The Last Beast Kingdom

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by herald, Aug 28, 2008.

  1. The Last Beast Kingdom

    "And I beheld another Beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

    And he exerciseth all the power of the first Beast before him, and causeth the earth and them that dwell therein to worship the first Beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

    And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth, in the sight of men. (When James and John wanted to call fire down from heaven as Elijah had done, Jesus said to them, "Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of!" Lu 9:54,55)

    And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles, which he had power to do in the sight of the Beast, saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the Beast, which had the wound by the sword and did live." Rev 13:11-14.

    1. "...out of the earth" - a sparsely populated place, in contrast to the first Beast, which arose out of a populated place. Rev 17:15.

    2. "...two horns" - no crowns: religious and civil liberty.

    3. "...two horns like a Lamb" - a young Christian nation.

    4. "...he spake as a Dragon" - "The greatest Superpower the world has ever known."

    George Washington said, "Every man conducting himself as a good citizen and being accountable to God, alone, for his religious options, ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity, according to the dictates of his own conscience."

    Benjamin Franklin said, "When religion is good, it will take care of itself. When it's not able to take care of itself, and God does not see fit to take care of it, so that it has to appeal to the civil power for support, it's evidence in my mind that the cause is a bad one."

    Ulysses S. Grant said, "Leave the matter of religious teaching to the family altar, the church and the private school, supported entirely by private contributions. Keep the church and state forever separated."

    Jesus said, "My Kingdom is not of this world: if My Kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight..." John 18:36.

  2. Sorry, I guess I am not getting it. What is your point Herald?
  3. My sister is a conservative Republican officeholder...she is getting concerned about the Christians on the far right.

    Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell have called for re-instituting the Sunday, or, "Blue laws." They are, still, on the books in 26 states. In Virginia, the third infraction meant death!

    More and more Christians want to use politics to force this nation back to God. Jesus invites us into His Kingdom, He never forces anyone.

    Our warfare is to be spiritual, alone.

    The Pre and Post Reformers studied Daniel and Revelation, and pointed to the office of the Papacy as "The Antichrist" ("false Christ") and "the Son of Perdition."

    Martin Luther: "nothing else than the kingdom of Babylon and of very Antichrist...For who is the man of sin and the son of perdition, but he who by his teaching and his ordinances increases the sin and perdition of souls in the church; while he yet sits in the church as if he were God? All these conditions have now for many ages been fulfilled by the papal tyranny." Martin Luther, First Principles, pp. 196-197.

    John Calvin: "I deny him to be the vicar of Christ. who, in furiously persecuting the gospel, demonstrates by his conduct that he is Antichrist--I deny him to be the successor of Peter...I deny him to be the head of the church." "Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom we speak and whose language we adopt...I shall briefly show that (Paul's words in 2 Thess 2) are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies to the Papacy." John Calvin, Tracts, Vol. 1,pp 219,220.

    John Wesley: "He is in an emphatical sense, the Man of Sin, as he increases all manner of sin above measure. And he is, too, properly styled the Son of Perdition, as he has caused the death of numberless multitudes, both os his opposers and his followers...He it is...that exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped...claiming the highest power, and highest honor...claiming the perogatives that belong to God, alone." Albert Close, Antichrist and His Ten Kingdoms, p. 110.

    John Wyclif: "Why is it necessary in unbelief to look for another Antichrist? Hence in the seventh chapter of Daniel, Antichrist is forcefully described by a horn arising in the time of the 4th kingdom. For it grew from (among) our powerful ones, more horrible, more cruel, and more greedy, because by reckoning the pagans and our Christians by name, a lesser (greater?) struggle for the temporals is not recorded in any preceding time...and the horn had arisen from the ten horns, having eyes and a mouth speaking great things against the Lofty One, and wearing out the saints of the Most High, and thinking that he is able to change times and laws. (The Sabbath) (Dan 7:8,25 quoted) ..."For so our clergy foresee the lord pope, as it is said of the eighth blaspheming little head." Wyclif's De Veritate Sacrae Scripturae, vol. 3 pp. 262,263.

    Similar statements are made by William Tyndale, King James, John Knox, Philipp Melanchton, and Huldreich Zwingli.

    Many of the Reformers were not burned - but roasted at the stake for such comments.

    I have statements from their ecclesiastical dictionary (Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Vol. V1, pgs 438, 442 article "Pope.")and other sources, where they claim, that, the Pope is God on earth, and the Pope is Jesus Christ behind the veil of flesh.

    Down through her history, the Catholic Church has used states and kings to accomplish her ends. She will use the most powerful nation in the world - Protestant America. Just as President Reagan and the Pope brought down communism in eastern Europe...a foreshadowing of things to come.

    Just as Judas arose from within the disciples, so The Antichrist will arise from within the apostate church.

    The Apostle Paul wrote, "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas (Peter); and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?" 1 Cor 1:12,13.

    The denominational system was never God's plan for His church. In Revelation 17, He calls this system, "The Mother of harlots."

    "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins ("the transgression of the law" 1 John 3:4) and that ye receive not of HER PLAGUES. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities." (lawlessness) Rev 18:4,5.

    How do we "Come Out?" By doing as the Bereans: "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the Word with all readiness of mind, searching the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so." Acts 17:11.

    In 2 Tim 3:16 in the Greek, it reads, "Every Scripture is God breathed..." There is no life in men's opinions or traditions...there is, only, life in His Word.

    Have you heard of St. Malachy's prophecy, posted on the web by the Catholic Church? He was an Irish Catholic Bishop who visited Rome in 1139 and had a vision of all the popes until the time of the end. He gave details about many of them. He said the last pope would "reign amidst many tribulations," and then, "The Dreadful Judge will come and destroy the city." (Jesus is coming back as a Judge)

    If this was a vision from God, there will be one more pope.

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  5. There are born again Christians in both the Catholic and the Protestant churches. That is why God is calling us out of the system. I was asked to clarify my point, and I did.

    When was the gospel ever "politically correct?" The prophets, Jesus, His disciples and millions of Christians have been martyred for preaching the gospel.

    This does not impune individual Christians, but the system.

    When what is taught in my church doesn't line up with Scripture, I speak up. Some are offended, but, others encourage me. Is our allegiance to the system, or, to the Word of God, alone?
  6. As a moderator:

    Friend it is not about being politically correct but it is about obeying the rules of the forum that you agreed on in order to post here. This forum specifically requires that participants only refer to politics in direct correlation to bible prophecy and strictly prohibits bashing of any denominations.

    As a member :
    I firmly believe that God calls us to speak the truth in love and to obey the laws of the land.

    Thanks ahead of time for understanding and cooperating.
    Brother Larry.
  7. With all due respect to you, the Apostle Paul bashed the denominational system, and he was God's messenger to the Gentiles.

    I will not take it any further, as per your request. But how will God's people - both Catholics and Protestants know what is soon to come upon the earth?

    Actually, I have posted about The Antichrist and Protestant America on Catholic websites. My posts are "Daniel, Revelation & World History Reveal The Antichrist," and "Revelation 13:11 - Protestant America." They see, that, it is even handed, and do not think that I am bashing their denomination.
  8. Thank you for your consideration brother. There are different venues for different types of discourse and I am quite sure there are plenty of forums who do not have restricting those particular subjects.
  9. Hmmmm..................... politicaly correct is a bunch of malarky. It sterilises the work place and our country with our beliefes. It leans towards the minority of the populus. I know you have seen the results. The system leans towards the complainers which is bout 14%
    That is as far as Im goin.
    Im stikin with Jesus and the bible.......absolute truth!!!!!! It is writtin, documented,I believe it, that settles it!
    Just had to put in my 2 cents.
    I get riled up when it comes to politics and politically correct it just ......rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
    k im done
    God Bless us all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Chili out.:)
  10. Most folks do my brother:eek:- that is why politics are not discussed here.:p:)
  11. :eek:i think you need to look at propaganda.usa is responsible for the majority of tv shows,etc films.these things influence the world.they are worshipping the first beast which is sin.they love to show affairs,murders,greed,etc etc etc.:eek:
  12. Rev. 31:1 speaks of the antichrist. 13:11 speaks of the religious leader that helps the antichrist.

    The antichrist is the political leader whose description includes the 10 nation one world governing power- Dan. 2:41-44.

    Rev. 13:11, shows this 2nd beast is a religious leader- "has 2 horns as a lamb, but spakes as a Dragon." He helps to convince the rest of the world to follow the 1st beast- (antichrist) 13:12. (The antichrist will be killed, then Satan will incarnate him and revive him to make the world wonder after the antichrist- 13:3,12,14.) 3- "wounded to death", 12- "deadly wound was healed", 14- "had the wound by a sword, and did live."

    The "one world Governing union" will be the "revived Roman Empire". Not necessarily the antichrist being of Roman descent.

    Also, the religious Leader is not depicted clearly as being a religion or a person. So lets keep the conjecture out of this topic and stick to facts God shows us.

    No one knows for sure who either beast- (leader), will be. They are alive and well at this time, but not publicly known as yet.

    We do know this for a fact tho-

    The two feet of Nebecanezzer's statue were of iron and clay. Like the legs of iron, this is the revived Roman Empire." Because the "toes" are mentioned, this revived Empire will have a foundation of 10 nations- Dan 2:44, 7:7, Rev.13:1. 17:12, plus others.

    This governing system refers to the European Union. Why? In 1958, 3 European Nations came together and called themselves- "Benolux". They wrote up, then signed a new "Treaty of Rome". Since then, the group of nations have grown to over 10. But, Daniel describes how 3 will be plucked out by the roots. Yet Scriptures after this, show there are still 10 nations. So, the group has to grow to more than 10, see 3 drop out, in order to come to 10.

    But, do not think that has to happen right now. Nations are joining and leaving this Union as we speak. The timing of this particular Prophecy, happens when the antichrist is just coming to power or about to. But, he is publicly known. Look at Daniel's vision about that.

    So, whats going on now, cannot be worthily used to claim Daniel's or Revelations Prophecies as yet. For the power and stablized operations of that Governing Power, has to be set long enough, for the antichrist to appear and take over leadership of those nations, to accomplish all God prophecies he will.

    God Bless!!
  13. ChCommando, you certainly seem to have a handle on Rev.! So, in reading Chap. 13, there are actually 3 bad guys here: One, the beast; two, the dragon who gives him his power; and three, the 2nd beast, who is the religious leader and comes up with The Mark. The 1st beast came up out of the sea, the 2nd beast came up out of the earth. So, do your think the dragon is actually satan? Also, do you know a good book that explains all this stuff? If not, would you write one? :eek: Thanx! Sweets

  14. 1. It will arise among the ten divisions of the Roman Empire. Dan 7:8.
    2. It would destroy three of the ten kingdoms. Dan 7:8.
    3. It would speak great words against the Most High. Dan 7:25; Rev 13:6.
    4. It would wear out the saints. Dan 7:25;Rev 13:7.
    5. It would be guilty of blasphemy. Rev 13:6;Dan 7:25.
    6. It would attempt to change divine law. Dan 7:25 (The only time in His Covenant was the Sabbath)
    7. It would exercise power over all kindreds, tongues and nations. Rev 13:7.
    8. The Dragon would give his power, seat and authority to the Beast. Rev 13:2.
    9. It would continue in world domination for 1260 years. Rev 13:5; Dan 7:25.
    10.It would receive a mortal wound. Rev 13:3.
    11.It would amaze the whole world, for it's deadly wound would be healed. Rev 13:3.
  15. Herald, you said this: 9. It would continue in world domination for 1260 years. Rev 13:5; Dan 7:25.

    Sooooo . . . are you saying that during the Tribulation the beast will continue in world domination for 1260 years?! I thought the Trib. lasted about 7 yrs. Actually, in Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be on thousand two hundred and ninety days. Not years. ??

    And Rev. 13:5 says: And he was given a mouth speaking great thiungs and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. There again, months, not years.

    It does say in Daniel 7:25 that the saints shall be given into his hand "for a time and times and helf a time." But does not give times what. Kinda confusing, huh?
  16. Actually, that has happened, already. I said, that, I would not add to what I said, so I will honor that. There is a lot more I could say, but I won't. If you want to read my posts, "Daniel, Revelation & World History Reveal The Antichrist," and "Revelation 13:11 - Protestant America," you can find them on many sites. I would recommend You will find most of my posts there.

    There are many different beliefs about the end times and differing ideas of how the prophetic passages are best understood.

    We have no problem with anyone expressing their personal understanding supported by scripture provided that they recognise that other members may have a different point of view.

    We remind members of the following rules

  18. Yes, many people have different versions of who The Antichrist will be...that is why it's important to do a thorough study of the Scriptures, so that we will know who it will be.
  19. hearld-

    God is by no means calling us out of the religious system. He is calling for unity tho within the Body of Christ. The Apostles lead by God's Spirit exorted this even back then.

    But, Paul never bashed religion. He "bashed"- (in your words), Cult teachings or doctrines that were infiltrating the Churches. In some cases, it was false doctrines that had not been present with the people in thier Church and in others, it was, as with the "Nicolatean" doctrine re-infiltrating- (coming back in) thier Church.

    There were groups of new Converts where they never had a Church, but gained a building for one later. On the other hand, there were other groups who did have pre-existing Churches where they were converted to Christianity and rejected and removed thier old false religion.

    Secondly- The words "uprooted" and "fell" used in those Daniel references refer to nations "dropping out" of the union. But, it was at more than 10 by the time this occurred. Why?

    Nebecanezzars' dream showed the last "revived Roman Empire" having "10 toes." Now, humans are normally born with 10 toes that never disappear, fall off, etc without due cause. But, here is the clincher-

    At the time in the King's vision, when that stone drops from Heaven to smash the feet of the Statue, nothing has been said of the feet losing any toes. Therefore, the number of nations had to have grown to over 10 in order for 3 to drop out and return the foundation to 10 again, in order to be 10 at the time Christ returns.

    Also, you'll find, during the Tribulation Period, the beast is depicted as having 10 horns and 10 crowns. Kinda hard to be 10, if 3 of them are removed shortly after his appearance. But notice, there is no reference in Rev. to that.

    Later as well, in Rev. 17, you'll find also, this is all going on during the Tribulation, as the "one world Gov." and the anti-christ convince most of the world occupants to join in thier blasphemy and greater sinning against God- 17:2.

    And this beast with the whore again has seven heads and 10 horns once again- 17:3, 12-14. It will not be an imediate turn of the world to fall into sins with this false Leader and Gov. supporting him. It will take time.

    And as for the duration of the Trib. Period, it only lasts for 7 years. One Scripture declares the antichrist makes a contract with other nations of peace for one week- hebrew is "Heptad"- which means 7 years.

    Another Scripture declares that at the point of "42 months"- (3 1/2 years), this peace pact is broken and the peace deteriorates to war in the end- (meeting at Armegedon). Rev. 13:5, 7-8.

    There are no Scriptures that literally show 1260 years of reigning of the antichrist. The literal Greek interpretation shows it means "42 months" as is stated. (or 3 1/2 years.)

    The power given to this antichrist goes this long, before someone kills him. But, Satan incarnates the antichrist, bringing him back to life and thats when everything starts it major deterioration to war.

    Sorry my friend, your intermixing spiritualizing where literal interpretations are used.

    I ask you do more indepth studying on this sibject. I'm not the only one who teaches such beliefs. The Early Church Leaders, such as Annanius, Theophilus, Linus, Clement, Ironius, Turtulian, Barnabus, plus others. (Many of these were the first or second Leaders over the first Apostlic Churches started).

    As for Christian Leaders of today, you can count Dr. Jack Van Impe, Tim LaHaye, Hal Lindsay, Grant Jeoffery plus several other major Leaders to add to that, who've found the same info I had.


    Yes, there are 3 bad guys as Satan is the "great imitator" of God. Thus, because God is a Trinity- Father, Son and Holy Spirit, so too Satan has himself- "Father"- (Dragon), Antichrist- "Son", and the religious Leader- "as his spirit".

    Yes, Satan is the "Dragon" in Rev. 13, because God declares in His Word about the Devil being a "serpent", a Dragon, wolf in sheeps clothing, appears as an Angel of Light. Rev. 12:3.

    In this instance, the woman is Isreal. Out of the lineage of David, that can be traced back to Seth, (Adam and Eve's child that replaced Able), Jesus would be born and come to this world as the Messiah- vs- 1-2.

    The Dragon- (Satan), came to earth to influence Herod to have him killed shortly after birth because He was claimed in Prophecies as "King of the Jews". But, Herod had been given this title, as historical accounts tell it, after he killed over 40 of the Sanhedrin Leaders who were originally only religious Leaders over the Jews until given the political governing power over them as well by the Jewish people.

    Once over half of the Sanhedrin were killed, Herod reduced them once again to religious Leaders only, setting up seperate governing offices in which he elected the first Jews to handle each position.

    So, when the Jewish talk of the signs that appeared of the coming Messiah, Herod researched this further, to find out where this "King" was prophecied to be born. Also, the "Kings of the East" he found out were headed for this "King" born- (v 4).

    It failed, because God told Joseph and Mary to head over into Egypt until Herod's death.

    Enough history for now hehe.

    God Bless!!
  20. With all due respect, I get my teaching from the Scriptures, with the help of the Holy Spirit. Our unity must be in His Word, alone - not in the traditions of the church system.

    "For he is not a Jew; which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Rom 2:28,29.

    "Know ye therefore, that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham...And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Ga. 3:7,29.

    Those who are of faith, are spiritual Israel.

    God calls the Catholic/Protestant religious system, "The Mother of harlots." Rev 17.

    God is calling His sheep out of the system: "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins ("the transgression of the law" 1 John 3:4) and that ye receive not of HER PLAGUES. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities." (lawlessness) Rev 18:4,5.

    Jesus said, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me." John 10:27.

    We follow Him, by our allegiance to His Word, alone - and not to any denominational church.

    "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you...And I will put My Spirit within you and CAUSE YOU to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments and do them." Ezek 36:26,27.

    When His Spirit is within us, He empowers us to keep His Word - His law. That is what "walking in His Spirit" is all about. The Holy Spirit will never lead us into sin, or, "the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.

    In Psalm 119, the word, "Word," is used, interchangeably, with "law," "commandments," "precepts," "statutes," "testimonies," "judgments."

    His Word = His law.

    We have abused grace: "I am crucified with Christ:nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Ga 2:20.

    "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin ("the transgression of the law" 1 John 3:4) that grace may abound? God forbid, How shall we, that are dead to sin live any longer therein? Rom 6:1.

    "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Rom 3:31.

    Jesus said, "Not every one that saith, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father, which is in heaven.

    MANY will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

    And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity. (lawlessness) Mt 7:21-23.

    "And hereby we do know that we know Him, IF we keep His commandments. He that saith, I KNOW HIM, and keepeth not HIs commandments is a LIAR and the Truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth His Word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby we do know that we are in Him.

    He that saith he abideth in Him, ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked." 1 John 2:3-6.

    The children of Israel, Jesus, His disciples and the New Testament Christians kept the Sabbath holy, and so must we.

    "As far as the east is from the west, so far hath He removed our transgressions ("of the law" 1 John 3:4) from such as keep His Covenant and to those that remember His commandments to do them." Ps 103.

    Covenants have conditions.

    Jesus said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments." John 14:15.

    "He that hath My commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father, and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him." John 14:21.

    "By this we know that we love the children of God (Greatest Commandment #2), when we love God (#1) and keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:3.

    "And this is love that we walk after His commandments." 2 John 6.

    His church keeps His commandments: "And the Dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Rev 12:17.

    His saints keep His commandments: "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Rev 14:12.

    At the very end of the Book of all Books, the Apostle John wrote, "Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.

    Do you keep the Sabbath holy?

    Just as in the Garden, it is a question of allegiance. Do you follow the Catholic/Protestant religious system?

    Or, do you honor the commandment of our Creator?

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