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The Dangers Of The Pre-tribulation Rapture Doctrine.

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by SergioL, Jun 14, 2014.

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  1. The doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture is supported by the vast majority of Christians. However, there are valid reasons to question the Biblical origins of this doctrine, since a straightforward reading of the verses about the latter days seems to suggest a post-tribulation rapture. However, the objective of this thread is not to discuss the validity of the pre-tribulation doctrine, but to point out its dangers. Let's assume for a moment that the pre-tribulation rapture does not take place. That would mean that the church will enter the Great Tribulation both discouraged and confused. However, the dangers of believing in a pre-tribulation rapture do not end there. Far from it, they just begin at that point.

    The real danger of believing in a pre-tribulation rapture lies in the nature of the Antichrist and the False Prophet. According to my understanding of the Bible, it is likely that one of these figures will claim to be the Christ. Hence, during the Great Tribulation Christians will be in danger of believing that either the Antichrist or the False Prophet is Jesus coming to reign over the face of the Earth (the start of the millennium). Until now all of this may seem like science fiction, but the fact is that this is exactly what Islamic eschatology tells us about the end of times. Islamic eschatology is incredibly similar to Christian eschatology, but turned upside down. The Islamic Messiah (the Mahdi = the Biblical Antichrist) is supposed to conquer Israel and rule over it for seven years. His second in command will be the Islamic Jesus (Isa = the Biblical False Prophet) who will mark the foreheads of the Muslims and behead the enemies of the Mahdi. Both the Mahdi and Isa will fight against the Islamic Antichrist (Dajjal = the real Jesus) who will defend the Jews. To summarize, the real danger of a pre-tribulation doctrine is that it exposes the church to the deceptions of the False Prophet (the Islamic Jesus). Here you have some info about these characters:

    Isa: Contrary to the Christian belief regarding Jesus, according to Islam, Isa was never crucified, was not the Son of God, was not divine, never experienced death, and was only a human prophet. The expected return of Isa is not remotely similar to what Christians expect with the return of Jesus. Instead, the character and actions of Isa are far more similar to the false prophet mentioned in Revelation. A Brief Summary of Isa's Future Accomplishments 1). He will be subordinate to the Mahdi. 2). Directs all attention off of himself and onto the Mahdi. 3). A devout Muslim. 4). Institutes Islamic Sharia Law. 5). Acts as a Muslim evangelist. 6). Abolishes Christianity. 7). Kills the Dajjal as well as his Jewish followers. 8). Persecute Christians and Jews and forces them to convert or face death. 9). Remains on earth approximately four years. 10). Marries and eventually dies.

    Mahdi: We will be going over the prophecies pertaining to him in depth right after this post and compare them to the prophecies of the Antichrist but here is a brief list of some of the things he is expected to accomplish. If you are familiar with the Antichrist prophecies, some of the below may surprise you and you will be able to spot some of the similarities immediately: 1). Become the universal leader for all Muslims. 2). Will rule the non-Muslim world as well. 3). Conquer Israel. 4). Have his headquarters in Jerusalem. 5). Will make a seven year peace treaty with Israel. 6). Will rule for seven years (or possibly 8-9). 7). Discover the ark of the covenant and ancient biblical texts. 8). Cause only Islam to be the practiced religion. 9). Distribute wealth to the populace. 10). Be a powerful and unprecedented military and political leader. 11). Be given supernatural power from Allah over nature. 12). Arrive on the scene after a period of great turmoil. 13). Establish a new world order/government. 14). Will wage war against Jews and Christians.
  2. 1 Thessalonians 5:9
    For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

    How could any Christian fall for the Islamic teachings of the antichrist? I'm looking up, and as far as I know, the Islamic Mahdi doesn't descend from Heaven with a shout. I'll know Jesus when he comes, everyone else is a false prophet.
  3. Good for you, but some other Christians might be deceive by him (Mark 13:22)
  4. That explains why you believe what you believe. Islamic end-times religion isn't what's going to happen. Islam is a reverse belief system from when Muhammad was taught by a Coptic monk. I'm saddened that you seem to be more excited about what they believe rather than what the word of God says. You have one flaw "my understanding of the Bible". Prophecy is of no private interpretation. So I repeat what I said before: maybe this time you'll read it.

    My two cents ;) are that just as Jesus wasn't recognized by the Pharisees even though two messiah's were taught (son of Joseph and son of David - the suffering messiah and the the king messiah), there are yet multiple gatherings to come. The "escape from wrath", in my opinion, is for those who were found faithful when He comes in the clouds, His bride, but not all are the bride, just like John the Baptist was a friend of the bride, John 3:29. I see the rapture as a gift for the faithful, not a right, Luke 21:36. (Oops! :eek: I've offended someone for sure :rolleyes:) Next we know the very day of His kingdom return to earth: 1260 days from the time the two witness are murdered and the abomination of desolation which will be on Passover, most likely, of some year; add 1260 days (Rev 11:3; 12:6) and you get 1 Tishri, 3.5 years later (DDan 12:7; ev 12:14 - odd verse combo there! :speechless:), on the Feast of Trumpets. So that leaves an unknown day, Matt 24:36. Which coincidentally there is only one day in the calendar year one cannot know in advance according to traditional settings of the Jewish calendar: 1 Tishri! Wow :eek:... coincident(y)? Time will tell. Pun intended. :ROFLMAO: Besides even if that wasn't its meaning, without a point of reference we wouldn't know when any event would happen because on planet earth today, this second, there are two days and 42 official time zones. :sleep:

    Next, Mat 24:29-31clearly state that there is a gathering of the "elect" AFTER the tribulation, but Mat 13:41says that all that offends will be gathered at the end of the world. So which is it? o_OAhhh multiple gatherings. Next 1 Thes 4:13-17says the righteous are taken and the wicked are left behind. Mat 13:30, 49says the wicked are taken first and righteous are left behind. o_OThis points to two separate events, the rapture and the second coming. (y) Next John 14:2-3states that Jesus is going to prepare a place for us in which I guess we never visit if we to meet Him in the air, 1 Thess 4:17, only to do a 180 to return to earth to start His kingdom. :eek::cry::( Then there's the wedding... Luke 12:36, Rev 19:9, Luke 14... when does this happen?:cautious: (Oh... well after we're destroyed in the tribulation I guess :cry:) When is the judgment seat of Christ, 2 Cor 5:10? When will we get our crowns (one at His appearing, yes, 2 Tim 4:8another - James 1:12, 1and another Pet 5:4 but when) and then give it to Him in heaven, Rev 4:10, (only 24 out of how many Christians?) when we never make it there, but only as far as the clouds? Hmm... He comes from heaven with some riding white horses, but those raptured at the end are whisked to the clouds, judged, given crowns, mount a horse, and continue to the earth to defeat the antichrist? o_O:cautious:

    Then you have Matt 25:31-46: why would there need to be a separating of the goats (bad people) and the sheep (good people) if we've already met Him in the air, :sneaky: unless these sheep were those that survived the wrath of God... salvation during the tribulation (Oops! Another dogma shot to pieces! :confused:) Finally, who will populate the millennium so the devil can tempt, Rev 20; at the end of the 1000 years if all the good are raptured out to meet Jesus in the air only to return to earth at that moment and the bad are gathered to be thrown into the lake of fire? Or see a child of 100 die, Isa 65:20! :confused: And how can we be called accursed unless it's referring to the child being born to those that made it through the tribulation without the mark of the beast. :X3:

    So see, you're both right and you're both wrong. There's no need to interpret each verse (since it's forbidden anyhow, 2 Pet 1:20(y)), just put them ALL into a pile, like the old puzzle days, use common sense and put them together using the Holy Spirit to show you the big picture. Oh don't forget the "he who will now letteth", 2 Thess 2:7, is taken away "and then shall that wicked be revealed"! Who keeps evil at bay? Wait! Then there's 2 Thess 2:3which says "except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition" hmmm another contradiction! :cautious: UNLESS!!! :LOL: Glory to God! :ROFLMAO: You understand that the word "apostasia" also means DEPARTURE!! Oh wow! :D:D Now we're smoking! First the departure THEN the son of perdition is revealed. The Holy Spirit is the down-payment on our salvation Eph 1:13-14, so if He goes (2 Thess 2:7) and the wicked be revealed, then we too will go with Him! :p

    Booya! <Elvis> "Thank ya very much!" :cool:
    Silk likes this.
  5. Thanks, brother, but I don't believe in what I believe because of Islamic eschatology. I believe in a post-tribulation rapture simply because that's what the Bible teaches. However, it is noteworthy that the doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture exposes the church to the deceptions of the Antichrist. This view is reinforced by Islamic eschatology, but it is not based on it.
  6. Yea sounds like Islamic eschatology!
  7. Yep!
  8. It is not Islamic eschatology. I just mentioned certain aspects of Islamic eschatology for you to understand the dangerous of believing in a pre-tribulation rapture. The doctrine of the post-tribulation rapture is not as dangerous because under this scenario the church is always ready to confront the Antichrist and to be faithful even to their deaths.
  9. There is nothing dangerous in the pre-Tribulational rapture teaching that is taught in God's word. We are going to be spared His wrath which will be poured out on the earth---on the unbelieving nations of this world.

    If the Church would be in the world during the rise of the Antichrist, we would defeat Him by the power and authority of Holy Spirit in us. No, the Antichrist will come to power because the Church and her authority is removed from the earth.
  10. The Holy Spirit is not here to fight against political leaders. Besides, the Bible says clearly that the Antichrist will wage war on the Saints and will defeat them (Revelation 13:7).
    Where is the Messiah likes this.
  11. Whack, whack, whack, whack, whack!

    Where's the "beating the dead horse" emoticon when I need it? :rolleyes:
  12. And the Bible states clearly, the gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church!

    To quote abdicate, it saddens me you are so confused.

    In His Love,

  13. LOL! Well, if a despot like Hitler came to complete world power, I am sure the Body of Christ in the world would tie his hands well. We have the authority to do it, and it would succeed. That is why Jesus is going to remove His Bride while God works with the Jew, which is why it is called the Time of Jacob's Trouble. It isn't for us. It is a time for the Jews to accept their Messiah, and for the unbelieving world to suffer under the Antichrist's tyranny, and several judgments and catastrophes that are going to come.
    Cosmicwaffle likes this.
  14. Those "saints" are not the Church.
  15. LOL!

  16. So, how do you explain Revelation 13:7?
  17. Who are they, then?
  18. Revelation 13:7 (NLT)
    And the beast was allowed to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And he was given authority to rule over every tribe and people and language and nation.

    They are the Jews. antichrist will have a major agenda to eradicate the Jews from the earth.
  19. The Revelation tells us who they are and here is the key to understanding it,

    Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; Rev 1:19

    What did John see? Jesus Christ glorified, chapter 1

    What are the things which are? The Church, chapters 2 & 3

    What are the things to come? Come after what, the Church, starting with chapt 4:1 through the rest of the book, it's all layed out chronologically.

    What does Chapt 4:1 say,

    After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. Rev 4:1

    After this, John was the itinerant pastor to the seven churches, they were located on a Roman postal route, just look at the map in the back of your Bible, the seven churches named are in a circle, hence after the Church, where did the Voice (Jesus in the first chapter) say to him (symbolic or representing the church) come up here! Where is up here? After the Bride (Church) is with Jesus we are told what is going to happen on planet earth, Chapt 6-19 the Tribulation, so you answer your own question, who will be the saints that come out of the Trib, here is a hint for you, where will they be and what will they do for all of Eternity, Rev 7:14, 15


  20. Yes that was the Roman perversion of the faith..
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