The Doctrine Of Sinless Perfection

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Brother Paul, Mar 13, 2014.

  1. Is it Biblical? Can it be achieved? Has anyone ever achieved it other than Jesus? Where did it come from?


    brother Paul
  2. I know some people who believe it because of all the scripture saying "He who is born of God does not sin" etc. I think it makes you very self-righteous. I believe the Holy Spirit helps us conquer sin, but idk about the whole sinless perfection thing. Have you been watching Kerrigan Skelly? He's how I know of it.
  3. For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
    Paul also speaks quite a bit about his own failures.

    Anyone who claims to be sinless in this life is delusional. It is a rather pernicious and destructive heresy.
    There are some folks who set a VERY LOW standard for what they consider being sinless.
    AllieWi likes this.
  4. ______________________________________

    It surely is Biblical;
    We are all being perfected until the day of his coming;
    "For by one offering He has perfected forever them that are sanctiifed."

    Too often we see ourselves as the world sees us: we even see the Church as does the world. If the Lord judged us in the present
    (as the Father has given Him to judge all things), we would none of us be saved. But what the Lord has seen, and even now sees,
    is "...the joy that was set before Him...". And what is that joy that He saw in the Garden?

    Surely Jesus saw that the sin of the whole world would be placed on Him: and he prayed, saying: "Father, if you be willing, remove this cup from me; nevertheless, not my will but Thine be done." Three times did He pray that way. The cup was not
    the cup of suffering that he had to endure, but the cup of sin: "...who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame...". Jesus died for the whole world and He surely is our (the whole world's) propitiation: but it is because
    of the Church that he received the joy, "...and gave Himself for her."
  5. Charles Finney in his Systematic Theology says sinless perfection involves no longer being able to sin, and that grace is no longer required, and that in his understanding of the scriptures this is not possible. Some say this was a position developed by John Wesley (A Plain Account of Christian Perfection) but most Nazarenes say this only means that our intentions and attitudes become so immersed in the Holy Spirit and He is us, that all of our “good works” (coming from faith in Him) would all be counted by God as works which would not be burned up (1 Corinthians 3:12-15). Christian humorist Tom Butler once said he believes it is possible, because he personally experienced a period of time where he committed zero sins, but then he woke up! Hmmm? It does appear to me some factions try to imply this is possible (based on commandment keeping) that all but certain members of their group are somehow deluded into thinking they are saved. I like CMV's description sounds biblically correct to me.
  6. Team Jesus Preachers on YouTube preach this. Loudly. In public places. I thought it was cool at first until I realized what they were preaching.
  7. ________________________________________

    Beloved, what is it that they were preaching? Was it something that offended you?
  8. Jesus said we can be like the master. A man that does not offend in word or deed is a perfect man. We are given Apostles, Prophets, teachers...... and on for the perfecting of the Saints. We walk after the spirit will will not satisfy the lust of the flesh. Put away your old man.

    There are more than enough scriptures to support it. However, what is Sinless perfection? Scripture talks about perfection.

    perfect means complete, at the top of your game.

    Sin is a violation of light given.

    I have gone months at a time, praying in tongues, staying filled with the Holy Spirit and not sinned.

    but.............. have made mistakes.

    Some might say I never sin knowledgeably, that does not take away the fact we are not mistake proof.

    I am not sure I like the term sinless perfection. Not saying it's not possible, I have gone months with nothing to repent about, I am not sin conscience.

    How to stay in that condition though, I have yet to figure out. Me being dumb, does not mean it's not possible for someone.

    I don't know, something to shoot for.

    AllieWi likes this.
  9. This is a funny subject! It is so easy to get it confused because the facts are:

    1. All of us sin 1 John 1:8
    2. No sin / sinner will be in God's presence Isaiah 59:2.

    The mystery solved / answer is in Matt 15:18 But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander.

    and John 8:36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

    Conclusion: Being 'in-Christ' = sinless perfection. Whether believing OSAS = new creations 2 Cor 5:17 or pure Arminian = our hearts intent to please Him outweighs our desire for the flesh / we constantly desire to repent and confess our sins Rom 8:13.
  10. "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect" (Matthew 5:48).

    "We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17By this, love is perfected with us...There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." (1 John 4:17-18).

    "Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect, able to keep their whole body in check (James 3:2).

    This is the ministry of the two witnesses in Revelation 11. They will be perfected having the fullness of the Holy Spirit working through them always.
    AllieWi likes this.
  11. Great responses. So it seems we all pretty much is Christian perfection not sinless perfection and this IS accomplished by God when the Spirit baptizes those children by faith being born from above into Christ Jesus. His word/work is 100% effectual and will accomplish what He set forth to accomplish. To grasp this we need to understand "perfect" as the Scriptures have said not as man supposes to judge.

    Thanks family,

    brother Paul
    AllieWi likes this.
  12. No it didn't offend me. I think it's awesome that they are presching in the streets but they believe in keeping your salvation thru works-- and that you no longer sin after u are saved. They preach to people about their sin instead of Gods love.

    I know some believe this, I just don't. Because if my own relationship with God and how He has worked in my life the last 11 years. I know I'm saved and that I'm his. But I still sin. I hate my sin, but it happens.
  13. This sounds more accurate Paul.

    I think that sounds more in line with what the scripture tells us to achieve. Perfection In Christ. IN HIM, not our sinless perfection.

    I am not saying we have to sin, but the sin was already taken care of on the cross by HIS Word and redemption.

    We are told to receive with meekness the en-grafted Word which saves our souls (mind, emotions) We are told to be transformed by the renewing of our mind. We are told to walk in the spirit and we will be empowered not to fulfill the lust and desire of our flesh.
    we are told to put away the old man.

    Nothing pointing to striving against sinless perfection but striving to change our mind more in line to have the same mind as Christ. Going from Faith to faith, from Glory to Glory.

    A little understood fact. Jesus did not start out perfect.

    We need to follow his example, as he took care of the sin part for us, and look at His example of what perfection He had to obtain.
    He never sinned, but he was not perfect starting out. We need to look at that perfection, the same as he did as the sin part is something we have nothing to do with achieving on our own.
  14. ___________________________________________

    Beloved, I don't know that crowd, and I don't know their message. I did look them up, and thought that their message was a little harsh; however, if they were led that way by the Holy Spirit...I can't say.
    "Keeping your salvation through works"? I don't know. I know that the Gospel saves, and sound doctrine keeps one saved: "...unless you have believed in vain."
    AllieWi likes this.
  15. _______________________________________________

    By not starting out perfect, I take it you mean that it was because he was born as a man?
  16. Well, scripture does say work out your own Salvation with fear and trembling.

    The issue is that Word Salvation, because its something we should confess and believe in without wavering.

    the word means health, healed, saved from enemies, to be rescued from something. Translated as Health in Acts. Jesus said all things are possible to them that believe. Peter said by the means in which this man was healed, was by faith in the name of Jesus by which men may healed, as no other name has been given men by which they may be healed.

    So, I think it would depend on how this group is using the Word, as the Word does not denote eternal life. That would be Zoe, Aionios

    Not . Soteria.
    AllieWi likes this.
  17. "For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings" (Hebrews 2:10).

    What this verse is saying is that even though Jesus was sinless, his sufferings proved him to be perfect.
  18. No, but the scripture in Luke. that scripture....... daughter needs something hold on.
  19. What verse are you talking about?
  20. #20 MichaelH, Mar 14, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2014
    Must I always fetch your folks water!!!! Wait, never mind that cost Moses............... I am surprised nobody knows what that is, because Jesus is our example of perfection.


    Make me pull up E-Sword.............

    Luk 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

    Jesus was not perfect in favour with God, He later said my Father Hears me because I always do what he says do. He increased in Wisdom and Stature with God and man.

    There was a reason he was led out into the wilderness to be tempted. He had to pass the test, and increased more and more.

    This tells us the sin problem is taken care of, but we need to increase in these areas just Like He did. None of us can start out above what He started, but we follow what He did.

    This increase in God, and Growing "IN" Christ is the perfection the Word talks about. To keep our tongue from offending (In a wrong way James)

Share This Page