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The Divine Nature

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Mitspa, Feb 26, 2014.

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  1. I know that some may struggle to accept some of the things that I will be posting on this thread. I will in absolute terms conflict with what some have been taught as it relates to the scriptures and there true meaning. I hope that all will give me place to explain and reason within the scriptures as to the truth of what I am trying to declare as "truth". First I think we should consider that the "divine" nature is the very nature of God. We have this by the Spirit of God, if any man have not the Spirit of God this thread may not make much sense to you? God would have us live apart from fear, guilt, and shame. He would have us to walk free from all religious bondage and in confidence that we are indeed His beloved children. Perfect liberty is what He desires for us, with no holds to this world, except those which love would tie us to. The doctrines and traditions of guilt and shame are not the doctrines that are given in the New Covenant... this I hope to prove in a clear and biblical way. Blessings- Mitspa
     
  2. Ro 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
    15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

    Now I think it is clear that one of the greatest promises of the "old" covenant was that one day, man would have Gods law in there heart and would not need any man teach them. No one can read Pauls epistles and believe that he is in some way speaking about the unsaved gentiles in this passage.

    Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

    No, Paul is clearly speaking of "born-again" gentiles, who through love keep that which the law demanded.

    Ro 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
    29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
     
  3. As one Jew to another, then I would have to say, Shalom!
     
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  4. #4 Mitspa, Feb 26, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2014
    Here is an interesting side note. Why was the issue of circumcision so important? First of course, it was the first act (work) according to the law, on the eight day a young male was circumcised and brought into the law to live by the law. It was an act of self-righteousness which of course is completely contrary to the gospel of grace. But the big deal was that in circumcision the promise was given to Abraham that through his seed the Christ would come, so it in effect it was a sign that those of Abraham was waiting for the promise. Now Christ was the fulfillment of all that was promised to Abe, and in effect those who where yet being circumcised where declaring that Jesus was not the fulfillment of those promises given to Abraham.
     

  5. Prior to the act of circumcision you see that Abraham tried to fulfill Gods promise to him though the servant girl Hagar. They, Sarah and Abraham, believed by their works they could obtain Gods promise (Gal 4:22-24). The act of circumcision is the strange act of cutting the foreskin of the male. I believe this action was to serve as a reminder to Abraham and his descendents that it is dependence on God alone that you can obtain victory and ultimately the promise. The Jewish people eventually would lose site of this object lesson.
     
  6. I very much agree with your point, but the scriptures are clear as to what circumcision represented in the seed of Abraham. I believe many lessons can be learned, as it relates to mans attempts to "earn" by the works of the flesh what God only gives according to (promise) grace. The Galatian church, was not a "Jewish" church but a Gentile church, but certain Jews had come in demanding that certain parts of the law of Moses had to be imposed upon these gentile believers. Thus Paul's stand against those who attempt to bring back into bondage those who have been set free from the law, in Christ.

    Ga 5:1 ¶ Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
    2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
    3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
    4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
    5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
    6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

    Now circumcision is not the issue, the law (10 commandments) Sabbath etc.. is the issue of bondage. One cannot pick and choose "parts" of the law to keep, one must keep ALL THE LAW, to be justified by the law. (every jot and tittle)
     
  7. Ga 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. {covenants: or, testaments}
    Ga 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
    Ga 5:1 ¶ Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

    Now what was given at Sinai? The 10, and then the rest of the law (old covenant) built from the 10.

    Ro 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
    6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
    7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
    8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
     
  8. Perfect liberty can only be found in God's Spirit. Those who walk by the law are walking in the flesh rather than the Spirit of God. If we walk by the Spirit we live the commands of God because they are life to us, they are God's perfect love and will acting through us. Only in God's Spirit do we experience life and are alive for it is there we are alive in Christ.

    Romans 4 is a good place to find explanation on the circumcision.
    Romans 8:1 -8:17-
    8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

    3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

    4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

    6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

    7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

    8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

    9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

    10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

    11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

    12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

    13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

    14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

    15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

    16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

    17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    Sorry, but this is so beautiful I don't want to cut it even now.
     
  9. I can see I am going to have to come back to this thread and go through the points methodically and carefully when I have a chance.

    God Bless,
    MoG
     
  10. Absolutely agree Olivia, is it alright if I call you that too? Yes, in the fulfillment of circumcision, it is the flesh being cut away from the "heart" Spirit. But I think it is important to see the fulfillment of its first purpose as given to Abraham, because Paul deals with this issue very often as he relates to his Jewish brothers in the Lord.

    Ge 17:3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
    4 ¶ As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
    5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
    6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
    7 ¶ And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
    8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
    9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
    10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
    11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
    12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
    13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.


    Ga 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
    17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
    18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

    Now my point in raising this issue is that "circumcision" is not just about legalism that defeats grace,(bad enough) but it is a denial of the promises made to Abraham that are only fulfilled in Christ. In effect these Jews where rejecting Christ as the fulfillment of Gods promises to Abraham. At that time this was of the most importance to the Jews, thus the issue is brought up over and over in the epistles. But this is just a interesting side issue to my topic of the divine nature, but all these truths work together and are "divine" when we behold just how Christ fulfilled "every jot and tittle" of what was written in the Old Testament law.
     
  11. Ro 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
    15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.

    I really thought someone would be offended that I did not read this passage as tradition has taught. Like I stated before, I do not see how one could hold that "Gentiles" somehow have "Gods law written in their heart"? In context of Rom 2 and the truth of scripture, these passages could only be speaking of born-again Gentile believers. Now when I understood this scripture, as God intended it, it gave me insight to how God was working in me. That if I would be honest about what God had written upon my heart, I would not need any man to teach me, I would not need a list or set of rules to be enforced upon me. Liberty from these things is the goal of the New Testament. Instead what has happened through the works of satan and his ministers, the legalistic mindset of the law has been brought in the New Testament. It is just a new set of rules to add to the old set of rules, to some. Now none of those who promote these legalistic standards, keep the biblical standard, but have become that which God hates most, hypocrites and white painted tombs. From the beginning, the Holy Spirit sought that we would have liberty, for when liberty is understood, righteousness flows from those who have received righteousness.

    Ac 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
    25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
    26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
    28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
    29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

    The first churches where founded in liberty, not legalism. The divine nature, only works in liberty.
     
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  12. #12 ixoye_8, Feb 27, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2014
    Gen 17:11 “And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be the sign of the covenant between Me and you.

    circumcision (part 1) like Baptism (part 2) is a symbolic act of embracing the covenant of Faith .. it was a symbolic act of the "circumcision of the heart" .. this is why it was said to Moses upon requiring it of his son "he was a blood husband" (Exd 4:25) .. no covenant was ever made without blood (Hbr 9:18) ..

    even the covenant of the Law of Moses was made with blood (Exd 24:8) ..
    and so was (part 2) of the covenant of Faith (Mat 26:28) ..
     
  13. what is legalism ???
    I do not find liberty without requirements ..
    Liberty is the unburdening from a covenant that has atonement without redemption
    I proudly claim it inre to the Law of Christ in which I seek earnestly to obey ..
     
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  14. was not God's divine nature acting in the giving of the Covenant of Law to Moses ???
    was it not given to the Israelites because they lost sight of the covenant of faith and God had to take them back to the beginning, and had to treat them like a child who needs rules because they cannot act responsible on their own ???
     
  15. #15 Mitspa, Feb 27, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2014
    Not sure what (part 2) you are speaking, the covenant of faith was well before Moses, just as Paul wrote in absolute terms? My point being that those who where teaching circumcision where not only teaching legalism, but where rejecting the "fact" that Christ was the fulfillment of the covenant and purpose of circumcision given to Abraham, Now if one says that (in us) circumcision is fulfilled in the heart? I would completely agree, but this not take away from the importance of Christ being the fulfillment of Abrahams seed.

    Ga 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
    17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
    18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

    If you want to call the law (part 2) then you would be in agreement with the truth of scripture.

    So a little confused about what point you are making, or how it relates to what I have before posted on the issue?
     
  16. There is a requirement, to the Divine Nature, not to written codes.
    "Legalism" could best be described as the attempt to obtain by efforts of man (flesh), that which God only gives by the Spirit of grace.

    2Co 3:6 ¶ Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
     
  17. Of course God always does what is right, but man cannot, that is the purpose of the law. To condemn all men as "wretched" and bring all to the righteousness of faith through Christ Jesus. This is basic stuff, but it seems there are so many who cannot or will not understand the purpose of the law.

    Ro 3:19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
    20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
     
  18. #18 ixoye_8, Feb 27, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2014
    Baruch ..
    part 2 is a reference to God completing the covenant of Faith ..
     
  19. #19 ixoye_8, Feb 27, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2014
    sure there is ..
    Mat 19:17
    And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

    B’ Shalom
     
  20. the thing many are not aware of .. Paul mainly does speak on the Law of Moses, but there are some verses in which He speaks on the Law of Moses AND the Law of Christ as well ..
    1Cr 9:21
    to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

    the same is true about works .. Paul mainly speaks about the "works of the Law of Moses" as being futile .. however NOT the "works of the Law of Christ" ..

    Kol Tuv
     
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