The Godhead of the Lord Jesus

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by PetriFB, Oct 4, 2014.

  1. But why is gnosticism not valid, yet Arianism is? The same people that decided on the Canon of scripture also decided on Christian orthodoxy.

    He signed the Nicene Creed and professed Trinitarian theology by the time of the baptism. If he had not used the Trinitarian formula, then it would not have been considered a valid baptism, and Constantine would not be considered a saint in the EOC.
     
  2. Matthew 26:40-41New King James Version (NKJV)
    40 Then He came to the disciples and found them sleeping, and said to Peter, “What! Could you not watch with Me one hour? 41 Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
     
  3. Matthew 26:40-41New King James Version (NKJV)
    40 Then He came to the disciples and found them sleeping, and said to Peter, “What! Could you not watch with Me one hour? 41 Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
     
  4. He was baptized after the Council by an Arian. Take it or leave it's history....

    My point is this... He was a trinitarian right? but baptized from an Arian... So once again why am I going to trust Constantine and the council he made that supported trinitarianism if he did that?
     
  5. Why would I want to do that???

    I did not agree with your comment then and going back to read it again will not make your comment Biblical.

    It is your opinion but that does not make it acceptable. If you want to believe that......go right ahead my friend.

    You have no problem with me at all.

    However I should tell you that the Bible doesn't teach any such doctrine like the one you propose and in fact it teaches the very opposite. One of the primary passages dealing with the believer's (that is, those who are saved) attitude and position on sin is 1 John. This epistle was written to first century Christians and addresses the concepts of sin, believers and nonbelievers.

    1 John Verses 6 and 7 says........
    "If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not know the truth: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

    That passage shows that those who are believers will not be in habitual sin - with the idea of walking in the darkness having a connotation of intentional, repetitive disobedience. The key is HABITUAL SIN!

    However, John follows these verses with "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." Here, the apostle says that Christians who claim to be sin free altogether are deceiving themselves and he calls into question their very salvation for making such a claim!
     
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  6. Amen!!!!
     
  7. (John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”


    (1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”


    (1 John 3:9) “No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”


    Read the following very carefully, because it seems that you failed to understand what John said.


    (1 John 1: 8-10) “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liarand his word has no place in our lives.”


    You need to see John was saying if one says he or she says they have never sinned they are liars.


    If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless? Could they then be liars if they say they are sinless?


    John later says:


    (1 John 3:3-9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to seen Him or known Him. My children do not let anyone lead you astray’ to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy’ to lead a sinful life is to belong the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”


    (1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”


    John told us those who did not know God sinned and asked forgiveness and were forgiven, but once a person comes to know God he or she will not sin.


    Scripture goes on to say that if a person who does know God uses their free will to sin there is no repentance for that person.


    (Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”


    (Hebrews 6: 4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”
     
  8. No, I got it!

    John 14:23........
    Here the abiding of the First and Second Person in the Trinity with believers; the abiding of the Third Person with them is also promised, John 14:16; which all make that presence of God with them, so often promised to them in holy writ. Thus our Saviour answereth one part of what Judas said, How is it that thou wilt manifest thyself to us? Because, saith our Saviour, you love me, and keep my words: for though no love, no works of ours, foreseen or seen, be the cause of eternal love, or the first grace; yet it is so much a cause of further grace, especially in the sensible manifestations of it, that no soul must expect it that doth not love Christ, and keep his words.

    So once again we see that Biblically, there is no basis to believe that a person never sins after being saved.

    1 John 3:5-6English Standard Version (ESV)
    5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.

    The verse does not mean that once a person is saved he never sins again. It does however mean that once a person is saved HE NOW LONGER LIVES IN SIN. His life is not longer characterized by sin. Now, it simply has to be this way because the verse that you did not post is in 1 John 2:29...... "No one who is alive in Christ LIVES IN SIN".

    So once again we see that Biblically, there is no basis to believe that a person never sins after being saved.


    Then you quote 1 John 3:9... (ESV)......
    9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God."

    Exactly what I said concerning 1 John 3:5-6 which you posted.

    So once again we see that Biblically, there is no basis to believe that a person never sins after being saved.


    Then we have 1 John 1:8-10 (ESV)
    8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us".

    I have no idea why you used this as it completely destroys the idea of human sinlessness.

    So once again we see that Biblically, there is no basis to believe that a person never sins after being saved.


    1 John 3:8 (ESV)
    8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

    LIVING in sin is the opposite of Christianity for Christ came to take away sin (vs 5 confirms that fact). Sin is a characteristic of the deveil and Christ came to destroy the woks of Satan.

    So once again we see that Biblically, there is no basis to believe that a person never sins after being saved.

    You said.............
    "John told us those who did not know God sinned and asked forgiveness and were forgiven, but once a person comes to know God he or she will not sin."

    Now after explaining what the Bible actually does say we see that your comment is incorrect. Not by what I say because I am no authority at all, but what actually the Scriptures do say. The bottom line in 1 John is that he is writing about "false teachers" of his day that were teaching error.

    I see no real need to speak to he passages you quoted from Hebrews as they were directed at the Hebrews who had left or were leaving Christ to go back to the Jewish rituals and ceremonies.

    I say again to you my brother....there are NO Scriptures that speak of man being sinless after he is saved. Every Scripture you will try to use to support your thinking is nothing more than your inability to understand the real meaning of that Scriptures. I say that with all due respect and love for you as my prayer is that you will grow in grace and knowledge.
     
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  9. When people use translations of bible to contradict the translations that have been approved by the Christian Church, I no longer discuss God with them.

    Christian Church I mean the only Church that has been given any authority from God, and that is the Catholic/Greek Orthodox Church.
     
  10. I understand and if I was being shown by the Bible the error of my thinking I would want to stop the discussion as well.

    I would be glad to use your own Catholic Bible and show the same thing in it as I have the ESV if you would like for me too.
     
  11. Do so if you can.
     
  12. What is the translation you would like for me to use. I will be glad to accomadate you.
     
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  13. I asked him that question earlier, but I don't think he gave me an answer either.
     
  14. New Jerusalem Bible, Jerusalem Bible, New American Bible, or at times I will even use the NIV Bible
     
  15. Thank you for your answer, Johnlove. The only Bible I am familiar with in your list is the NIV, which I never use anymore, because I am so familiar with it and have discovered its unfaithful renderings.

    Do you ever use the KJV?
     
  16. Yes I use the KJV, but do not like it.

    Personally the Bible was not something I used to bring me to know of God.

    For the first year of my ministry Jesus/Holy Spirit taught me about God.

    Then one day Jesus told me to get more into the Word. I had always thought of Jesus as the Word of God. So I answered Jesus with: But I am into you. My thinking was that every hour I was awake Jesus was on my mind, and teaching me. So I did not understand how I could be any more into him.

    After my saying to Jesus, but I am into you, he said also the written Word.

    The only bible I had at the time was the Jerusalem Bible. Jesus used that bible to teach me after that. I still like it better than all the rest.

    I did not understand at the time why Jesus wanted me into the written Word.

    Now I understand, it was because he was going to have me share on the forums, and Scripture was going to be needed to do that.

    I am sharing on the forum now, not because Jesus is having me give a word, but because it gives me a chance to share about God.

    I think nothing else, and very few people will listen to talk about God.
     
  17. Strong's numbers, although I think he meant to say G2304 vice G2350:

    G2305 θειότης theiotes (thei-ot'-ace) n.
    1. divinity (abstractly)

    G2304 θεῖος theios (thei`-os) adj.
    1. godlike (neuter as noun, divinity)

    G2350 θορυβέω thorubeo (thor-oo-beh'-o) v.
    1. to be in tumult, i.e. disturb, clamor
     
  18. Pick one and I will comply. I can read the Word and grasp it and I will be more than happy to respond to you. Pick something and lets go!!!!!
     
  19. The "Jerusalem Bible" is a Catholic translation. It makes no difference to me my brother.

    Romans 10:17 (Jerusalem Bible).
    "But it is in that way faith comes, from hearing, and that means hearing the word of Christ."

    Romans 10:17New International Version (NIV)
    17 "Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ."

    Romans 10:17 English Standard Version (ESV)
    17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

    That is, by preaching; for the word hearing is used in the same sense as in the preceding verse; and designs the report of the Gospel, or the preaching of the word, which is the means God makes use of, to convey faith into the hearts of his people; for preachers are ministers, or instruments, by whom others believe.
     
  20. Very few people I know want to talk about God either. But I still plant a seed here and there without them realizing it! :D
    The Christian walk can be lonely if we don't have fellowship. We know we are not alone because God promised to never leave us,
    but He also provides Christian fellowship for us to share burdens and joys with. If there is someone I'm having difficulties with,
    I try to remind myself that I may very well be spending eternity with that person so I better learn to get along! :love:

    I live in a very isolated area and it is hard to get to fellowship, which is why I turned to this forum awhile back. It has been very
    encouraging and uplifting, even when I disagree with some of the things people believe.

    Your testimony about how you came to Christ reminds me of my own process. And it was a process...not just a single-moment assurance realization that I am saved. Learning to walk with Him is my greatest joy and He teaches me so much through His Word. I do experience dry-spells (kinda like when trees go to sleep during winter); but I think that is normal for most Christians...at least that is what I've heard from other Christians, so I don't worry about it. He always brings me through to the spring again!
     

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