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The Law

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by th1bill, Jun 21, 2012.

  1. Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
    Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
    Mar 12:31And the secondislike,namelythis, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

    When Jesus answered the question about what was the greatest or the first commandment He answered by summarizing the Ten Commandments with just two. The first commandment Jesus gave us is the summation of the first four and the second is the sum of the remaining six.

    The most foolish argument I have encountered in the years of my ministry is that the Christian, not being under the Law, should ignore it. First, there is what is recorded of what Jesus said of the Law in Matthew 5:17-19, during the Sermon on the Mount. He told us that the least speck of the Law and the word of the prophets will not pass until everything in them is completed.

    Couple this very popular heresy of ignoring the Law of God with the heresy taught about forgiveness and you have the formula for admission to Hell. Still in the Sermon in chapter 7:21-27, we find the truth of what I have said here. In John 14:15 we find Jesus giving us our orders to obey His commands and in John 1:1-3 we see that Jesus is not only the God of the Old Testament but that there is nothing created that has not been created by Him. This man, Jesus, is the Omnipotent God of all creation.

    Now, about those Ten Commandments, there are at least two, very, important things to consider here. First, these commandments are the most accurate and beautiful word picture of our Most Holy God. When we study the passages of Exodus 20 we learn just how holy God is. And as Christians, it is our duty to daily conform our, very, lives to the image of Jesus. (Romans 12:1-2) And second, the Christians need to keep these laws in the fore of their minds because these are our code of conduct, the conduct God wants to see from His Children.
  2. Hi Mr. th1bill, hope you do not see it that I am annoying/stalking you : )
    I enjoy the word of God being preached : )

    Although since you did not expound what you meant by forgiveness heresy: I like to add that:

    Forgiveness is a strength…not a weakness.

    A wise man once said, he being a Christian or not is irrelevant, but what he said rings true.

    “The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.”
    -- Mahatma Gandhi

  3. Annoyed? Certainly not and that statement deserves a response from someone and I used it for a conversation generator. As I often teach that the Law is very important to lost man and saved alike. Now, not to be rude but Gandhi was a very kind man but he is in Hell, awaiting the Great White throne Judgement. That is why you'll never see me quote him even though I think a great deal of his valuable life.

    The heresy of forgiveness being is rooted in the teaching of Unconditional Forgiveness without proper elaboration. You see, any sin short of dying while denying Christ (Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit) is forgivable IF we will bow our knee, proclaim Christ for our Savior and then submit to His will. The doctrine of Unconditional Forgiveness has been, falsely, extended to include everybody that asever been born (Universalism).
  4. Once we are filled with the Holy Spirit the law is inscribed on our hearts - we begin to hate sin and turn from it.

    Christians who carry on sinning (breaking God's laws) without the conviction of the Holy Spirit never truely sacrificed their lives for Christ in the first place.

    The difference between non chrisitans and Christians is that Chrisitans are being changed into the image of Christ, unbelievers are going nowhere except down.
  5. The Ten Commandmen in both Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5 are addressed to Israel. The preamble reminds the Nation that the Lord God "brought them out of Egypt." He didn't do that for the church. However, having said that, only nine of the Ten are repeated in the NT, the fourth (Sabbath keeping) is the anomaly.
  6. Thanks, I understand now what you meant by “heresy of forgiveness”, i.e. Universalism.

    We discussed that topic in a bible study with a fellow church member and we referred to this site below, to guide on definition of terms.

    Below is link to the site if anyone is interested to read further, just for definition of terms and not what # to choose : )



    What About Those Who Haven't Heard?

    There are also important subsets of these views (often distinguished according to means) as well as other views of the fate of the unevangelized. In my study of this issue, I found at least nine.

    1. Church Exclusivism
    2. Gospel Exclusivism
    3. Special Revelation Exclusivism
    4. Agnosticism (as to the fate of the unevangelized)
    5. General Revelation Inclusivism
    6. World Religions Inclusivism
    7. Postmortem Evangelism
    8. Universalism
    9. Pluralism
  7. G'day Jack, I was just reading this thread and your comment caught my attention.

    The captivity of Israel in Egypt is in many ways similar to everybody's captivity to sin. It is even considered by some to be a model of mankind's plight.
    Moses led (as a messiah figure) the Israelites out of bondage to slavery in Egypt. see Duet 18:18,19.
    Jesus leads His people out of bondage to sin in a similar fashion, only of course Jesus is ever so much more than Moses. see also, Isa 61:1,2,3.

    It seems to me that the Lord has brought His people out of spiritual Egypt, out of bondage to sin. But enough of this. Can you explain what you mean by saying "the fourth (Sabbath keeping) is the anomaly"; the Sabbath was something of a bone of contention between Jesus and the pharisees, so I'm wondering....
  8. Here, here... AMEN!
  9. the1bill: But enough of this. Can you explain what you mean by saying "the fourth (Sabbath keeping) is the anomaly"; the Sabbath was something of a bone of contention between Jesus and the pharisees, so I'm wondering....

    Jack: I can explain it; and, of course, feel free to disagree. Of the Ten Commandments given to Israel, only nine are repeated in the New Testament, the fourth, keeping of the Sabbath, is the odd one. The Sabbath was not only given to Israel, but it was the sign of a covenant God made with the Nation. Of course the Pharisees, being the conservatives of Judaism, kept the Sabbath (Saturday) and had formed many rules and regulations regarding this Commandment and some of these regulations were ridiculous. It seems to me that the Christian Church met on Sunday, the first day of the week as it was the day when Christ rose from the dead. Some people think the Sabbath was moved from Saturday to Sunday, but I don't think so. It was Saturday, is now Saturday, and will always be Saturday. The NT Christian Church worshiped on Sunday, the Lord's Day.
  10. I would say there is no anomaly: If we apply the principle of Substance over the legal form.
    That principle is applied by taxation/accountants to identify companies avoiding to pay taxes, by hiding in the legal form.
    Substance prevails over the legal form.

    My opinion:
    Did Jesus break the Sabbath? No.
    Rationale: Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath

    Did David or the disciples break the Sabbath? No as well.
    Rationale: The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath

    Mark 2:23-28
    New International Version (NIV)

    Jesus Is Lord of the Sabbath
    23 One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain.
    24 The Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”
    25 He answered, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need?
    26 In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.”
    27 Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
    28 So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”
  11. And of course I do disagree. (Hebrews 10:25) The day of the week has changed to the first vs. the seventh because we celebrate His resurrection is on the first day but we still take the day of rest commanded in the Commandments. Remember always, Jesus told the Samaritan woman that we worship in spirit and truth, not according to the Law but in honor of our Savior and all that He has done. Of course that will include the Law and alwas remembering that we cannot possibly obey all of the LOaw all of the time because of our sinful nature but because of our spiritual nature we strive to do so.

    Hoping this does not come over as to sharp.
    Major likes this.
  12. Didn't the Pharsees use the Sabbath simply as a trap to ensnare Jesus as one who broke the law?
  13. JACK: Not sharp at all. I don't necessarily have to agree with you. The Sabbath Day (Saturday) was given to Israel, do you know of any passage that extended it to the Church? The Sabbath was a sign of a covenant that God made with Israel (Ezk. 20:12). If we are under "The New Covenant," would that not require a new sign? I would submit that that new sign is the Lord's Table. Can you explain the reason you believe the Sabbath has been changed to Sunday?
  14. I do not believe the Sabbath has changed. The answer is that we as Christians simply do not keep the Sabbath.
  15. Exo 20:8,9,10,11. Well All the nowadays calendars have Sunday as the first day of the week and Saturday (the Sabbath day) is therefore the last day of the week. Most orthodox Church groups meet on Sunday, and the majority of people work Monday to Friday which is only five days. With the Weekend containing both the Sabbath day and the First day, probably the majority of Orthodox Christians would also keep the Sabbath holy to the Lord, (which does not require going to a Church service) as well as the First day of the week and indeed all the days of the week for a Christian are holy to the Lord.
    I'm unaware of any Old Testament Scripture that said "Thou Shalt Worship only in the Local Synagogue on the Sabbath day." I guess if one was to work on the other six days it would be natural enough to worship at the local Synagogue on the Sabbath, but not everyone would have been living close enough to go there. But they all could keep the Sabbath holy to the Lord by obeying the commandment.(which makes no mention of a Synagogue)
    So why do we measure holiness by Church attendance?
    th1bill likes this.
  16. Yes, I think we agree on that point.
  17. Jack, before I got to it Calvin gave the answer.
  18. Yes, I agree. I don't know that we do measure holines by church attendance. I suppose Hb. 10:25 makes it one component but certainly not a standard for such a determination. Paul wrote about the right use of the law which is, in my view, the whole crux of the argument. Some people misused the law making a means of salvation which was never its intent.
  19. The Law was never a means of salvation, it is, however, the Code of Conduct for every believer, even a Jewish believer knows this today.
  20. Calvin, you asked..........."So why do we measure holiness by Church attendance?"

    IMHO it is one of the ways in which we can be assured that one is at least trying to be obedient to God.
    It does not make them holy but it is a visible testimony of trying to be.
    th1bill likes this.

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