The Bride of Christ
- Thread starter geralduk
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You are mixing two different entities Gerald. I would also assume that you are advocating that the church replaced Israel.
If I am wrong please correct my assumption.
Hello Major,
'Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee,
into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
And when they saw Him, they worshipped Him: but some doubted.
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
"All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father,
and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things
whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you alway,
even unto the end of the world.
Amen.'
(Mat 28:16-20)
Yes, indeed. It also has a future application, for we see not yet all things put under Him.
This will be fulfilled at the end of the age. Do you agree. Major?
* There is no record, for example, of the disciples ever baptizing in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Our Lord had been with them, following His resurrection, for 40 days, teaching them concerning the Kingdom.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
It is quite diffilcult to reply to each thread that jumps from one to another . and still keep a clear focus on the argument .
We were talking about the 10 virgins which I replied to and showed that the 5 foolish were barred from the "marriage" with the words "I know ye not"
The judgment of the wicked are barred from the kingdom with the words " I NEVER KNEW YOU"
There is more in the scriptures about the Bride of Christ than that one or even two verses you mentioned that give more light on the subject .
In truth most if not all "sound doctrines" have their root and beginnings in the book of beginnings the book of Genesis . and as in other matters the rest of scripture then piece by piece in divers ways and times develops the understanding of the matter in question.
For instance the "seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent " which then broadens out to the righteous line that lived by faith and the unrighteous line that did what was right in its own eyes and continued in sin first committed by Adam and Eve.
culminating then in the teaching of Jesus as to the kingdom of God being likened unto a good man that sowed good seed in his field etc.
and in the parables of the sower and the seed you have the "seed which is the Word of God" beign sown in the feild which is the world . and another seed sown of tares.
each as the parables progressed from seeds to the children of each seed.
The Bride is no exception . The last book is better understood by an understanding of the first book . For all that was 'sown' or began in the first book has its fulfilment and fruit in the last book .
What God in sundry times and divers ways spake by the prophets concerning the Son , was also in divers ways and in sundry times also spoken of the Bride .This I hope to show God willing as we walk on.
So I will not yet approach the last books mention of the Bride till we have laid a good enough foundation to our understanding from the rest of scripture.
In Christ
gerald
Hello again, Major,
Though you have quoted me, you have directed this to Gerald Himself, I believe. I hope that Gerald is not advocating that the church replaced Israel, for that would be so very wrong.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Two different entities?
No I do not advocate that the church replaced Israel because the scriptures do not substantiate such an assertion. Romans 8 to 11 if nothing else would say so as well as all the promises of God to the Jews and the fact that they are still here and identifiable as such.
So you will have to clarify what you mean by two different entities .
I believe the Bride will be made up of people from every tribe and nation of the world including Jews . But not primarily Jews but in the main gentiles.
There is clear teaching in scripture that the bride will be made up of mainly Gentiles .
The Jews as a nation and a people over and above any individuals will be saved in a night or a day "when they see Him whom they have pierced" and the Lord will deliver them from all their enemies.
But we are gettign too far ahead of ourselves and Im not going down that road .But just gave some indicators as to the future of the Jews as a NATION. In the hope to clear your mind as to thinking I believe the Church replaced Israel .
in Christ
gerald
Hello Gerald,
Yes, it is becoming difficult to keep focused on the subject of the thread, I agree. I apologies for the diversion from subject in my previous response to Major, by the way.
'The Bride,' is shown to us, as you say, in type, in Gen. 24. and great emphasis is placed on one important condition there, 'But', said Abraham to Eliezer, 'thou shalt go into my country and to my kindred and take a wife unto my son Isaac ... thou shalt take a wife for my son from thence.' (Gen. 24: 3,4,7,37,38)
Gentiles were expressly shut out when this typical wife was chosen; and Isaac, on receiving his bride, took her at once, 'into his mother Sarah's tent', so forming the ground of the type as spoken of in Gal. 4:21-31. Whereas, 'The Church' is made up of both Jew and Gentile, called out from among the nations. 'Rebekah is therefore representative of that great cloud of witnesses (the Old Testament saints), who in the old dispensation, sacrificed, as she did, all worldly advantages for the Lord's sake. It is for these He is preparing that , 'city which hath foundations', and of which He Himself is the Divine Architect.' (quote: 'Commentary on Revelation' by Dr Bullinger)
The ten virgins are representative of 'the wife' of Revelation 19, and not 'the bride' of chapter 21.
There is so very much to be studied in regard to this subject, isn't there Gerald, and a forum situation not the best place to do it.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
The kingdom of the heavenS? . While not wishing to start another branch of thinking I will have to address the rendition you used for we are clearly reading from different Bibles .
In mine it si the kingdom of heaveN.
For good reason .
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaveN and the earth .
Gen 2:1 thus the heavenS and the earth were finished ......
The heavenS of chapter 2 speak of the heavens of EARTH . As is the heaven where the birds fly or the firmiment between the waters above and below and the heaven where the stars are "for he made the stars also " Both these heavens are from gen 1:2 onwards where God is ONLY speaking of the EARTH .
For "in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth"
HEAVEN EARTH
verse 2 ) and the EARTH was without form and void ........
Verse 3 onwards is only speaking about the earth .
Thus in verse 8 of chapter 1 we have the heaven of earth as it were . then later when he "made the starrs also we have the other heaven of earth .
The first "heaven" then of chapter 1 verse 1 is the heaven where Gods throne was and is .
For it was not heaven that was in darkness but the earth .For that heaven "needs no sun or moon for God is the light thereof ."
Thus it is the kingdom of HEAVEN not heavens . For if we are BORNagain we are born of that heaven and not another .
and it that heaven that we desire and pray "thy will eb done on earth as it is in heaven "
I needed to answer that because if I did not then it will lead to confusion as to what heaven we are talking about .
Our bodies are a kingdom where Christ must rule .
For what makes a good citizen of any kingdom?
If not one by which its laws ,precepts and constitution is written in the heart of its people?
For if we do give lip service to it and only obey the externals (if we can) then we do so out of fear of the consequences rather than for the love of them.
Is not Jesus both saviour and King? is it not written that we are no longer debtors to the flesh but to God?
That the Spirit must rule not the flesh? Then our bodies are a kingdom as much as we are part of a body which is Christs body as much as we are a temple of the Holy Spirit .
Your church or my church is not THE whole church but it is the church whereever God has placed us as a church . But it is also part and member of that church which is His body the whole church and we are if His members one of another both as individuals and as individual churches.
"Then the kingdom of God is with in you "said Jesus Luke 17:21
It is inconceivable then that the kingdom of God that is within me will have different precepts and constitution than the one that is to come .Indeed shall we not be recognised if not by the world then by God when it is so manifested in our lives?
"By their fruits shall ye know them" From whence cometh this fruit? If not from the seed that is sown?
Have we not been translated from one kingdom to another ? "From the kingdom of darkness to the Kingdom of Gods dear Son"?
I would even say from one predestination to another predestination also . But many would not agree.
But the Gospel of God is more radical than we think.
and the world has yet to see "the Sons of God" "for the whole world groaneth waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God "
But there is coming a day when the Word of God "will be glorified among the heathen" For they will not like it ,they will hate it they will even seek its destruction and others will kill them "and think its Gods will" But that kingdom of God of heaven will be manifested clearly in the lives of Gods people .
For what is a true revival if not when the kingdom of God is manifested in the lives of Gods people ?
You may argue that the kingdom of God is not the kingdom of heaven.
Well I doubt it .
For whether you have the kingdom of heaven in heaven or the kingdom of God on earth they have but the same KING! and each in their part and function will glorify God .
and if by that verse you quoted as of a city descending from heaven as a Bride the new Jerusalem .Then Where is the Groom?
Will He not sit on the throne of David in Jerusalem and rule his people Israel ? and the nations with a rod of iron?
This is a glorious Gospel and our so great a Salvation has ;but it seems not gone far the letter 'S'.
in Christ
Gerald
The wife is but a married bride is she not?
The Lord does not have two wives .
The bride and a wife.
Again I have to remind you ,that the 10 virgins speak of all believers and not to a wife .
It is a message to the church as a whole and to all believers who are in Christ . "as chaste virgins" as Paul says it.
While a Forum is not ideal place at all . Given the lack of any or much teaching on the subject then it needs must be in some measure at least laid out.
in Christ
gerald
My apologies! You are correct. Yes, that is why I posed the question just to make sure we were all on the same page Biblically.
I just wanted to make sure we were all talking about the same thing Gerald.
TWO entities...(TWO things- different)...1. Church......2 Israel.
Yes Chris I certainly do. You and I believe in the "classic" explanation that says God said what the Bible recorded Him as saying and NOT what we wanted Him to say. It is our calling today to believe what was actually, literally said and explain that to all so that all can hear, believe and be saved. At least that is MY pursuit.
Didn't you grow in knowledge AFTER you were saved Gerald?
From the 1st post in the thread you said first that.......
"But the Bride of Christ is the primary objective of the age".
Then.........
"Then we have the twelve tribes of Israel".
BOOM! TWO.
I was taught that the 10 virgins related to the saved and the unsaved. When I was a babe in Christ .
and while the message in a limited sense can be used to the lost. I came to understand that it was primarily for the church and primarily for me as a christian.
So yes I have grown in knowledge that is that knowledge that has two legs . the other on being understanding.
in Christ
gerald
Am I not a disciple? Then He spoke to me as well. and as ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God and is good for correction,reproof and instruction in righteousness, then the whole Bible is a message from God to me and to all and there is nothing in it that is not profitable and instructive .
In Christ
gerald
The primary objective of this age is the bride of Christ and the coming of the Lord and she must get herself ready .
That is what the list of ministers to the church as in Ephesians primary job is ;to perfect the Bride .
My mention of the 12 tribes of Israel was in realation to THAT fact . Israels future and fullfilment of all those promises of God throughout the Old Testament comes after the Bride has gone.
Though we are already beginning to see Israel no longer 'wagging ' when the world barks .
Yet she has yet to face "Jacobs trouble" and what looks like another slaughter .But God will keep a remnent as promised.
This post is about the Bride of Christ . and while there will be some Jews in the bride ,primarily she will be made up mostly of gentiles.
in Christ
gerald
I understand the need that you have to want to be that. I have the same need. However, COULD it be that the 11 actually completed their calling from Jesus????
Notice that Jesus gave this command only to the eleven disciples in Mark 16:14. Confirm that with Matthew 28:16-20; Acts 1:1-8. Nowhere in the Bible are New Testament believers taught that they must go into all the world and preach the gospel to every person.
Second, the eleven disciples were specially empowered by the Holy Spirit with miraculous signs and abilities so that they might accomplish Jesus' command Mark 16:17-20; Acts 2:1-4; Acts 3:1-7.
Third, the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ accomplished the mission during their lifetimes in the first century A.D. Notice what Mark 16:20 plainly states:
"And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following." Amen.
The Apostle Paul confirms the fulfillment of the Great Commission in Colossians 1:23:
"… the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven."
I am not saying they did, only that it be considered.
If not how do we explain the verses given?
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