

[Mitspa]

I want to take an example of a command in the "letter" and show how it can only be fulfilled in the "Spirit"...Maybe that will be more helpful? Lets look at "thou shalt not covet"... Now according to the "letter" God demands that we do not look upon the things others have and desire them for our own or in any way put them above God (idolatry) And just as Christ brought the Law to its highest standard, we should see that all sin is a matter of the heart before it is a matter of action. The rich young ruler "thought" that he had kept the Commandments from his youth. What did the Lord do? He told him to sell it all..give it to the poor and follow Him. Now this young man was breaking several of the commandments, but could not see it? He placed these things above following God...but did not see it...he was coveting these things but did not see it. That's why the Lord used the law..to show us we are all guilty according to our own ability to keep what is written. I will leave that out for discussion before I continue.

and covetousness, which is idolatry:

I want to continue on this point.. The "letter"..written code..of the law, demands righteousness from sinful man. Even if some cannot not understand or agree with the truth, the "letter" produces sinful lust in the flesh of all men. The purpose being, to manifest the "sin" in the flesh to all men, so that all will become guilty before God.

Ro 3:19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

I want to continue on this point.. The "letter"..written code..of the law, demands righteousness from sinful man. Even if some cannot not understand or agree with the truth, the "letter" produces sinful lust in the flesh of all men. The purpose being, to manifest the "sin" in the flesh to all men, so that all will become guilty before God.
Ro 3:19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

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Very good, Beloved.
Now does the law produce sin in man before or after he hears it?

There are two laws operating in the Commandments: the Law of Sin and Death, and the Law of Righteousness. Man was offered righteousness through the Commandments: if , therefore, man obeyed the Law of Commandments, he would live; if not, the Law of Sin and Death was imposed. The Law of Commandments offered righteousness in this: "The Law is not of faith: but, 'The man that does them shall live in them." So the Law offers life if a man do them! I know, I know: man could not do them, and he therefore incurred death. Nevertheless, righteousness was offered!

Sin took occasion by the Law by causing man to break the Law: once broken, sin revived. What sin? And how is it that sin "revived"? It is the sin of Adam; and it revived through the Commandments. How is that? Adam received a commandment: not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil! God dealt with that sin when he "clothed" Adam and Eve with skins of animals. They were not made righteous, because sin was not done away with: nor has it been put away today. Their sin was simply covered". So the commandment not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was not given to any other man: only to Adam. So all men born after Adam were born "outside" Law the Law of Sin and death; but were all subject to it through Adam. WHAT? "Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression...". They had not sinned in the same manner as Adam, having not received a direct commandment!

Walk in the Light, Beloved.

 

[Mitspa]

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Very good, Beloved.
Now does the law produce sin in man before or after he hears it?

There are two laws operating in the Commandments: the Law of Sin and Death, and the Law of Righteousness. Man was offered righteousness through the Commandments: if , therefore, man obeyed the Law of Commandments, he would live; if not, the Law of Sin and Death was imposed. The Law of Commandments offered righteousness in this: "The Law is not of faith: but, 'The man that does them shall live in them." So the Law offers life if a man do them! I know, I know: man could not do them, and he therefore incurred death. Nevertheless, righteousness was offered!

Sin took occasion by the Law by causing man to break the Law: once broken, sin revived. What sin? And how is it that sin "revived"? It is the sin of Adam; and it revived through the Commandments. How is that? Adam received a commandment: not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil! God dealt with that sin when he "clothed" Adam and Eve with skins of animals. They were not made righteous, because sin was not done away with: nor has it been put away today. Their sin was simply covered". So the commandment not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was not given to any other man: only to Adam. So all men born after Adam were born "outside" Law the Law of Sin and death; but were all subject to it through Adam. WHAT? "Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression...". They had not sinned in the same manner as Adam, having not received a direct commandment!

Walk in the Light, Beloved.

The law does not "produce" sin in man...it awakens sin (that is already present) and manifest the sin that is in all men. Its like having a broken arm..now if one is asleep that pain is not a conscience reality to the soul...But what the law does is comes and twist that broken arm and makes that pain "sin" have effect and power of the soul making sin, exceedingly sinful.

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

O.K. Sin produced the transgression of the Law: was it before or after he heard it?

There are two laws operating in the Commandments: the Law of Sin and Death, and the Law of Righteousness. Man was offered righteousness through the Commandments: if , therefore, man obeyed the Law of Commandments, he would live; if not, the Law of Sin and Death was imposed. The Law of Commandments offered righteousness in this: "The Law is not of faith: but, 'The man that does them shall live in them." So the Law offers life if a man do them! I know, I know: man could not do them, and he therefore incurred death. Nevertheless, righteousness was offered!

Sin took occasion by the Law by causing man to break the Law: once broken, sin revived. What sin? And how is it that sin "revived"? It is the sin of Adam; and it revived through the Commandments. How is that? Adam received a commandment: not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil! God dealt with that sin when he "clothed" Adam and Eve with skins of animals. They were not made righteous because sin was not done away with: nor has it been put away today. Their sin was simply covered". So the commandment not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was not given to any other man: only to Adam. So all men born after Adam were born "outside" of the Law of Sin and death; but were all subject to it through Adam. WHAT? "Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression...". Those men had not sinned in the same manner as Adam, having not received a direct commandment from God! Now God gave the Commandments to Moses for all men (not just for Adam or Moses). So now were all men subject to the Law of Sin and Death if they did not do the Commandments.

 

[Mitspa]

O.K. Sin produced the transgression of the Law: was it before or after he heard it?

There are two laws operating in the Commandments: the Law of Sin and Death, and the Law of Righteousness. Man was offered righteousness through the Commandments: if , therefore, man obeyed the Law of Commandments, he would live; if not, the Law of Sin and Death was imposed. The Law of Commandments offered righteousness in this: "The Law is not of faith: but, 'The man that does them shall live in them." So the Law offers life if a man do them! I know, I know: man could not do them, and he therefore incurred death. Nevertheless, righteousness was offered!

Sin took occasion by the Law by causing man to break the Law: once broken, sin revived. What sin? And how is it that sin "revived"? It is the sin of Adam; and it revived through the Commandments. How is that? Adam received a commandment: not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil! God dealt with that sin when he "clothed" Adam and Eve with skins of animals. They were not made righteous because sin was not done away with: nor has it been put away today. Their sin was simply covered". So the commandment not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was not given to any other man: only to Adam. So all men born after Adam were born "outside" of the Law of Sin and death; but were all subject to it through Adam. WHAT? "Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression...". Those men had not sinned in the same manner as Adam, having not received a direct commandment from God! Now God gave the Commandments to Moses for all men (not just for Adam or Moses). So now were all men subject to the Law of Sin and Death if they did not do the Commandments.

Little confused about your point, Mario? Or how it relates to the point I have made? Could you maybe be a little more clear on your point as it relates to what I have posted?

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Little confused about your point, Mario? Or how it relates to the point I have made? Could you maybe be a little more clear on your point as it relates to what I have posted?

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My point is that you were not really clear on the points I have posted. A little one-sided, I thought!

 

[Mitspa]

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My point is that you were not really clear on the points I have posted. A little one-sided, I thought!

Well I am working towards helping others understand the whole "letter" and "spirit" contrast.. I have never heard anyone explain it in a clear biblical way, which was my hope. Until one understands that Gods word is Spirit and truth and are set free from a legalistic mindset they will never understand the liberty that is in Gods Word, or walk in the Spirit as God has intended.

 

[Mitspa]

The very reason the "church" is in such a "sinful" condition, is because so many are teaching the law...which is the strength of sin.

1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

 

[Mitspa]

The very reason the "church" is in such a "sinful" condition, is because so many are teaching the law...which is the strength of sin.

1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Its funny that most think preaching against sin and legalism will somehow reduce sin? Its just not biblical nor does it promote true godliness. The Pharisees was the most legalistic group ever, and they where none so far from God as this group was. None hate true righteousness more than those who promote self-righteousness. None are so contrary to the Cross as those who look to offer another sacrifice. They are like Cain, they have a form of godliness but deny Him in their works.

1Jo 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.