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The Letter Kills But The Spirit Gives Life

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Mitspa, Apr 5, 2014.

  1. I want to start this discussion in an odd place? With Cain and Able.. God had cursed the ground and mans labors in the ground was cursed. The sweat from the brow was a picture of the anxiety and stress that come upon man to make his own provision in this world. Now Cain labored in the cursed ground and was indeed trying to offer to God from what God had cursed. Able offered God a Lamb and blood, which are a picture of Our Beloved Christ and the righteousness of faith in Him. "The Lamb slain before the foundation of the world" Now this is why Able was called "righteous" and Cain was called "wicked". Both had a desire to worship God and be accepted before God, but God will only accept that which represents His Son.

    If one can see this truth..they will be able to understand what "righteousness" really is and what it was from the beginning before God.

    Heb 11:4 ¶ By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. {yet...: or, is yet spoken of}
    1Jo 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
    Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

    Has the "Church" not gone the way of Cain? Have they not attempted to labor in what God has cursed? (the law of Moses) Do they not attempt to offer the works of their own flesh, in all its religious mask? Do they not hate those who rejoice in the righteousness of faith and trust only in the Grace of God? To those who have eyes to see...it is "evident"
     
  2. It is evident...that's why we all need Christ...His grace manifest in flesh (a man albeit God Himself, taking back the God intended dominion of man upon the earth)...just a side note...did you know when God says "his blood cries out to me from the ground" it is actually "his bloods" (plural - all the persons that Abel would have become throughout time were also counted as slaughtered by Cain)...
     
  3. Wow brother I was just thinking on this issue..cool in the Holy Spirit...man:)

    Blood is a spiritual force that the folks of darkness understand better that the children of light in many ways.
     
  4. Cain brought God the same type of sacrifice by which his parents tried to sacrifice themselves: the work of their hands.
    Able bought God the type of sacrifice that God, Himself, offered for Adam and Eve's sin: an offering of blood.
    Why was Able's sacrifice "...by faith..."? Because Adam and Eve testified that they were cast out of the garden, etc. Cain thought it was a good story; Able believed the testimony: thus his sacrifice was "...by faith."

    Mitspa, believing the scriptures is not equivalent to knowing and believing the Gospel! Repentance is an invitation to believe the Gospel.
     
    Where is the Messiah likes this.
  5. What have you said but just trying to repeat what I said in another way...of course while leaving out the ground is "cursed" and the law is "cursed"? Able offered the Lamb and that by faith...Cain offered works of the cursed ground and that is not faith.

    Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."
    11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith."
    12 Yet the law is not of faith,
     
  6. Good-morning gentlemen,
    I just read the first post, which I found to be thought provoking. I would like to thank Mitspa for taking the time to share these wonderful scriptures, and his thoughts on them. It has encouraged me to read Gen Chapter 4. I just had a few quick questions..

    When you said this, "Both had a desire to worship God and be accepted before God, but God will only accept that which represents His Son."

    But when I read this
    4 And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

    6 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door;it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

    The part where it says abel gave "fat portions from some of the first born of his flock" So, I think the issue is that Cain did not have the right kind of giving heart, and not necessarily that he wasn't giving a lamb as you say. Because it says Abel gave his firstborn, whereas it does not state that for Cain. And what does scripture say about offering the first, when sacrificing?

    "Honor the Lord with your wealth and with the firstfruits of all your produce; then your barns will be filled with plenty, and your vats will be bursting with wine"

    "We obligate ourselves to bring the firstfruits of our ground and the firstfruits of all fruit of every tree, year by year, to the house of theLord;"

    And the first of all the firstfruits of all kinds, and every offering of all kinds from all your offerings, shall belong to the priests. You shall also give to the priests the first of your dough, that a blessing may rest on your house.

    “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, When you come into the land that I give you and reap its harvest, you shall bring the sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the priest, and he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, so that you may be accepted. On the day after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it. And on the day when you wave the sheaf, you shall offer a male lamb a year old without blemish as a burnt offering to the Lord. And the grain offering with it shall be two tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil, a food offering to the Lord with a pleasing aroma, and the drink offering with it shall be of wine, a fourth of a hin. And you shall eat neither bread nor grain parched or fresh until this same day, until you have brought the offering of your God: it is a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

    As soon as the command was spread abroad, the people of Israel gave in abundance the firstfruits of grain, wine, oil, honey, and of all the produce of the field. And they brought in abundantly the tithe of everything.

    The best of the firstfruits of your ground you shall bring to the house of the Lord your God. You shall not boil a young goat in its mother's milk.”

    So I think the problem with Cain was that which was in his heart. I believe even if he had offered lamb, he would of still not received blessing, because his heart led him to not give the firstlings. If the ground was the main issue, then I don't believe God would say all throughout scripture to give first fruits of their harvests.

    I could be missing something here, and would be curious to hear your thoughts on it though brother. It's all interesting stuff to me.
     
    Huntingteckel likes this.
  7. Interesting...so your view is that Able gave a tithe? and cain did not?
    Ge 4:3 ¶ And in the process of time it came to pass that Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground to the LORD.
    Ge 4:4 Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the LORD respected Abel and his offering,
    5 but He did not respect Cain and his offering. And Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell

    So Abel gave of Gods blessing and Cain gave from the curse? I don't see the tithe but that the principle that we give from the blessing of God and not from our own striving of the flesh and what God has cursed. You do accept that God had cursed the ground from which Cain was laboring?
     
    Where is the Messiah likes this.
  8. In fact I believe that those who teach the tithe (according to the law) are teaching a "cursed" doctrine... But those who teach giving based upon God blessing are teaching the truth of the gospel. I even agree with the tithe of Abraham ...as an act of faith...but the law is not of faith.
     
    Where is the Messiah likes this.
  9. No that is not my view. I believe they both gave a tithe, but I think one offered the first fruits, and one did not.
     
  10. So you don't see the relation in trying to offer to God what He had cursed? Or that the Lamb represents faith in Christ?
     
  11. In that Christ is the first born, I would see your point..But not sure I agree that this is a issue of "first fruit" in the sense of Cain holding back the first of his crops? Although it could be a part of the truth that we should see? We know that God had cursed the "ground" and Cain offered from the "ground" that God had cursed.
     
  12. No I do believe the Lamp represents Christ, and that the ground is cursed. But I don't believe that Cains offering was not blessed because it came from the ground, I think it was because it was not his firstling.

    Here is a scripture that shows a blessing can come from the cursed ground:

    And the first of all the firstfruits of all kinds, and every offering of all kinds from all your offerings, shall belong to the priests. You shall also give to the priests the first of your dough, that a blessing may rest on your house.
     
  13. Heb 11:4 ¶ By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

    maybe this scripture can help us?
     
  14. Yes I agree the ground is cursed. But there is so many scriptures that show people offering the firstling of what came from the ground that is cursed, but still being blessed.
     
  15. Yes I think so.

    Heb 11:4 ¶ By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

    maybe this scripture can help us?

    I think that throughout scripture the more excellent sacrifice is usually considered to be the first fruits. In my humble opinion.
     
  16. So God had cursed the ground and mans labors in the ground..and you don't see the relationship... in that the ground was mentioned as the source of cains offering? Now the law is not in effect at this time..and through the law the firstfriuts could be accepted in that one keeps all the law.
     
  17. Does the first fruit "speak" or does the Blood of Christ speak? and clearly the issue IS FAITH and the law is NOT of faith.
     
  18. The curse is that man has to labor to get food from the ground. Cain gave an offering from the ground, but did not get blessed. Now if we look through scripture, are there other people that gave offerings from the ground. Yes. Did they get blessed? Yes. So if Cain gave from ground, and did not get blessed, yet other people have gave from the ground and did get blessed, that would show us that the ground was not the issue. But when we look at that passage what did Abel do, that it does not say Cain did? Give his first fruit. Now since there is so many scriptures that talk about a relationship between first fruit, and blessings, I would think we have to assume this was the reason Cain did not receive blessing.
     
  19. They did not get "blessed" unless they kept all the law.. and the tithe was only part of being blessed according to the law. I think your missing that? And you are adding this idea that Cain did not give his first fruit..it does not say that...it says he gave from the ground..which we know God had cursed.
     
  20. Clearly the issue was a sacrifice of faith as Heb shows...and the law is not of faith... the tithe according to the law is not of faith. It is cursed just as Cain was cursed.
     

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