The Holy Bible.

Discussion in 'Biblical Advices' started by JesusLovesAll, Sep 4, 2010.

  1. The Holy Bible.

    Is what? this book with 66 books? why so?
    The bible was sealed with 80 books, so what the???
  2. hmm where'd the concept of "80" and "sealed" come from?
  3. They really didn't start removing the apocrypha until around that time; only 400 od years ago.
    So its no real different than me, taking some out of it today..

    I know why they was removed! because they didn't think they was scripture - there reasons!!! as in they didnt like what they said.

    I cant ignore no longer these contradictions; I cant ignore these lies that wave in front of my face every single day.
    I just want the truth.

    So where is my faith these days? In God and his Holy Spirit.
    But where the truth at? I just cant find it.
  4. But i thought there were 90 something . i wonder which books were included .
  5. 90?
    Well I dont know.
    The 14 that were removed are called the Apocrypha which was 14 books.
    You may be right though, there may be more.
  6. I am getting long in the tooth, and with old age comes the tendency to repeat oneself, so please forgive me if I’ve posted most of this before.
    But in respect of this particular challenge I have always questioned what I see as ‘Bibliolatry’, preferring what I call the ‘Way of the Spirit’ as being how Christianity was originally intended to be led.
    After all is said and done there was no Bible as such until Constantine decreed that one should be produced 300 years after the Spirit was given at Pentecost.

    There were indeed ‘Apostolic Writings’ during the period that that the church (the Body of Christ) was being established, and they referred to the authenticity of the Old Testament (2Tim 3:16 for example).
    And it was good that some of those writings were preserved, despite the fact that the ‘church’ was rapidly falling into apostasy and tampered with them to suit their preferences.
    However God still ‘speaks’ to those who have ears to hear but just How does he do so?

    I have to say that what I call ‘The Way of the Spirit’ is to be open to the voice of God which I believe ‘speaks’ into what is described as “the fleshy tables of the heart”.
    And I believe that for God ‘thus to speak’ it has to be outside of the five human senses of touch, sight, sound, smell, or taste.
    Therefore, for God thus to speak, the Bible as such (which can only be seen by the human eye, or heard by the human ear if read) cannot be the voice of God; it can only be one of the vehicles that God uses in order to generate his voice in the heart.
    And that has to be via an extra human sensory perception.

    Whether or not Shakers, Amish, or early Quakers got to that understanding I am not sure, but it seems to me that they may well have been close (particularly the Quakers)

    My burden however is to ease men off the misconception that I believe to have become endemic, whereby the vehicle is mistaken for the goods being conveyed, or the menu is mistaken for the meal.

    Whilst the Bible may be most frequently used in conveying/generating the voice of God in the heart, it is not the only vehicle IMO.
    Under this understanding it matters little which version of the Bible is being used, whether its canonisation omitted books that deserved inclusion, or whether the ‘church’ tinkered with the manuscripts.
    The goods within the vehicle remain available even if one of the vehicle’s wheels falls off……it’s just getting at them that becomes more difficult.

    That ‘wheel off’ factor is, IMO, why Christ in Matthew 13 is quoted at great length to portray the survival of the Kingdom of Heaven against so many difficulties (not least that of apostasy) leaving it as a precious hidden treasure to be sought with diligence, and valued above all else when found.

    [FONT=&quot]Seek and ye shall find…..but it will necessitate some enormous resolve against the opposition of most of Christendom.[/FONT]
  7. I like what you have said, I agree!
  8. those must've been in the distinctions the RCC gave them then . thanks good to know . that it wasn't the reformation people who took those books out of the bible . but .. hmm i dunno a lot of crazy stuff was going on in the late 1800s so not sure if i can trust that decision .
  9. flesh made the choice, it cant be trusted. lol.
  10. [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Acts – 5:38, 39[/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]1. Through the centuries, there have been always true believers in the whole world who have kept and preserved the Gospel in its originality, because they feared God, and because they appreciated very much the Gospel. When a person finds something precious he tries to keep it because it is precious to him."[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]2. The commandments - ‘do not still, do not kill, do not lie, and, other commandments of God, are written (coded) on the heart (consciousness) of every human being, even those living in the jungle, who have never seen civilization or the Bible. Moral laws can be created and come from a moral Being - God. Man did not create the ten commandments, because, if he did, he could change them as it suits him and, would not feel guilty for doing sin! The moral laws are independent from men.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]3. The creation of man, the earth and the universe, display the wisdom, love, goodness, order, purpose, design, and the beauty of God, which he has placed in them![/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The Bible is like a manual with instructions from God for us, to know where we came from, what to do on earth, and where we will go, in the future. It is like a person having a car, and manual with instructions. To have a car is not enough in order to know, how to drive or repair and maintain it. You can try and drive or repair your car without a manual, and may be succeed to some degree. But the manual gives you all the detailed instructions for everything you need to know about driving or repairing your car. It is similar with God, his creation and the Bible. We can know God and some of his attributes by just observing the creation, and the thing that he made. But the Bible gives us much more information about God, more than the creation gives us.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]4. The miracles from God like speaking in tongues, healing and others, are another prove and confirmation from God, for the existence of God and that the Bible is true - (Hebrews 2:3,4, Acts 2:22, 14:3, 16:26-30, Mark 16:17, 20, John 2:11,23, 3:2, 4:48, 6:2, 10:25, 38, 11:45, 14:11, 20:30,31, Luke 10:13)! Some of the miracles, in the Old Testament, and which Jesus did, in the New Testament, were not to help or heal people, but only to show and prove, that God is real, and that His Word is real, and also, to show His glory, like the miracle of Jesus walking on the water, for example. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]5. The Bible is a historical book, describing historical people and places, and proves itself, to be true![/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]6. There are many Christian (Church history) and secular, non Christian materials and books, written in the life time of Jesus and the Apostles, which speak about Jesus and the Apostles and the first Christians during the 1, 2, 3 and later centuries. Some of them are written by Roman historians, who saw Jesus or the Apostles, and wrote about them, even though, they themselves, were not Christians. For example the book - „Quo Vadis Domine.“ Also, the archives of the Roman emperors in the time of Jesus, describe the person of Jesus Christ.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]7. The prophecies about Jesus and Israel in the O. Testament, and other prophecies in the Bible are fulfilled! In 1948 Israel was miraculously formed as a nation again! - Deuteronomy 28:64, Ezekiel 36:24, Isaiah 7:14, 9:6-7, 53:4-[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]8. There are much more documents (manuscripts) about the New Testament in the world, than they are for any other ancient literature! - Josh McDowell[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]9. The calendar, is another proof about the historical person of Jesus, because it starts, from the birth of Jesus.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]10 . The conversion (born again experience) of even the toughest criminals, is the greatest miracle itself ( Nicky Cruz). Also, the immediate deliverance from God, of people who use drugs and are drug addicts, is another miracle. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]11 . There is not a proof yet, that the Bible is not true. There have been many people through the history, which have tried to prove that the Bible is not true, but they could not, and some of them even have become Christians, while investigating the Bible.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]12 . Archeology, also proves the accounts in the Bible.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]13 . There are many famous scientists, and philosophers, that believe in God![/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]14 . The existence of the Jewish nation and its history, is a proof of the Bible.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]15 . The Apostles according to history, were killed, because of their believe, that Jesus is God, and he rose from the dead. No body will die for a lie.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]16 . Only twelve ordinary men, turned the whole Roman empire and the world upside down, and changed it, by the Gospel.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]17 . The presence (the anointing) of God, and his power and love, is not just knowledge in the head, but it can be experienced and feltvery realistically -(John 7:38, 39, Romans 8:16). [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]18. The Bible is made of many books which have been written in 1600 years period! It is written from about 50 authors, which were living on different continents and in different countries, and spoke different languages, and had different professions. But the whole Bible has one common point, and that is the Lord Jesus Christ.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Jeremiah 1:12, Isaiah 55:10[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]20. All living beings – plants, animals and humans, have something which is common to them all, like a blood system, respiratory system, nerve system, digestive system, which shows, that they came from the same source – God. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]21. The fact that people from different races, can marry and have children, proves that people from all different races, came from the same source, or the same parents, Adam and Eve, otherwise, if they did not, they would not be able, to produce children.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]22. Years ago, people did not believe that the earth was round, but that does not mean, that the earth is not round. Therefore, if some people, do not believe in God, or his miracles, it does not mean, that he does not exist or that there are no miracles. Today, there are many people who do not believe in speaking in tongues, or healing from God, even among Christians, but there are about 600 000 people globally, who speak in tongues, and there are thousands of people who are healed from God.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]23. You can experience love, but you can not explain it. It is similar with God. You can get an experience from him, but you can not explain it. There are many things in this life, which can be experienced, but can not be explained. It does not mean, that they are not real. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]24. When Jesus said that he is the Life (the life of God), he was really mad, or he really was, who he claimed to be, and there is no other option.[/FONT]

    25. We can not see wind, but we can see its results, effects, and we can experience it. It is similar with God.

  11. Thanks, I like what you have posted.
    I might seek some other documents of that time, now I know they exist and study them.
  12. Yes, the Bible is the 66 books. Thirty nine in the Old and twenty seven in the New. The Apocrypha, though added in the King James early on was a separate group not considered 'inspired' by God. The Apocrypha was only added by the Catholic Church later due to its problem with the Luthor and the Reformation. It did not recieve the Canonical status as the 66 books did at the outset.

    The only written Word inspired by God in the world, are the 66 books of the Bible.

    To credit inspiration of God to any other writings is a mistake.

  13. The historical evidence is pretty clear, the same 66 books have been considered the only inspired texts since the time of Jesus.

    The oldest Old Testament canons of Scripture agree with Jewish and Protestant Bibles of today. Their is however, an appearance of a discrepancy in the number of books, due to the way the books were counted - but there is no real discrepancy, the oldest canons all agree, and it is the same canon we use today.

    1. The oldest canon of the Jewish OT is 2 Esdras (Vg:4 Esdras): It claims 24 OT books (Vulgate & Peshitta).

    Flavius Josephus: [37- 100 ] claims 22 books, but names only the categories: 5 Law, 13 History, 4 Hymns.

    Melito of Sardis (d 170 ad) also claims 22 books.

    2. The Catholic Encyclopedia says: " St. Jerome, speaking of the canon of Melito, quotes Tertullian's statement that he was esteemed a prophet by many of the faithful." and "St. Melito, Bishop of Sardis (c. 170), first drew up a list of the canonical books of the Old Testament ......." (a prophet should infallibly know which books are canon)

    *It should be noted, the Catholic Bible has only seven more books than Protestant Bibles. So, the OP must be claiming even more books than the RC

    3. The Catholic Encyclopedia says: The "Protocanonical (are) those sacred writings which have been always received by Christendom without dispute. The protocanonical books of the Old Testament correspond with those of the Bible of the Hebrews, and the Old Testament as received by Protestants."
    "[The deuterocanonical (deuteros, "second") are those whose Scriptural character was contested in some quarters,"
    "These consist of seven books: Tobias, Judith, Baruch, Ecclesiasticus, Wisdom, First and Second Machabees; also certain additions to Esther and Daniel."

    4. When Jerome added them, he placed them apart from inspired Scriptures stating those 7 books were not of inspired authority as were the rest.

    5. Luther also included these extra books in his German translation, appending then as Jerome did with a similar statement they ARE NOT inspired.

    In addition to the historical record showing which Books were inspired, information on this topic can also be found within the pages of these4 books - both inspired of God and man-made bboks

    The authors claimed they were inspired:
    1Cr 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

    The authors acknowledged the other writers were also inspired:
    Paul's authority is supported by more than his own testimony. Peter also claims Paul's writings are inspired.

    2 Peter 3:16 as also in all (Paul's) letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction..

    The books' historical and geological accuracy lends supporting witness.
    Being written in the time and language it claims to be written also lends credence.

    The Old Testament witnesses to the truth of the NT which fulfills the OT prophecy.

    And finally, the testimonies of each book is consistent with the others.

    Furthermore, apocryphal writings contain errors and sometimes even acknowledge they are not inspired.

  14. Did I forget to say

    Some apocryphal books admit that prophetic succession had already ended, therefore they cannot be considered inspired, by the witness of their author.
    (I Macc. 9:27) Thus there was great distress in Israel, such as had not been since the time that prophets ceased to appear among them.
    (1 Macc. 14:41) And the Jews and their priests decided that Simon should be their leader and high priest for ever, until a trustworthy prophet should arise,

    I can't remember which book/verse, but the author of Macc denies writing under inspiration saying, if his writing is less than perfect it is the best he could do.....or words to that affect.
  15. Hello my friend. I hope that you are well and I also hope that I can help you in your question.


    At the Council of Trent (1546) the Roman Catholic religion pronounced the following apocryphal books sacred. They asserted that the apocryphal books together with unwritten tridition, are of God and are to be received and venerated as the Word of God. So now you have the Bible, the Apocrypha and Catholic Tradition as co-equal sources of truth for the Catholic. In reality, the Bible is the last source of truth for Catholics. Catholic doctrine comes primarily from tradition stuck together with a few Bible names. In my reading of Catholic materials, I find notes like this: "You have to keep the Bible in perspective." Catholics do not believe that the Bible is God's complete revelation for man.

    Not one of the apocryphal books is written in the Hebrew language, which was alone used by the inspired historians and poets of the Old Testament. All Apocryphal books are in Greek, except one which is extant only in Latin.

    None of the apocryphal writers laid claim to inspiration.

    The apocryphal books were never acknowledged as sacred scriptures by the Jews, custodians of the Hebrew scriptures (the apocrypha was written prior to the New Testament). In fact, the Jewish people rejected and destroyed the apocrypha after the overthrow of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

    The apocryphal books were not permitted among the sacred books during the first four centuries of the real
    Christian church (I'm certainly not talking about the Catholic religion which is not Christian).

    The Apocrypha contains fabulous statements which not only contradict the "canonical" scriptures but themselves. For example, in the two Books of Maccabees, Antiochus Epiphanies is made to die three different deaths in three different places.

    The Apocrypha includes doctrines in variance with the Bible, such as prayers for the dead and sinless perfection.

    Now here are some examples which totally contradict the Bible comong from the Apocrapha..........

    Basis for the doctrine of purgatory from the Apocrapha:

    2 Maccabees 12:43-45, 2.000 pieces of silver were sent to Jerusalem for a sin-offering...Whereupon he made reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin.

    Salvation by works:

    Ecclesiasticus 3:30, Water will quench a flaming fire, and alms maketh atonement for sin.

    Tobit 12:8-9, 17, It is better to give alms than to lay up gold; for alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin.


    Tobit 6:5-8, If the Devil, or an evil spirit troubles anyone, they can be driven away by making a smoke of the heart, liver, and gall of a fish...and the Devil will smell it, and flee away, and never come again anymore

    Mary was born sinless (immaculate conception):

    Wisdom 8:19-20, And I was a witty child and had received a good soul. And whereas I was more good, I came to a body undefiled.

    It teaches immoral practices, such as lying, suicide, assassination and magical incantation.

    1. No apocryphal book is referred to in the New Testament whereas the Old Testament is referred to hundreds of times.
    2. Because of these and other reasons, the apocryphal books are only valuable as ancient documents illustrative of the manners, language, opinions and history of the East.

    I hope this gives you a better understanding of WHY those books were rejected.
  16. Wow! It is always good to see these issues in print. I can save them to my personal files. I'm soooooooo glad these books are rejected ! !

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