The Controversy Between Christ And Satan

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Man-ofGod, Jan 10, 2014.

  1. Where did it all begin? I believe scripture explains the issue plainly. God bless!

    In the biblical narrative it says that Satan (which means enemy) was not always Satan. Instead he was Lucifer, a perfect being (Ezekiel 28:12) and remained that way until iniquity was found within him (Eze 28:15). Lucifer's downfall began with pride (Eze 28:17; Isa 14:12). He was not happy with his station but sought to a rank higher than the Son of God , even to that of God himself (Isa 14:13-14).

    He gained angelic sympathizers to his plight through deceit (Rev 12:4 Isa 9:15) and caused division. He claimed that Gods laws were unfair and cannot be kept by men, that they were a burden and that the angelic host deserved to be free. Yet Gods law was precisely in place to maintain harmony in heaven. As a result, war broke out in heaven between those whole followed Christ and those who followed Lucifer (Rev 12:7). Eventually Lucifer now Satan and his angelic host lost the battle and was cast out of heaven to the earth (Rev 12:8-9, Luke 10:18).

    On earth, God created our first parents in His image (Gen 1:26). He gave them dominion of all that was made (ibid) which means they were to rule this planet and represent this planet. God gave them access to every tree in the garden save one (Gen 2:16-17). This one prohibition would prove to be a test of loyalty. Adam (which means mankind) would be on probation until the conditions for the test were fulfilled. The penalty for disobeying was on pain of death.

    This was Satans chance to usurp Adams authority and become the prince of this world (John 14:30). Satan was only permitted access to the forbidden tree. There he would wait patiently for his opportunity and try to get them to partake of the forbidden fruit. Satan was successful (Gen 3:1-7) and man fell and Satan gains authority. In his victory, it would seem to all the angles that maybe he was right and that Gods laws are unjust.

    Right there in Genesis , God does not condemn Adam but instead reveals his plan of salvation and our purpose for still living on earth (Gen 3:15). This is the first bible prophecy and will fully come to pass in the last days. This "seed" came in the form of Jesus and it is Jesus working through us (Rom 16:20) that we will put an end to Satan. Our purpose is to vindicate Gods character and his laws. The universe will know of a surety that Gods laws are fair Once man demonstrates perfection through the power of God working through us, just as the son of God did when he came to this planet in human form, will Satan's accusations have no power.

    God bless,
    KingJ likes this.
  2. The "son of God" is not mentioned in Isaiah 14:13-14.
    Before creating the angels, God formulated a plan. In His plan God foresaw the fall of Lucifer and a third of His angels: He also saw the fall of man. God chose a miniscule portion of eternity and enclosed it in time: a beginning and an end. He then created the angels. "You were perfect in all your ways, until iniquity was found in you."
    There are no laws in eternity, save the Law of Holiness: and nothing contrary to holiness can stand in God's presence. So when iniquity was found in Lucifer, he and his followers were cast out of eternity to that portion of eternity that had a beginning; but most important of all, it has an end! This place is but a speck in eternity, but man looks up and enjoys the immensity of the universe! With satan's presence, chaos reigned there. God foresaw that this place was "...without form, and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep." And God started to place everything in order.
    Having created the heavens and the earth in five days, God now created all the beasts of the field, then "...the Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground." God's plan begins to unfold. God had already planned to allow Lucifer to commit iniquity, and man to sin; and in His plan, God made a provision to punish Lucifer's iniquity and redeem man from sin. How? God established the Law of Grace after casting Lucifer out from His presence: but man was created after establishing grace. Therefore, although Lucifer could not be punished because there was no law against iniquity, neither could he be forgiven because he was created before the Law of Grace! Because man, however, was created after the Law of Grace ( and within its periphery), man could be redeemed.
    Incidentally, the first bible prophecy was pronounced by Adam: "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh...Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother...". Tell me: what father and mother?

  3. It is a nice story, but where is the scripture support? Eze 28:16 says Lucifer " sinned" and 1 John 3:4 tells us that sin is the transgression of God's law. So how could it be that there was no "law" again iniquity when sin is the very act of breaking God's law? Also how could it be that Lucifer cannot be punished when it says specifically in Eze 28:18 that Lucifer will be devoured and brought to ashes upon the earth? Please provide scriptural support for your position. Thank you and God Bless.
  4. Question:Question: Good (honest) question. Now where is sin mentioned in eternity? Listen, Beloved:
    "You were perfect in all your ways until iniquity was found in you. By the multitude of your merchandise they have filled the midst of you with violence, and you have sinned...".

    Question: Where was Lucifer when iniquity was found in him? Answer: in eternity.
    Question: Is there "merchandise" in eternity? Answer: No evidence.
    Question: To whom is the "they" referring? Either to the angels that seduced man to sin; or to men, themselves.
    Question: By what "spirit" does man commit violence? Answer: By the spirit of the one they are obeying: Lucifer.
    Question: Whose slave is man, when he obeys sin? Answer: Lucifer (the devil).
    Question: Who filled the spirit "you" with violence? Answer: the slaves of satan (before, he was only in iniquity).
    Question: When a slave murders another slave, who is responsible? Answer: The slave that committed the murder.
    Question: When a slave kills a "free man", who is responsible? Answer: The master of the slave! ( being a "free" entity).
    Question: Who killed Jesus (a "free man")? Answer: Slaves to sin.
    Question: Who is responsible for the murder of Jesus? Answer: Satan (Lucifer).

    "And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment. Of sin, because they believe not (unbelief) on me; of righteousness, because I go unto my Father (I will be resurrected); of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged."
    What is the sin that condemned satan; of which he was found guilty? The murder of Jesus Christ, a free man!
  5. The word merchandise is what he was selling, literally to travel for trading, a spice merchant - he was selling his idea i.e. rebellion, and that is the they it refers to, not other entities. In other words, the more he preached the worse he got. Just like when you choose to be negative about something and keep telling other about it, it consumes you with more negativity. So bad it got that it divided within him with cruel damage.

    And I have one point to contend: Jesus was not murdered, He freely gave His life, no one could take it from Him.

    John 10:17-18 (KJV) Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

    Also Satan's sin wasn't murder, but pride.

    Ezekiel 28:17 (KJV) Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

    Isaiah 14:12-15 (KJV) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

    Proverbs 14:3a (KJV) In the mouth of the foolish [is] a rod of pride...

    Psalms 59:12 (KJV) [For] the sin of their mouth [and] the words of their lips let them even be taken in their pride: and for cursing and lying [which] they speak.
  6. Thank you for your kind response and for taking the time! I will try to address some of your points.

    #1.) Does scripture ever point to a location called "eternal?"
    #2.) The Hebrew word translated merchandise in the King James version can also translate to trade. The question is, what was Lucifer's trade according to scripture?
    #3.) not sure on this third question, but I will study it out but I believe your right, its either men or Satan's angelic companions.

    Most of your other points I agree with;however, I am still not sure how this addresses my original question which is how has Satan sinned in heaven if there was no law? John 8:44 says Satan was a murderer from the beginning and a liar and the father of all lies (lies btw is the "merchandise" I believe Satan was peddling in heaven"). Again, Jesus says Satan is guilty of murder (thou shall not kill) lying (thou shalt not bare false witness) from the beginning. True, Satan is guilty of killing Jesus --this is the pinnacle of his sinful deeds, I believe, but it definitely is not His only sin nor his first sin.

  7. Thanks! :) I missed John 8:44 :( But I still hold to John 10:17-18 concerning Jesus NOT being murdered which is defined as the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. Jesus wasn't killed, He surrendered His life. Huge different and an important one.
  8. Amen. I look at it like this, Jesus surrendered his life,but Satan was the instrument in the murder. God allowed it, but he did not do the deed. For that reason Satan is guilty just as Judas is guilty in betraying our Savior. Most of all, we are guilty because it was our sins that put Jesus to the cross. I praise the Lord for his abundant mercy!
  9. _______________________________________________________

    I just have to respond to this post.
    Listen to the words of the Apostle Paul, on the Day of Pentecost ((being full of the Holy Spirit):

    Acts 2:36 __ "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God has made that same Jesus, whom you crucified both Lord and Christ."
    I am sorry to see that YOU have crucified the Lord Jesus! NOT! Peter was not speaking to those who were "saved", but to those who were listening to the gospel that saves! Peter said, "...whom YOU crucified..."! (I'm sorry: I don't mean you, personally).
    Those who have received the gospel are "...crucified..." with Jesus; and if we be crucified with him, we cannot be guilty of crucifying Him! The One who judges all things in righteousness has declared us, NOT GUILTY!
  10. Where do we find the name Lucifer in the Bible?
  11. You find him by name in Isa 14:12. He is also known as Satan (which translates "the enemy").

    God Bless,
  12. ________________________________________________________________________________

    Isaiah 14:12

  13. Not sure I disagree with you. I have to study that out. But it was our sins that put Him to the cross is all I am saying. Thanks for clarifying!
  14. the word is "heylel"...without even a Hebrew it means shining one and is not even a name...but how did they get to Lucifer...that is a huge stretch?
  15. I am not sure. Good question. Lucifer also means light bearer. In either case it is a noun with meaning and it gives us a little background into who Satan was.
  16. Thank you for your kind response and for taking the time! I will try to address some of your points.

    #1.) Does scripture ever point to a location called "eternal?"
    #2.) The Hebrew word translated merchandise in the King James version can also translate to trade. The question is, what was Lucifer's trade according to scripture?

    -- (#1)--
    II Cor. 12:2-4
    __ "I knew a man in Christ...such a one caught up to the third heaven...How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which is not lawful for a man to utter." The apostle Paul said he could not say whether it was in the body or spirit; and neither can I. But I can speculate that we are living in the first heaven, and the rest of the universe must be within the second heaven. If this is true, then eternity must envelop this universe, and we (this universe) must be but a very small speck in eternity, which is the third heaven: a speck that has a beginning and an end, seeing that we are enclosed in time.
    -- (#2)--
    I believe that God, through the prophet, is ascribing the attributes of satan to the King of Tyrus..

  17. Thanks. In point #1, the 3rd heaven is indeed a physical location. The 1st heaven is our atmosphere Gen 1:1, Gen 1:8, and the second heaven is space ,Gen 26:4 and the third heaven is of course where God lives, 2 Cor 12:2-4. But the location itself does not equal eternity for its inhabitants, Gods power is what gives eternal life.

    The rebuke against the King of Tyre is broken up into 2 parts. The first rebuke is indeed for the person that is known as the King of Tyre (Eze 28: 1-10):. The second rebuke is a pulling aside the veil and revealing the evil influence over the king of Tyre --which is none other then Satan himself (Eze 28 11-19). In it, the reader is to understand the origins of evil. This is magnificently accomplished by first pointing the reader to a pagan ruler while describing attributes that could never apply to the king let alone any human being. Like being perfect (Eze 28:12) or even dwelling in the Garden of Eden (Eze 28:13). He was an anointed Cherub that coverth (Eze 28:14). Basically he was in the very presence of God and God's highest ranking angel. (See Exo 25:19, Exo 25:40) Very fascinating!
  18. And so is "heaven" a place bigger than God in which He dwells or a place He created where in He manifests Himself for the sake of His creatures...where they can be with Him in His presence? Can anything be greater then the Eternal Himself?
  19. Misunderstanding heyal, Jerome used the term lux ferre (a term usually used for the planet venus) as "morning star" (not implied in the Hebrew which means shinning one) for the sake of the Latin speaking commoners...only then (without realizing it, or maybe he did) he brings in a confusion, because the Apocalypse called the Word/Son of God the bright and morning star (not referring to venus but to the light coming forth to dispel the darkness) and now some argue that Jesus is either Satan or the Bible is in error....only Jerome was in error (32 noted errors in the Vulgate the first is Genesis 3:15 hmmm?)...lux ferre then became Lucifer. So Lucifer is NOT the devil's name and is NOT in the Bible until the Hebrew is interpreted into the Greek and then interpreted into the Latin (the English Bibles with the word Easter another error)

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