But you was trying to imply that this is some sort of requirement ...read your own post!
The Dangers Of The Pre-tribulation Rapture Doctrine.
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No, I never meant to say that all Christians will become martyrs. Both the Bible and common sense disprove this notion. What I said is that a doctrine that teaches that Christians will not be martyred is not Biblical.
I have said it before, I don't know of any Christian who doesn't hope for a pre-trib rapture but I don't see any convincing scriptures that show a pre-trib rapture. Christ does promise us that we will experience persecution, torture, and physical death for our beliefs. While I am not as knowledgeable on Muslim end times beliefs as Sergio, I agree that expecting a pre-trib rapture, when it doesn't happen can be dangerous to those who believe, possibly destroying their faith and misleading greatly. So I continue to pray pre-trib or that I am taken before the trib. It's a valid warning to keep in mind, and whatever God's plan is will find us on the right path back to Him.
PS - sorry Sergio, I agree with you. Surely a death knell that we must be wrong.
PS - sorry Sergio, I agree with you. Surely a death knell that we must be wrong.
Morning Silk, I'm glad to see you back, I've missed your smiles and waves!
Be blessed,
Gene
My I share my thoughts?
I my self are not waiting for Jesus to come and take me somewhere, as I am already sitting on the right hand of God in Christ Jesus. This is a reality not some made up fiction! Our citizen ship is in Heaven, and it is from there we are waiting for the appearing of our great God and saviour who will change these physical bodies to be made like His Glorious body! My hope is in getting a brand new spiritual body, that does not have sin connected to it, and the lust of the flesh are history.
I tell other believers that it is really really hard to try and make a surprise welcoming party for someone who lives in the exact same house as you do! Come on, seeing all preparation in God Kingdom can not be hidden from us, and that is why scripture tells us....
1 Thessalonians 5:1, But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1 Thessalonians 5:2, For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief
in the night.
1 Thessalonians 5:3, For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon
them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1 Thessalonians 5:4, But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1 Thessalonians 5:5, Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the
night, nor of darkness
We will not be surprised because that day shall not overtake us as a thief, because we are in his Kingdom in Christ.
I my self are not waiting for Jesus to come and take me somewhere, as I am already sitting on the right hand of God in Christ Jesus. This is a reality not some made up fiction! Our citizen ship is in Heaven, and it is from there we are waiting for the appearing of our great God and saviour who will change these physical bodies to be made like His Glorious body! My hope is in getting a brand new spiritual body, that does not have sin connected to it, and the lust of the flesh are history.
I tell other believers that it is really really hard to try and make a surprise welcoming party for someone who lives in the exact same house as you do! Come on, seeing all preparation in God Kingdom can not be hidden from us, and that is why scripture tells us....
1 Thessalonians 5:1, But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1 Thessalonians 5:2, For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief
in the night.
1 Thessalonians 5:3, For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon
them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1 Thessalonians 5:4, But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1 Thessalonians 5:5, Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the
night, nor of darkness
We will not be surprised because that day shall not overtake us as a thief, because we are in his Kingdom in Christ.
Thanks, brother.
I could care less which happens (pre trib or post trib). But, for the Antichrist and false prophet to come up with a one world religion other than Christianity, we as Christians are going to have to be gone. Like others have said, we would be putting up a pretty good spiritual fight. Christians that don't get taken up in the rapture (pre trib) will pretty much know what happened and if they are smart will fall on their knees and repent their sins. These are the Christians after the rapture, in my honest opinion.
You could be right. If we use the parable of the "sower" where only 1 in 4 of the types of soiled produced fruit of their salvation, that would mean 25% of all the Bible believing Churches who believe in the new birth would be real children of God.
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I agree with your assessment of the Pre-Trib rapture and I would wish and hope that the pew warmers that will be left behind would have a second chance, but that's not what Paul teaches,
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2Th 2:10-12
Notice who it is that will be damned, those that believe not the Truth, after the Church is raptured those that received not the love of the Truth in the Word, God will send a strong delusion on them so that they can't believe, we have an illustration of this in Moses' dealing with Pharaoh, we read at first he hardened his heart against the Truth and then we read God hardened his heart against the Truth . It's very serious to twist the Word to one's own destruction, but even more grave to be the cause of someone else's deception and damnation.
This is another verse that points to a pre-Trib Rapture, if the Rapture is at the end of the Trib, who are the people that will be given this strong delusion so as to believe the lie of the AC, he has already been thrown into the Lake of Fire, ...the people that will go through the Millennium, would that be Just of God? How ridiculous, He separates the sheep from the goats becaue of how they favorable treated the Jews during the Trib so that He can send them a strong delusion and be damned???
Like I said, how ridiculous!!! Folks,be very care of listening to people who twist and distort the Scriptures to their own damnation, ...let it be theirs and not yours!
Gene
Can not argue against scripture for sure. Thanks for sharing that.
It also says that even some of the "elect" will be deceived and who are these elect if they are all raptured? The problem of stating categorically that the pre-trib rapture will happen has terrible consequences for believers if it does not happen, whereas hoping for it but not basing your entire faith on it, leaves you unshaken and firm. The warning remains valid. In this case, I want to be wrong but your interpetation of scripture is not what is written. It is NOT clearly stated as such.
Sure it is bro, it's the mystery Paul declared that had been hidden for the ages before him,
It's Christ in us! Col 1:26,27
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
The promise of the New Covenant Jer 31:31-34 is the Holy Spirit indwelling believers, Christ is in us in the person of the Holy Spirit, now I ask, can the Holy Spirit be deceived, of course not, He's the One who wrote the Book, is it possible for a believer (one of the elect) to be deceived, ...not if they have received the love of the Truth, the love to love Jesus, the Word that became Flesh, and that's something we can't do of ourselves no matter how hard we try, for without Me you can do nothing John 15,.
...I can't even love this glorious Being who gave Himself for me, was tortured and crucified in my place, took the punishment for my sin, who was thinking about me, me personally, Gene, I was on His mind (and so were you) as He was hanging on the Cross.
Scripture clearly teaches that I must receive the love to love Him just like I received my faith, salvation, sanctification, mercy, grace, peace, joy and everything else I have, it has ALL come from Him.
To God be the glory, great things Hes has done!
Blessings,
Gene
Sorry for calling you brother, sister. I would like to add that the doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture, if false, exposes the church to the deceptions of the Antichrist, since those who adhere to the pre-tribulation doctrine believe that the Antichrist will not be revealed until after the rapture. Also, I am pretty sure that the Antichrist will not arrive saying: "Hi everyone, I am the Antichrist". It will take a lot of knowledge to recognize him for what he really is.
The spirit of anti-Christ was already at work in the time John wrote his gospels and epistles....this "spirit" has been at work every since and is not confined to one man or being..although they may be a manifest man in the end that has this spirit and brings the fulfillment of certain scriptures.
Gene, the Bible tells us that the Antichrist will try to deceive the elect (Matthew 24:24). You say that the elect are led by the Holy Spirit and protected by it. I wholeheartedly agree with this. However, you also state that the Holy Spirit will not be present during the reign of the Antichrist. So, how does this make sense? Will the Holy Spirit abandon his elect, despite what the Scripture says Matthew 28:20, John 14:16, Ephesians 4:30?
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