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The Godhead of the Lord Jesus

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by PetriFB, Oct 4, 2014.

  1. Nowadays more and more in the churches are people who says that Jesus is not God, but the Father alone is God. It is true that the Father is God, but actually the Bible teaches that Jesus is also God. In this writing I bring out that how the Bible tells that the Father is God, and Jesus is God and how this can be true so as there is not any conflict in the Bible. This is a very important subject, because it touches very deeply the foundation of salvation. Test and discern my teaching with Word of God by prayer.



    http://www.kotipetripaavola.com/GodheadoftheLordJesus.html
     
  2. And the Holy Spirit is God.

    It seems to me the problem lies in the inability of men to accept the doctrine of the Trinity.
     
  3. I have studied this subject backward, forward and inside-out and honestly I could present you with strong compelling augments form either side. …………….But that is not what I am here to do.
    My statement …actually more of a question is: how does it affect the foundation of salvation?? Just curious.
     
  4. I will respond to your question with a question. If Jesus is not God, how could his death atone for our sins?
     
  5. New Man 78
    If your question follows the pathway that Petri FB had in mind when he stated “it touches very deeply the foundation of salvation”,Then…. I misunderstood him and apologize. My focus was more on the receivability of salvation due to one’s belief.

    Your question appears to be in the direction of the accomplishment of salvation. But what I don’t know is.... if you are questioning a non-Trinitarian salvation... due to what they may or may not believe, on how it (salvation) was accomplished. (did that statement make sense?)
    Let’s start from here: Salvation no matter how it was accomplished ….by man or by God is available to both Trinitarian and non. Why? Because it is not contingent upon what a person believes → on how it was accomplished …No place in the bible is that ever stated.

    How is salvation achieved:
    Romans 10:9 & 10
    9)That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    Acts 2:38& 39
    38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
    Ephesians 2:8 & 9
    8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    In response to your question with a question: As I stated previously I am not here to argue or debate, but I have studied enough and spoken with enough Non- Trinitarians and their response to you would be…. how do you explain these scripture.

    I am just going to throw out a few, but if words mean things (Especially in the Bible) ….you can see their point ….right
    Romans 5: 12-19→ see below for scriptures
    Romans 5:14 the word “figure”is the Greek word typos referencing Jesus Christ as the image or the same type of person as Adam.
    I Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead → both of the words “man” used in this verse are the Greek word anthrōpos = a human being, whether male or female
    Rom 5:12-19
    12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
    13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
    14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
    15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
    16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
    17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
    18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
    19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
     
  6. The saving faith according to the Bible is such in which a man believes that Jesus is the Lord and God.

    Isa 43:
    10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
    11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

    The Bible tells that there is no other Saviour as the Lord. This means that no one can be the Saviour and no one can't atone sins as the Lord, God.

    Lu 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

    2 Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

    The Bible records that Jesus is the Lord and Saviour, who is the only Lord and Saviour. Luke tells that Jesus is the Saviour, the Messiah and the Lord (God).

    Acts 4:
    10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
    11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
    12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

    Acts 4:10-12 confirms and proves that Jesus is the Lord (God) and Saviour of the book of Isaiah.

    Romans 10:
    9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

    John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

    Letter to the Romans chapter 10 verses 9,10 tells us the alphabet and the foundation of the saving faith. The Bible says that we must confess with our mouth that Jesus is the Lord (God) and believe in our hearts that God has raised Jesus from the dead and so we are saved from the grace of God. The saving faith of the Bible is indisputable, because of our faith must be accordingly with the teaching of the Bible and the Bible tells that we must believe Jesus as the Lord (God), the Son of God and the Messiah that we can be in saving faith. Of course we must repent our sins and believe in the Lord Jesus.

    According to that what we have seen how the Bible teaches, so if anyone denies the Godhead of the Lord Jesus, he can't be in saving faith. Don't say that I'm condemning people because I'm not, but the Word of God defines what we should believe that we could be saved from the grace of God. We confess our sins, repent and believe in the Lord (God) Jesus, so God saves us and forgives our sins.

    Hebr 9:
    14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
    15 ¶ And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

    The Bible tells that Jesus offered Himself by the eternal Spirit on the cross of Golgotha, which means that He is God because only God can have the eternal Spirit, in other words Jesus has been existed forever. Jesus atoned sins by His blood and death and if you don't believe that Jesus is God (eternal Spirit), so your sins have not been atoned and forgiven. Forgiveness of sins can be obtained only in that way that Jesus has died as the Lord (God) on behalf of your sins.

    John 8:24 I said to you, that ye will die in your sins; for if ye believe not that I am he, ye will die in your sins.

    In the Bible Jesus says that you will die in your sins if you don't believe Jesus in the way who He is, and He is the Lord (God).

    Lu 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

    The Bible tells that Jesus is the Saviour, the Messiah and the Lord (God). This means that you must believe in Him as the Saviour, the Messiah and the Lord (God) that you can be saved from the grace of God.

    If you don't believe the Godhead of the Lord Jesus and you think that you are saved, so repent and believe Jesus as the Lord (God), so you will be saved. In the Acts of Apostles is very clearly said the foundation and salvation of the Biblical faith because believing in the Lord Jesus contains the message that the Lord is God who is the only one who can save a man:

    Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

    The cornerstone and foundation of the Biblical faith is the Lord Jesus, who is God. Without this cornerstone and foundation the faith is useless because Jesus is not created, but the Creator with His Father. God was needed to atone the sins of men that it could be an eternal sacrifice as it is by redemption of the Lord Jesus. The clear teaching of the Bible is that Jesus is God who has atoned sins and forgiven sins for those who believe that Jesus is the Lord (God).
     
  7. There is no theology exam on which a person needs a passing score before God will accept that person’s trust in him for salvation. We are saved by God’s grace through faith, that is, through our trust and reliance on God’s gift of salvation in Christ (Rom. 3:21-26; Eph. 2:8-10; Tit. 3:5-8).

    On the other hand, when one deviates from the basics of sound Christian doctrine it can be evidence that a person is either immature in faith (see Acts 18:25-26) or has not genuinely come into a saving faith relationship with Christ (Rom. 16:17-18).
    Resistance to doctrinal correction would generally be a tip-off that the latter problem is the case.
     
    C1oudwatch3r, JG27_chili and Abdicate says Amen and like this.
  8. If I remember correctly, Keith Green didn't come to know Jesus was God until after he was saved. However, Jesus still has to be God to save.

    One of the Jesus-is-God group of proof texts useful when witnessing to Jehovah Witnesses have to do with who is the First and Last. YHWH is called the First and Last (Isaiah 41:4, 44:6, 48:12-16, Revelation 1:8) and Jesus is called First and Last (Revelation 1:17, 2:8, 21:6-7, 22:12-16). How can there be two firsts and two lasts, unless Jesus is God?

    http://home.dtjsoft.com/apologetics-jesus-christ/
     
    Heart_for_Christ and C1oudwatch3r say Amen and like this.
  9. What would help immensely is a definition of what people mean by God.
     
  10. Fadingman......"If I remember correctly, Keith Green didn't come to know Jesus was God until after he was saved."

    How is that possible????
     
  11. Again....that show the inability to grasp the doctrine of the Trinity. Father-Son- Holy Spirit. Co-equal, co-eternal, co-existent.
    Three persons in one God head.
     
  12. Are you suggesting that I have an inability to grasp the Trinity? Actually, have no difficulty grasping the Trinity. What you've stated here is not the Trinity that was taught in the beginning. What you've stated here actually come from the time of Augustine and it contradicts the Scriptures. The fact that they are called the Father and the Son, shows that they are not co-equal. The Father has authority over the Son.

    Let me ask you, what exactly is a Godhead?
     
  13. My question was not referring to what a person needs to believe about Jesus in order to be saved, although that is a good topic for discussion as well. I was asking how Jesus could atone for anyone's sins if he is not God. In other words, if Jesus is/was not God, then who or what is/was he? A good teacher? An ordinary person who was filled with the spirit more than anyone else? I am saying that I do not think a good teacher or ordinary person's death could substitute for mine in the eyes of God the Father.

    I like Colossians 2:8-10..."See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority."

    Can I explain how Jesus was fully God and fully man simultaneously? No, not really. All I can do is combine the passages that teach that he is God and the passages that teach that he is a man (like your reference in Romans 5).
     
  14. I don't have his biography (No Compromise) handy, but as I recall he trusted in Jesus to save him, and then later someone showed him Jesus is God.

    Differences of authority or office does not imply differences of equality. That would be like saying a police officer or the president is inherently greater than you, or you are greater than your wife.
     
    C1oudwatch3r and Major say Amen and like this.
  15. I my friend am suggesting nothing whatsoever. I simply stated my opinion from YOUR own words.

    You said ......"The fact that they are called the Father and the Son, shows that they are not co-equal".

    The term "Godhead" is found three times in the King James Version: Acts 17:29; Romans 1:20; Colossians 2:9. Three different Greek words are used, but each one means “divinity.” It is important for us to understand from the outset that God exists in three Persons. The concept of the Godhead is that God is one yet God is three

    Deut.6:4 says............
    “Hear, O Israel! The LORD our God, the LORD is one!”

    The unity of the Godhead cannot be questioned. It can be misunderstood or not understood at all. Scripture tells us that God does not consist of parts. He is one. But Scripture reveals that there are, in that one divine essence, three eternal distinctions. Those distinctions seem best described as Persons, known as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. All three have identical attributes, however, and therefore they are one—not merely one in mind and purpose, but one in substance. To possess all the same attributes is to be one in essential nature. The three Persons of the Godhead possess identical attributes. They are one in substance and one in essence, and therefore they are one God.

    But the Holy Spirit is also part of the Godhead. His name is “the Spirit of God” (Genesis 1:2).

    He, too, possesses the attributes of deity and performs the works of deity. While He is the Spirit who proceeds from the Father (John 15:26).

    He is at the same time called “the Spirit of Christ” (Romans 8:9).

    He is coequal with both the Father and the Son. The Apostle Peter clearly viewed Him as God when he said to Ananias, “Why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit? . . . You have not lied to men, but to God” (Acts 5:3-4). If the Father, the Son, and the Spirit all bear the names of God, possess the attributes of God, and perform the works of God, then there is no alternative but to acknowledge that our one God exists in three Persons.
     
    C1oudwatch3r likes this.
  16. Much like a man is a spirit. Man is a body. Man is a soul. Yet, man is one. Many parts, but one car. The difference is that in God's case everything from God is God. His Name resided in the temple, 1 Kings 9:3. "Abdicate" doesn't have a house! We use "Father" and "Son" to show the relationship aspect. When a child come from the parent, what do you call it? Son or Daughter. Jesus was sent by the "Father" so He's the "Son". Yet, I cannot send my "Word" to go and be living flesh, yet, that's exactly what happened. God spoke and by the Word was everything made that was made, visible and invisible, Col 1:6. We think the Word of God is a metaphor, but what if Jesus is the physical manifestation of the spoken Word of God? That's what John said, John 1:1-4. The Hopi indians believe this to the nth degree, stating that everything is God. How wonderful it would be if we believed some of that when we try to usurp one another or take advantage of our station in life over someone or something else, Mark 12:31.

    On a lighter note: What oil does God use?

    3-in-One!

    [​IMG]
     
    Major and JG27_chili say Amen and like this.
  17. There are no mainline churches that are teaching this. If any pastors at any of the Churches I go to were saying that Jesus was not God, they would be immediately deposed. Perhaps a few non-denominational or baptist churches with decentralized organizations might permit it just by virtue of their organization, but I doubt many would attend.

    The only exceptions to this are churches that are dogmatically Unitarian.

    Some people are more theological in their mental processes, and the Trinity is a paradox. I believe, however, that this is because they are not taught the traditional creeds of the Trinity. Namely, Nicaea and Athanasus. These are the codification of theological doctrines that the Bible teaches in totality.

    There are parameters of the Godhead which few people are taught are that each persona (or hypostasis) is coequal, coeternal and coessential. Which means Father, Son and Spirit, are each fully and truly the one God by distinction, but together they also constitute only one God.

    The other important dogmas about the Trinity: It is impossible to fully comprehend (it is a mystery) and it is absolutely simple (the most elementary thing in the universe).
     
  18. Anyone who has a personal relationship with Jesus would never doubt that Jesus is God.

    A Christian is one who has been led by the Holy Spirit and has been given the grace to live God’s Word.

    A Christian is a temple of God, and God is the Father/Jesus/Holy Spirit.

    (John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”
     
    Major likes this.
  19. Your being presumptuous and judgmental.

    A relationship with God is in no way contingent on have a perfect theological understanding. Nor does having such a relationship make someone infallible.
     
  20. You of course have every right to your opinion, but maybe reading what Apostle John about sin might just change your opinion.

    (1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”

    (1 John 3:9) “No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

    A Spiritual Christian is one who has the indwelling of God, and has been begotten by God. John tells us such a person can’t sin.

    Also Paul told us how it is that God made it so one would not sin.

    (Romans 8: 4) “He did this in order that the law’s just demands might be satisfied in us, who behave not as our unspiritual nature but as the Spirit dictates.”

    Then there is scripture that tells us if one who has been given the knowledge of the truth, and deliberately sins then there is no repentance for them.

    (Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies--------“

    This is my understanding about sin, and righteousness, and this understanding I believe was given to me personally by our Lord and God Jesus.

    There is no reason that you have to believe my understanding, but it may be hard to totally ignore the scripture which has been quoted by me.
     
    Major likes this.

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